Who is the Greatest Sportsman of All Time?

[Muloghonto]

Well I'm not a Nadal or Fed fan, I'm a Novak and Delpo man and you know this. But I said time and time again H2H means nothing in tennis. Slams mean everything. So until Djokovic wins 14 slams he will not be equal to or better than Nadal. Until Nadal wins 17 slams he will not be better than or equal to Federer. Slam count is all that matters. Everything else is insignificant. Usain Bolt? He's up there, but at the moment I'm not sure he's achieved as much in his own sports as say Jack Nicklaus has.

You have to be kidding me. Bolt is easily the bradman of 100m dashes. Before bolt, there were like 20 instances or so of 100m being run in 9.9 seconds or better. Bolt alone has 30 9.85 or better. 30!. And incase you wanna argue about modern sports meds trainings etc. , total# of times 100m has been run in less than 9.9 seconds in last ten years is like 20 times. Thats definitely bradmansque. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[Raghav_12]

You have to be kidding me. Bolt is easily the bradman of 100m dashes. Before bolt, there were like 20 instances or so of 100m being run in 9.9 seconds or better. Bolt alone has 30 9.85 or better. 30!. And incase you wanna argue about modern sports meds trainings etc. , total# of times 100m has been run in less than 9.9 seconds in last ten years is like 20 times. Thats definitely bradmansque. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

What he has done in 200m is equaly incredible or even more. There was just one time less than 19.50. (19.32 by Michael Johnson who himself could be a contender of all time great). For him it is is like routine.

[zep1706]

Usain Bolt is indeed a firm contender.

[Gollum]

Gary Kasparov. Chess is the most global game in the world, even more than football. FIDE is probably the only sports federation with presence in 190+ countries. Gary is still the youngest world champion ever and he was world champ for 15 years and world no 1 from 1984 to 2005(when he retired). He adapted his game through the years to remain above his peers from Korchnoi to Karpov to Anand. Never has there been a more dominating champ than him for such a long period of time. He fulfills all criteria: 1. Chess is a very popular game and has presence in all countries(more than squash, cricket, football, tennis, F1, golf etc) 2. Longevity and amazing consistency. Was World Champ for 15 years and no 1 for 21 years. Name me another guy who was no 1 in his/her sport for that long. 3. Amazing peak. At his peak the difference in ELO between world no 1 and no 2 was similar to that between no 2 and no 50. That is unimaginable, even more than Bradman's 99.94. Never has any athlete been so much better than his rivals. 4.Was dominant in the toughest era in his sport. Won super tournaments every year between 1983 to 2005. Similar to winning grand slams every year for 20+ years. Karpov- 42 supertourneys Kasparov-38 Anand-26 Carlsen-24 Kramnik-21 Topalov-20. Karpov's career stretched for 40+ years and in the initial part of his career(1975-84) he had no worthy rival to speak of. Fischer was in obscurity, Kasaprov was yet to arrive, and his only close competitor was Korchnoi who was 20 years elder to him and level below(he won 30 of his 42 before 1984). Carlsen has 24 but these days there are many top level tournaments and the championship cycle is very well organized. 10-20 years back there was a tug of war between FIDE and PCA, World Championship format was stretched out, unpredictable and exhausting and there were very few super tourneys. Kasparov played very few super tourneys in his career and had to contend with the 90s generation, probably the strongest group of players playing at the same time(comparable to today's men's tennis or 90s cricket) in the last 100 years of chess. Kasparov after vanquishing Karpov had to contend with Anand, Kramnik, Ivanchuk, Topalov, Kamsky, Gelfand, Adams, Shirov,Short etc the strongest era chess has known. Carlsen has it easy these days with Anand, Kramnik, Topalov too old and the newer generation too weak. 5. Has positive H2H against all his top rivals- Karpov, Anand, Kramnik, Topalov, Ivanchuk, Short etc and against Gelfand, Shirov, Adams he has never lost. DOMINATION 6. Changing the game forever. Probably the 1st player to embrace computers in his preparation, worked with leading computer programmers in the late 80s/early 90s to create the early chess programs, set the platform for future advent of strong chess engines. Those days the chess programs were weak compared to GMs but today probably an android device will kick the ass of the World Champion 9/10 times. Set trends in chess opening which other top players would follow, replaced the dull,boring strategic style of play which was popular in the 70s,80s(except Tal :winky:) to aggressive, dynamic, highly tactical play. Brought in the concept of the importance of physical fitness in the mental game. His training regime was mindblowing, at his peak he could run half marathons in 1 hr:15 minutes and could do 300 consecutive push ups. Only after him did other players take physical training so seriously. 7. Non sporting legacy. If someone says chess the 1st image to come to mind is Kasparov but his non sporting legacy too is something to be envied. Putin's primary opposition in Russia, leading human rights activist, great debater, motivational speaker, entrepreneur, thinker and what not. Probably the most electrifying man from the world of sports. His presence and charisma will dwarf the likes of Pele, Maradona, Sachin, Jordan, Federer etc who simply do not have the personality Gary has.

