beetle Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 43 minutes ago, someone said: What a random rant. I guess we should all just convert as we will automatically become sane, thinking people according to you. And what is this shifting goalposts? You can't stay on topic and keep talking about other stuffs. And you don't represent all women. Back on topic, you understand that the deity itself is protected by our constitution, and has rights. Next, the temple doesn't practice exclusivity, and there are women groups who support them. The article in this thread has some very nice points summary. And the outcome and its implications could mean tomorrow another can say "he wants to offer chicken to Lord Ganesha citing Article 25(1) and so on" (as mentioned in the article). So it's not as black and white as you foolishly try to tell. Well the thread gives a good indication how hindu men value the basic rights of hindu women. SC says women can enter and the responses.. What about mecca ? What is some one offers chicken ? Seriously makes one wonder about the version of faith . I am done with this thread. You guys can continue with the chest beating and feeling outraged . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, beetle said: Well the thread gives a good indication how hindu men value the basic rights of hindu women. SC says women can enter and the responses.. What about mecca ? What is some one offers chicken ? Seriously makes one wonder about the version of faith . I am done with this thread. You guys can continue with the chest beating and feeling outraged . You can't think straight, can't stick to topic. Your rants doesn't make you right. And again, you don;t represent Hindu women. There are women who support this case, so you can keep bashing men, and religion, but that will not make you right. Seriously, your rants makes me wonder about your mental state... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, someone said: You can't think straight, can't stick to topic. Your rants doesn't make you right. And again, you don;t represent Hindu women. There are women who support this case, so you can keep bashing men, and religion, but that will not make you right. Seriously, your rants makes me wonder about your mental state... There is no need to make personal comments. Just because some women support the cause does not mean the women denied do not want to enter. True, I do not represent all women. You do not represent any women . Those women who support the case don't represent all women . Most older women are the ones who treat the the younger women like untouchables and teach them that is the right way . Left go them ,women would be living in dark ages forever . Older women and other women who support the case can believe what they believe. They should not force other women to believe the same . Edited July 31, 2018 by beetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, beetle said: There is no need to make personal comments. Just because some women support the cause does not mean the women denied do not want to enter. You do not represent any women and those women don't represent all women . Most older women are the ones who treat the the younger women like untouchables and teach them that is the right way . Left go them ,women would be living in dark ages forever . Older women and other women who support the case can believe what they believe. They should not force other women to believe the same . So stick to the topic. Don't come here bashing men and religion... and don't make it like you are the smart women, while others just are dumb who treat other women unfairly. That's another rant from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, someone said: So stick to the topic. Don't come here bashing men and religion... and don't make it like you are the smart women, while others just are dumb who treat other women unfairly. That's another rant from you. May be you should first learn basic etiquette of discussion . Making personal attacks is not called discussion. This is a thread on the topic and it is being discussed .If you can't take it, you should stay out of it instead of attacking the person discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, beetle said: May be you should first learn basic etiquette of discussion . Making personal attacks is not called discussion. This is a thread on the topic and it is being discussed .If you can't take it, you should stay out of it instead of attacking the person discussing. I guess you don't even understand your own posts. You keep bashing men, religion, and now other woman. You really hate everybody except yourself. Obviously, it's gonna be pointless discussion with you. Quit taking a high ground. Stick to topic and discuss on actual things. There are enough points already mentioned to support the cause. Either offer a counter, else just quiet down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, someone said: I guess you don't even understand your own posts. You keep bashing men, religion, and now other woman. You really hate everybody except yourself. Obviously, it's gonna be pointless discussion with you. Quit taking a high ground. Stick to topic and discuss on actual things. There are enough points already mentioned to support the cause. Either