Is Ashwin heading towards the league of the great Kapil Dev?

[maniac]

^ @Cricketics shortball yes....the famous wi style nataraj pull shot was made famous by Kapil Dev 

[urnotserious]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

How many spin bowling alrounder we had? Alorunder is alrounder, does not matter whether pacer or a spinner and why you bring Pandya into this. He has not even played a test yet. Be will come close or not can only be decided once he plays for a length time.

Think you're forgetting the effervescent Sunil Joshi. 

[velu]

dont forget kapil won a WC like our very own MSD

 

[Cricketics]

6 minutes ago, maniac said:

I actively started watching cricket as a fan from 1991...by that I mean with a full understanding of what's going on...even though I had vague memories of some games as a kid from a few years before. I remember the video of his 4 6s to avoid follow on against hemmings and few other things and mind you not on YouTube.

 

1991-1992 was almost the start of decline of kapil Dev but still he was going strength to strength...he was brilliant in Australia in the b&h series,World Cup in patches and the test matches( those days tests were only highlights on Doordarshan)

 

I did not see the test and I can never find a you tube video of this but scoring a 100 against Donald and co in 92 in those days on those South African pitches adds to his legacy. For me not waqar, not wasim, not Ambrose, not Walsh but Donald was the most feared bowler because by 1991 on speed alone those were a notch below Donald by then. 

 

He he was struggling to get wickets but still he would have an economy of 2 or 3 in the first 5-6 overs in Odis and always almost get the early breakthrough in tests.

 

I remember watching live the moment he became the highest ODI wicket taker in the world(I think in the sharjah game) and then the highest test wicket taker in srilanka.

 

now sure he might have overstayed to achieve this much like sachin's 100 100s but as a young kid watching an Indian bowler let alone an Indian fast bowler have these records was surreal.

 

he was the highest odI and test wicket taker for a while before wasim overtook him almost pretty soon and Walsh a bit later.

 

I saw his hitting in that World Cup game against pak in that famous partnership with sachin who went on to win his first of 3 man of the matches against Pakistan in world cups. One of the 6s he hit on that huge ground is still etched in my memory.

 

And to add to this already all this legacy built around his World Cup victory and his 175* at turnbtidge wells Kapil was my first sporting super hero just like sachin is to a lot of kids who stared watching say even from the late 90s even though missing a decade of his greatness.

 

surprisingly 2 of my most favorite cricketeing heroes appeared for the last time on a cricketing field against westindies.

 

Dhoni who was our 2nd best MVP after Kapil will be replaced but to replace Kapil Dev will take some doing...hell it has been 22 years since his retirement and we haven't even come close.

 

Top Post this 

 

I can just picturize how good Kapil was batting. I remember growing up in 90s and watching most of those games and moments which you shared on the show called Cricket Classics on star sports. You might have seen it too.

 

Glad you brought up that South Africa tour and 1992 wc. Kapil does have in his record some amazing odi knocks, including 175 against Zimbabwe when we were in deep trouble and doomed at 17/5. 

 

Ashwin hasn't really had a great ODI career with the bat so Kapil is still miles ahead of Ashwin as ODI player, but then Kapil himself had just 24 run average in ODI's. I think it was allright for odi's during those days as the ODI game was still developing. 

[Muloghonto]

5 hours ago, kubrickian said:

Ashwin is certainly second best to Kapil bar none from India. He already averages around 35 with the bat and under 25 with the ball after 40 tests which is phenomenal. He still has to achieve a lot to be considered among the league of great all rounders like Kapil, Hadlee, Imran, Botham etc.

 

If he can end up with 400+ wickets and 4000 runs, he will belong there and he is certainly headed in that direction. I can certainly see him doing lot better in England. In SA and Aus, perhaps he needs to modify his action or game plan a bit. But good thing about Ashwin is that he is damn smart and he can certainly learn and adapt.

Ahem. Vinoo Mankad.

I think Ashwin will go past Mankad in his career as an allrounder, but right now, i think Mankad was a better allrounder.

[MCcricket]

Kapil is an all time great so will Assign be one, scary thing is Ashwin is still young and will improve more, especially bowling outside the subcontinent, his batting is very good, probably a better technical batsmen.

 

Also Ashwin plays with responsibility n plays a patient n match saving know more often, whereas paaji used to hit out.Ashwin will have better stats by the time he retires but both are diff one a seamer all rounder n one a spinner, it's harder to be a Kapil then Ashwin but both immensely talented.

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, speedster said:

Absolutely, he was our main bowler and he won us matches in 80's with very little support at the other end, the likes of Binny senior, Madan Lal etc were not match winners by any stretch of the imagination, while Kapil Dev's bowling average worsened in the later part of his career, he was a true match winner for us with the ball in all conditions. With bat it is said that his technique wasn't great but he has centuries in West Indies (the pitches were a lot different then!), South Africa and England in test matches and added to all this his excellent fielding. Ashwin is doing quite well but he has a long way to go yet

It's just a perception that pitches were a lot different. They were not.

[rkt.india]

6 hours ago, Cricketics said:

How much you saw him live? He could play short ball easily?  Hitting of course from what it looks like, does not seem to be Ashwin's strength as he likes to drive etc and rotate more. How about his centuries he scored overseas. Those must have needed some good grinding and proper test cricket batting those times. Especially in South Africa and West Imdies where bowlers would keep bouncing the ball without any limit. 

Where did I say he was weak against short ball. 