[Cricketics]

Useless to compare sportsmen around other sports. If we do that then Michael Phelps become the greatest ever olympian since he has most medals. However Usain Bolt is probably equally good but does not have as many medal categories. Hence, let us bot worry about comparing players from different sports.

[FischerTal]

Gary Kasparov. Chess is the most global game in the world, even more than football. FIDE is probably the only sports federation with presence in 190+ countries. Gary is still the youngest world champion ever and he was world champ for 15 years and world no 1 from 1984 to 2005(when he retired). He adapted his game through the years to remain above his peers from Korchnoi to Karpov to Anand. Never has there been a more dominating champ than him for such a long period of time. He fulfills all criteria: 1. Chess is a very popular game and has presence in all countries(more than squash, cricket, football, tennis, F1, golf etc) 2. Longevity and amazing consistency. Was World Champ for 15 years and no 1 for 21 years. Name me another guy who was no 1 in his/her sport for that long. 3. Amazing peak. At his peak the difference in ELO between world no 1 and no 2 was similar to that between no 2 and no 50. That is unimaginable, even more than Bradman's 99.94. Never has any athlete been so much better than his rivals. 4.Was dominant in the toughest era in his sport. Won super tournaments every year between 1983 to 2005. Similar to winning grand slams every year for 20+ years. Karpov- 42 supertourneys Kasparov-38 Anand-26 Carlsen-24 Kramnik-21 Topalov-20. Karpov's career stretched for 40+ years and in the initial part of his career(1975-84) he had no worthy rival to speak of. Fischer was in obscurity, Kasaprov was yet to arrive, and his only close competitor was Korchnoi who was 20 years elder to him and level below(he won 30 of his 42 before 1984). Carlsen has 24 but these days there are many top level tournaments and the championship cycle is very well organized. 10-20 years back there was a tug of war between FIDE and PCA, World Championship format was stretched out, unpredictable and exhausting and there were very few super tourneys. Kasparov played very few super tourneys in his career and had to contend with the 90s generation, probably the strongest group of players playing at the same time(comparable to today's men's tennis or 90s cricket) in the last 100 years of chess. Kasparov after vanquishing Karpov had to contend with Anand, Kramnik, Ivanchuk, Topalov, Kamsky, Gelfand, Adams, Shirov,Short etc the strongest era chess has known. Carlsen has it easy these days with Anand, Kramnik, Topalov too old and the newer generation too weak. 5. Has positive H2H against all his top rivals- Karpov, Anand, Kramnik, Topalov, Ivanchuk, Short etc and against Gelfand, Shirov, Adams he has never lost. DOMINATION 6. Changing the game forever. Probably the 1st player to embrace computers in his preparation, worked with leading computer programmers in the late 80s/early 90s to create the early chess programs, set the platform for future advent of strong chess engines. Those days the chess programs were weak compared to GMs but today probably an android device will kick the ass of the World Champion 9/10 times. Set trends in chess opening which other top players would follow, replaced the dull,boring strategic style of play which was popular in the 70s,80s(except Tal :winky:) to aggressive, dynamic, highly tactical play. Brought in the concept of the importance of physical fitness in the mental game. His training regime was mindblowing, at his peak he could run half marathons in 1 hr:15 minutes and could do 300 consecutive push ups. Only after him did other players take physical training so seriously. 7. Non sporting legacy. If someone says chess the 1st image to come to mind is Kasparov but his non sporting legacy too is something to be envied. Putin's primary opposition in Russia, leading human rights activist, great debater, motivational speaker, entrepreneur, thinker and what not. Probably the most electrifying man from the world of sports. His presence and charisma will dwarf the likes of Pele, Maradona, Sachin, Jordan, Federer etc who simply do not have the personality Gary has.