offer a counter, else just quiet down. I am here because I was tagged. You are here for personal attack. I have already presents my views. You don't like them...you can ignore them . You don't like me as a poster, there is an ignore option . You can use it. I can't because I have to read posts to keep a check on people who make personal attacks . Edited July 31, 2018 by beetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 This whole angle of equality in this issue is bogus. Just because the feminazis won in case Haji Ali, they want to monkey-balance with a corresponding Hindu issue. Haji Ali thinks all women are impure and hence were barred. In case of Sabarimala, women are not banned, only certain age because of a celibate deity. You call it regressive, I call it faith/tradition and that is to be protected just like we protect numerous minority customs and traditions under the same law. They can't win this case on the same grounds as Haji Ali. No woman is wanting to go to Sabarimala and is held back because of this restrictions. If they believe in the deity, they are ready to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, beetle said: I am here because I was tagged. You are here for personal attack. I have already presents my views. You don't like them...you can ignore them . You don't like me as a poster, there is an ignore option . You can use it. I can't because I have to read posts to keep a check on people who make personal attacks . You are here because you are only bashing men, religion and other woman. At least be honest with yourself. Of course, I have to question your sanity as you are on full rant mode. Plus I mentioned some legality points on this case to which you have no answer. This topic isn't about you, so stop hating everybody else. Stick to topic, is again my last respond to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 hours ago, someone said: Back on topic, you understand that the deity itself is protected by our constitution, and has rights. Next, the temple doesn't practice exclusivity, and there are women groups who support them. The article in this thread has some very nice points summary. And the outcome and its implications could mean tomorrow another can say "he wants to offer chicken to Lord Ganesha citing Article 25(1) and so on" (as mentioned in the article). Firstly...they are not your points. They are all over the net. If the deity has constitutional rights....then the SC is the best place to decide. ....just like the individual rights if people. Temple does practice exclusivity.....the exclusion of women in reproductive age . That is exclusivity. The women who support the case are within their right to support as are the people fighting for entry for all. Like I wrote...they should have gone with the ' celibate deity ' angle from the begining but everybody knows that is not the only reason. Why else did the temple board member gleefully said that women will be allowed when they can scan women to check if they are menstruating. It has always been about that. There I am done with 'your' summary points. I don't hate men....just the ones who think they are thekedaars of women. I don't hate religion....just question it at times like most people . I don't hate women....just the kind who feel entitled to suppress other women in the name of tradition. I am done now. sarcastic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Personal attack again. Wow...the sign of great debating minds. Having read your posting record....I am not really surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, beetle said: Firstly...they are not your points. They are all over the net. If the deity has constitutional rights....then the SC is the best place to decide. ....just like the individual rights if people. Temple does practice exclusivity.....the exclusion of women in reproductive age . That is exclusivity. The women who support the case are within their right to support as are the people fighting for entry for all. Like I wrote...they should have gone with the ' celibate deity ' angle from the begining but everybody knows that is not the only reason. Why else did the temple board member gleefully said that women will be allowed when they can scan women to check if they are menstruating. It has always been about that. It's interesting that one side has presented literature, supporting documents, statements based on constitution while another side has none other than the equality card. You do understand there are festivals and temples where men aren't allowed. But hey, don't let facts corrupt your mind. Your quotes that how men, the religion and other women are evil, shows the deep hatred you have for others. That's the personal attack. You can't think straight, and can only shift goalposts. Edited August 1, 2018 by beetle The forum/ thread is not your personal property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Who Aiyappa again? Forgive me for my ignorance. Why this deity needs to be worshiped again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, dial_100 said: Who Aiyappa again? Forgive me for my ignorance. Why this deity needs to be worshiped again? Don't know if your question is rhetorical, but read this link to get more information. http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/guest-column/sabarimala-in-defence-of-tradition He is believed to born out of Shiva and Vishnu unison after Vishnu used Mohini mayavatar to destroy Bhasmasura. Shiva got attracted to Mohini and that's how Aiyappa was born. It is a myth to unite the Vashnavaites and Shivites who were fighting a lot in olden times in south India. He is believed to be celibate and hence women who are capable of giving birth are not allowed. Men take a vow of not eating meat or drink alcohol or even smoke for 44 days before taking this pilgrimage on bare foot to climb the sabrimala mountain in KeralaTN border. This happens during December. The custom is very popular among middle and lower class people all over south India. Among famous people, singer KJ Yesudas is a famous follower and has sung quite a few Aiyappa bhajans. I am surprised to hear this god is not known in the rest of India. Edited August 1, 2018 by coffee_rules dial_100 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 10 hours ago, dial_100 said: Who Aiyappa again? Forgive me for my ignorance. Why this deity needs to be worshiped again? Forgive me my ignorance but why does any deity or any God or any Goddamn thing needs to be worshipped again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 46 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Don't know if your question is rhetorical, but read this link to get more information. http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/guest-column/sabarimala-in-defence-of-tradition He is believed to born out of Shiva and Vishnu unison after Vishnu used Mohini mayavatar to destroy Bhasmasura. Shiva got attracted to Mohini and that's how Aiyappa was born. It is a myth to unite the Vashnavaites and Shivites who were fighting a lot in olden times in south India. He is believed to be celibate and hence women who are capable of giving birth are not allowed. Men take a vow of not eating meat or drink alcohol or even smoke for 44 days before taking this pilgrimage on bare foot to climb the sabrimala mountain in KeralaTN border. This happens during December. The custom is very popular among middle and lower class people all over south India. Among famous people, singer KJ Yesudas is a famous follower and has sung quite a few Aiyappa bhajans. I am surprised to hear this god is not known in the rest of India. Nah no worshipping of Aiyappa up north. Heack I doubt anyone even have heard the name before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: Don't know if your question is rhetorical, but read this link to get more information. http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/guest-column/sabarimala-in-defence-of-tradition He is believed to born out of Shiva and Vishnu unison after Vishnu used Mohini mayavatar to destroy Bhasmasura. Shiva got attracted to Mohini and that's how Aiyappa was born. It is a myth to unite the Vashnavaites and Shivites who were fighting a lot in olden times in south India. He is believed to be celibate and hence women who are capable of giving birth are not allowed. Men take a vow of not eating meat or drink alcohol or even smoke for 44 days before taking this pilgrimage on bare foot to climb the sabrimala mountain in KeralaTN border. This happens during December. The custom is very popular among middle and lower class people all over south India. Among famous people, singer KJ Yesudas is a famous follower and has sung quite a few Aiyappa bhajans. I am surprised to hear this god is not known in the rest of India. Ah. @coffee_rules Thanks for the explanation. No rhetorics here. I dont do that sort of stuff on forums or real life. I got it now. Surprisingly i never heard it before. Would it be part of Vishnu Puran by any chance or Shiv Puran? I just read the whole thing. again I ask your forgiveness for my ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Stradlater said: Forgive me my ignorance but why does any deity or any God or any Goddamn thing needs to be worshipped again? I dont have answer for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 46 minutes ago, dial_100 said: Ah. @coffee_rules Thanks for the explanation. No rhetorics here. I dont do that sort of stuff on forums or real life. I got it now. Surprisingly i never heard it before. Would it be part of Vishnu Puran by any chance or Shiv Puran? I just read the whole thing. again I ask your forgiveness for my ignorance. No, it is not part of Vishnu/Shiva Purana. There are multiple theories of the deity's origin, there are some references to Sri Bhutanatha Purana where it could be argued that Aiyappa and some brahminical deity are the same, it is folklore. Hinduism adopts gods based on Purana or even local customs and traditions (what British called as tribal) - Aiyappa, Kali are some examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stradlater said: Forgive me my ignorance but why does any deity or any God or any Goddamn thing needs to be worshipped again? Hinduism believes in the oneness of universe with man and every part of nature is to be respected for us to persevere. This respect manifests as worship, coupled with thousands of years of rituals which were adopted by each generation. Edited August 1, 2018 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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