[Mariyam]

Kapil Dev batted well even outside of India. Can Ashwin boast of this?

 

I feel if pressed to be an all rounder, Ashwin will go the Irfan Pathan way, ie mediocre at both. He should rather continue being a specialist bowler who once in a while bats well.

[gattaca]

33 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Kapil Dev batted well even outside of India. Can Ashwin boast of this?

 

I feel if pressed to be an all rounder, Ashwin will go the Irfan Pathan way, ie mediocre at both. He should rather continue being a specialist bowler who once in a while bats well.

The problem with Pathan was he was forced up the order because of stupid chappel not liking senior players. Had he been kept down the order and asked to concentrate more on bowling he would have been fine.

[gakgupta]

Ashwin is the best allrounder India had from last 20 years and he is the best test allrounder in the world right now....

But he is becoming obese. He needs to take a tip or 2 from kohli and work on his fitness...

He looks 40 year old and moving like a elephant on the field...

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

[MechEng]

I'd say even better than Kapil paaji.

[Muloghonto]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Muloghonto

[Muloghonto]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

It's just a perception that pitches were a lot different. They were not.

Sorry, but the pitches in the west Indies were a lot different than they are today- so were Australia.  They were a lot more bouncy and in the caribbean, except for 4th & 5th day at Trinidad & 3rd day onwards in Guyana, no pitch took spin. Now, every caribbean pitch is a yard slower in pace, lot lower in bounce and takes spin well from 3rd day onwards.

Its not a matter of perception, its a common knowledge and fact that many caribbean commentators have said over the years.

 

[rkt.india]

9 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Sorry, but the pitches in the west Indies were a lot different than they are today- so were Australia.  They were a lot more bouncy and in the caribbean, except for 4th & 5th day at Trinidad & 3rd day onwards in Guyana, no pitch took spin. Now, every caribbean pitch is a yard slower in pace, lot lower in bounce and takes spin well from 3rd day onwards.

Its not a matter of perception, its a common knowledge and fact that many caribbean commentators have said over the years.

 

In West Indies, only two pitches have had good pace and bounce, Barbados and Jamaica Sabina Park and they are still good for fast bowlers. I am watching cricket for last 20 years and Guyana has never helped pacers. It is a spin friendly pitch. Trinidad has always been know as batting friendly where India chased 400 plus runs in a test. Same in Australia. Only Gabba and Perth were fast and bouncy and they still are. Adelaide and SCG good batting tracks, offering something for spinners. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by rkt.india

[Cricketics]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Where did I say he was weak against short ball. 

I am not trying to say that you are claiming something which you don't know.

 

I am asking your opinion about it. How you think he was against short ball? And how much did you watch him? Since I never watched him in his prime. 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

Kapil Dev batted well even outside of India. Can Ashwin boast of this?

 

I feel if pressed to be an all rounder, Ashwin will go the Irfan Pathan way, ie mediocre at both. He should rather continue being a specialist bowler who once in a while bats well.

Ashwin was a batsman at age group level, so, he is not Pathan in that aspect. He has the mentality and temperament of batsman. Regarding outside India, Ashwin has a 100 in WI on a pitch where we were 126/5.  He has two 100s overseas and 3 50s, averaging 30. Kapil Dev averaged 26 away from home with 3 100s, though played more tests, 66 of them. Ashwin already has 2 overseas in just 17 tests.

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

I am not trying to say that you are claiming something which you don't know.

 

I am asking your opinion about it. How you think he was against short ball? And how much did you watch him? Since I never watched him in his prime. 

I have not watched Kapil when he was playing, only in videos and old telecast on TV.

Edited November 28, 2016 by rkt.india

[Muloghonto]

8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

In West Indies, only two pitches have had good pace and bounce, Barbados and Jamaica Sabina Park and they are still good for fast bowlers. I am watching cricket for last 20 years and Guyana has never helped pacers. It is a spin friendly pitch. Trinidad has always been know as batting friendly where India chased 400 plus runs in a test. Same in Australia. Only Gabba and Perth were fast and bouncy and they still are. Adelaide and SCG good batting tracks, offering something for spinners. 

False. Antigua also had plenty of bounce & pace to the wicket in the 80s & 90s. 

Trinidad isn't the batting friendly ground, Guyana is. Trinidad is similar to MCG : helps pacers early on, then the pitch behaved 2-paced and then starts to crumble late on the 4th day.

In Australia, Gabba,Perth, MCG and Sydney were way faster than they are today. Especially Perth, Gabba and Sydney. 

Ask any commentator, any cricketer of the past 20-30 years and they will tell you that pitches in the Caribbean and Australia have slowed down a lot. Viv Richards has said that plenty of times i can remember myself.

 

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

False. Antigua also had plenty of bounce & pace to the wicket in the 80s & 90s. 

Trinidad isn't the batting friendly ground, Guyana is. Trinidad is similar to MCG : helps pacers early on, then the pitch behaved 2-paced and then starts to crumble late on the 4th day.

In Australia, Gabba,Perth, MCG and Sydney were way faster than they are today. Especially Perth, Gabba and Sydney. 

Ask any commentator, any cricketer of the past 20-30 years and they will tell you that pitches in the Caribbean and Australia have slowed down a lot. Viv Richards has said that plenty of times i can remember myself.

 

I don't believe what a cricketer or commentator says about past. They all mostly exaggerate and this is in our nature to eulogize past. There are plenty of videos available to watch with your own eyes.