Carlsen will be number one by the end of his career

[India-KXIP fan]

This is impossible.... Anyways my current list, ranking changes every week :giggle: 1. Tendulkar 2. C. Ronaldo 3. Messi 4. Mayweather 5. Bolt 6. Federer 7. Nadal 8. Ali 9. Schumacher 10. Carlsen Many sports not accounted for, this is why these are flawed.

[Gollum]

Carlsen will be number one by the end of his career

He is lucky that there isn't any serious rival to topple him. His challenger on both occasions was a middle aged, near retiring Anand. 15 year old Wei Yi(ELO 2715) has the potential to stop him but can't see the likes of Caruana, Nakamura, Giri, Karjakin, Grischuk stopping him. Kasparov on the other hand had serious rivals in Karpov and the 90s generation. Kasparov is like 90s Sachin, Carlsen is like today's Sanga.:beee:

[FischerTal]

He is lucky that there isn't any serious rival to topple him. His challenger on both occasions was a middle aged, near retiring Anand. 15 year old Wei Yi(ELO 2715) has the potential to stop him but can't see the likes of Caruana, Nakamura, Giri, Krjakin, Grischuk stopping him. Kasparov on the other hand had serious rivals in Karpov and the 90s generation. Kasparov is like 90s Sachin, Carlsen is like today's Sanga.:beee:

Richard rapport is one to watch out for as well. From India, I don't see any new world class gms

[Detonator]

This is impossible.... Anyways my current list, ranking changes every week :giggle: 1. Tendulkar 2. Ronaldo 3. Messi 4. Mayweather 5. Bolt 6. Federer 7. Nadal 8. Ali 9. Schumacher 10. Carlsen Many sports not accounted for, this is why these are flawed.

Mayweather ??? dood Sugar ray Robinson is THE boxer. Even other Sugar ray leo is bit better than floyd

[India-KXIP fan]

Mayweather ??? dood Sugar ray Robinson is THE boxer. Even other Sugar ray leo is bit better than floyd

You know alot more than I do, but that's my opinion. You cannot put down someone on top for 2 decades. :two_thumbs_up: Also Bradman, Robinson have things in common. I prefer SRT to Bradman like I prefer any modern athlete to any past athlete. Just way I see it. Too many things were different back then. They are the best of their eras though. Many experts say Bradman, Robinson are the best at their sport. But Robinson did fight like once every month, sometimes twice in a few weeks, many guys multiple times. Ridiculous really, its way too different now to compare. Like I said you can never have a correct answer to these questions, it's all subjective.

[Chalks]

Walter Lindrum is a candidate. If chess can be considered a sport, so can billiards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Lindrum

[Detonator]

You know alot more than I do' date=' but that's my opinion. You cannot put down someone on top for 2 decades. :two_thumbs_up:[/quote'] Not like that dood. :icflove: Floyd's number of fights tells a story. Even Manny played almost 20 more fights than Floyd in 2 decades. Mayweather has evaded too many fights to count to keep his record. Every one evades, but on rare cases. Even Mhd Ali refused to give George Foreman a rematch. Heck even Tyson did not want to face a 45 yr old Foreman.

[Sachin=GOD]

It is impossible to compare people across sports. But if we are only talking about impact then Goddy, Mohd Ali, Garry Kasparov, Usain Bolt, Pele are some of the names that come to mind.

[India-KXIP fan]

Not like that dood. :icflove: Floyd's number of fights tells a story. Even Manny played almost 20 more fights than Floyd in 2 decades. Mayweather has evaded too many fights to count to keep his record. Every one evades, but on rare cases. Even Mhd Ali refused to give George Foreman a rematch. Heck even Tyson did not want to face a 45 yr old Foreman.

No real big names bar Manny evaded up until now. Manny had 30+ fights in the Philippines, they happened quicker. Not as many in the last decade or so since moving to America. btw my ranking assumes Mayweather wins this weekend. Past prime or not, win is a win.

[mishra]

Pele. Maradona, Sachin, Ali, Federer and may be Schumacher. People globally, will mention them for ages to come. Rest all can be put in for sake of argument

[mishra]

Some might say Federer. Others Ali. You could have some Americans argue Phelps or Jordan. I wanted to put Jack Nicklaus out there but then I just read and seen some documentaries on Jehangir Khan. Squash may not be the most popular sport, not as many people play it as Tennis or Golf, so the competition isn't anywhere near as fierce. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahangir_Khan But Jehangir Khan did something I doubt anyone will ever do in any sport or even come close to replicating. 555 wins in a row stretching 6 years in very physically demanding sports. 555!!! FIVE HUNDRED AND FIFTY FIVE MATCH STREAK. It makes Nadal's dominance at RG seem insignificant in comparison. If this guy was American or British, they would be making movies about him. What do you think? Could it be Nicklaus? Federer? Bradman?

Who? hardly anyone plays squash. More people play kho kho http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kho_kho

[Gollum]

Pele. Maradona, Sachin, Ali, Federer and may be Schumacher. People globally, will mention them for ages to come. Rest all can be put in for sake of argument

Very few outside Commonwealth countries would have ever heard of Sachin or cricket for that matter. Even Anand is more known globally than Sachin.

[mishra]

Very few outside Commonwealth countries would have ever heard of Sachin or cricket for that matter. Even Anand is more known globally than Sachin.

True, A lot of villagers in india (over 65% Indians or china) dont know anything about all the names. But its legacy these guys have left, Once people get educated about these sports, They will automatically talk about these players. Kasporov vs Anand is a tough choice

[India-KXIP fan]

There was a reason I didn't mention his name in the original post. He's not even India's greatest sportsman or the greatest cricket player of all time. Those titles belong to Dhyan Chand and Don Bradman respectively. The way you rubbish squash and 555 consecutive wins is what I'd expect. Getting 100% in the sub-continent might be something that's routine, but at least here in the UK, A Level and Degree level maths is exceptionally difficult. It also helps Tendulkar that he plays cricket, the most watched sport in India and the sub-continent. If Tendulkar had achieved similar stats in another sport, no one would ever be arguing that he is greater than Don Bradman or Dhyan Chand. Tendulkar has scored a heck of a lot of international runs, but that record isn't one that's unbeatable. When you consider Sanga had a career of 15 years and scored 27800 runs and Tendulkar scored his 34400 in 24, it really shows two things to me. Tendulkar had incredible longevity, but Tendulkar's run record is nowhere near as out of reach some people say. Dhyan Chand, the wizard himself is arguably the greatest hockey player of all time, the reason you might argue is not because of what he did it's because of how he did it, we don't have the footage to see those records he smashed or the way he took India to 3 Olympic Titles in a row.

Balbir Singh= Chand, both arguably GOAT Hockey players. Can't believe Balbir is overlooked in Indian Hockey, scored 5 goals in gold medal match, 2 in another gold medal match, was captain in one campaign, 3 olympic golds... but SRT is way ahead of both Still though wtf at the history books...Chand is somehow miles ahead of Balbir when it should be way closer. Who writes these :facepalm:

London Olympics (1948) Singh's first appearance at the 1948 Summer Olympics was in the second match, against Argentina. In this match he scored six goals, including a hat trick. India won 9–1. He also played in the final match against Britain, which was the first encounter between India and Britain at the Olympics. Singh scored the first two goals and India won by 4–0. Helsinki Olympics (1952) Singh was vice-captain of 1952 Olympic team, with K. D. Singh as the Captain. Balbir was India's flag bearer in the opening ceremony. He scored a hat trick against Britain in semifinal, which India won 3–1. He scored five goals in India's 6–1 win against the Netherlands setting a new Olympic record for most goals scored by an individual in an Olympic final in men's field hockey. The previous holder of this record was England's Reggie Pridmore with his four goals in England's 8-1 victory over Ireland in the 1908 Olympic final. Singh scored nine of the India's total 13 goals at the Helsinki Olympics, 69.23% of the team's goals. Melbourne Olympics (1956) Singh, captain of the 1956 Olympic team, scored five goals in the opening match against Afghanistan, but was then injured. Randhir Singh Gentle captained the rest of the group matches. Singh had to skip the group matches, but played in the semifinal and the final. India won the final match against Pakistan with a result of 1–0.

Summary from wikipedia. Pretty good resume to challenge Chand as India's greatest Olympian. Not SRT level at all but for Hockey right up there. :nice: