Is Ashwin heading towards the league of the great Kapil Dev?

[sandeep]

7 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

That is silly, considering those people have played on those pitches themselves and are more qualified to talk about it than you.

It is in our nature to eulogize the past as well as to aggrandize the present as the 'best there ever has been'.

 

Plenty of videos available shows that the pitches in the caribbean and particularly in Perth bounced significantly more than they do today.

 

 

True on both counts.  But one thing is better today than in the past - the level of athleticism and fitness across players and teams.  The lack of this, in the past, made the great ones of yesteryear tower even higher above their peers as opposed to today.   Conversely, the prevalence and effectiveness of safety gear and improvements in bats, video analysis etc has had a non-trivial impact as well.  

[sandeep]

On the subject of the thread - Ash is averaging 55 with the bat at #6 - only 6 matches so far, in India and West Indies.  But its still an indication of how reliable he has been.   I think I'm going to start calling him the banker - he's so damn dependable with either bat or ball.   Big partnerships in a supporting role with set batsmen? Check.  Game-saving ability to bat time? Check.  Score crucial runs in pressure situations with only tail for support? Check.  Ability to play spin and pace with assurance? Check.  Hits boundaries that ooze class a la VVS? Check.  

 

Watching him bowl now, you can easily see him fix the one hole in his resume - taking wickets in unhelpful conditions away from home.  

 

And his partner in crime Jaddu - The Flash.  Zips through overs before the batsman can even realize, leaving the umpires and commentators gasping for breath.  Lightning quick in the field as well.  And if he scores 50 with the bat, watch out for the flash-y celebrations!  

 

The Banker and the Flash - Spin twins taking Team India to new heights.

[putrevus]

Kapil unlike Ashwin ( Ashwin has lot less load when Indian teams travel away from subcontinent) was carrying the load of Indian bowling till late 1980s even in India, unlike Srinath who had Kumble , Kapil for most part did not even posses a stable spinner  as bowling partner.

 

Those who are comparing Kapil and Ashwin purely based on stats need to understand the mindset of Indian team and India in general in 1970s and 80s. They were meek and submissive team even at home. Kapil Dev provided that X -factor and edge which no other cricketer has provided India .Kapil Dev was the strike and stock bowler of the side at the same time.Stats never complete story about a player. In 1983 world cup there was no telecast/highlights for an Indian world cup match  and now we have even practice games being telecast live, Kapil will remain root cause for Indian team's rise to dominance.There is reason why Kapil was voted Indian cricketer of century over Sachin.

 

Anyone who doubts Kapil's ability should go and read the article on Cricinfo about his last test hundred with one hand against a rampaging Allan Donald on a pitch where rest of  the Indian top order were looking scared.

 

That said Ashwin will end up as greatest all rounder from Indian once he wins some matches in England/Australia/SA.

 

[Vilander]

Kapil was strike pace bowler. And a lower order enforcer batsman, at times only one who would stand up.  he is a different league altogether, Ashwin lacks a bit of nerve to dominate, yesterday he kept talking to jadeja but ended up loosing his concentration. jadeja turns out was waiting for a partner who was quicker between the wickets. Ashwin is a bloody good alrounder, too important to us atm, but lesser than Kapil.

[fineleg]

8 hours ago, MechEng said:

I'd say even better than Kapil paaji.

That's a joke!

[jusarrived]

if he ends his career as a Top6 batsmen and as our premier bowler ( Batting avg of 40+ and bowling avg of under 25 ) , he would have won us more matches than any other players ... That would take him a league above Kapil . 

[sandeep]

7 hours ago, jusarrived said:

if he ends his career as a Top6 batsmen and as our premier bowler ( Batting avg of 40+ and bowling avg of under 25 ) , he would have won us more matches than any other players ... That would take him a league above Kapil . 

That would be because the rest of the team around Ash is loads better than what Kapil had.  

[Brainfade]

10 hours ago, Cricketics said:

Let him take at least 4-5 fifers and score at least 2-3 centuries, after that we can think about discussing that 

Exactly the point. The chasm between him and Ashwin is just like the chasm between Ashwin and Kapil.  Bahut serious ho rahe ho, Tics bhai :-).

[Cricketics]

18 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I have not watched Kapil when he was playing, only in videos.

Lol serious  ki baat nahi. Ashwin has started performing in every game ridiculously well. Every time he bats,  there is a expectation from him to bail us out as he has done plenty of times already. 

[Muloghonto]

13 hours ago, jusarrived said:

if he ends his career as a Top6 batsmen and as our premier bowler ( Batting avg of 40+ and bowling avg of under 25 ) , he would have won us more matches than any other players ... That would take him a league above Kapil . 

There is nobody in test cricket who's averaged  >40 with the bat and <20 with the ball, who's played more than 5 matches.

The closest is Aubrey Faulkner who averaged 40.79 with bat and 26.58 with ball.

 

So yes, if Ash gets numbers never seen in Test cricket before, he'd be considered a league above kapil.

 

[Vijy]

18 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

There is nobody in test cricket who's averaged  >40 with the bat and <20 with the ball, who's played more than 5 matches.

The closest is Aubrey Faulkner who averaged 40.79 with bat and 26.58 with ball.

 

So yes, if Ash gets numbers never seen in Test cricket before, he'd be considered a league above kapil.

 

For a good fracion of their career, Imran and Keith Miller did exactly that. But, I agree that Ash seems to be in the middle of such a spell also.

[Yoda-esque]

Ashwin is a genuine allrounder,dare I say it but he can reayin his place as batsman alone.Plays the ball late and thats the hallmark of a good batsman...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Vijy]

Those who saw Kapil all agreed that he was much greater than the sum of his numbers. Besides, he under-performed with the bat and during the last years was a poor bowler.

[Texan]

4 hours ago, Vijy said:

Those who saw Kapil all agreed that he was much greater than the sum of his numbers. Besides, he under-performed with the bat and during the last years was a poor bowler.

He was not as poor a bowler in his last few years as it was made out to be. His bowling average in his last 4 years was actually better than his overall bowling average.

[SUMO]

kapil has 5200 runs in 131 test ... Ash has 1750 in 42 well on the way if you extrapolate
generally all-rounder's batting gets better with age (barring botham)

I expect to carry his current bowling form till age of 34-35 i.e. 40-45 tests more he can add 200 wickets more 
so 450 wic till his peak ends which is fantastic 

after that he can contribute more as a batsman for 2-3 years ... 
I see 5000 runs with 12 centuries and 550 wic in 110 tests 
 

[mishra]

@CricketicsI just texted my mate Gavaskar your question.

 

He texted me back saying has seen them both. And Kapil was shyte compared to Ashwin

[sandeep]

On 11/28/2016 at 1:22 AM, rkt.india said:

I don't believe what a cricketer or commentator says about past. They all mostly exaggerate and this is in our nature to eulogize past. There are plenty of videos available to watch with your own eyes.

You are right about commies, but Mulo has a point about carib pitches.  Jamaica used to be fast bowler's haven - but IIRC in the 90s the track had to be relaid after a test was abandoned due to dangerous cracks.  After that, its been a bit of a dead duck.  Antigua was never super quick, but now its just this dhoos track where you can bat forever.  

[Cricketics]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

@CricketicsI just texted my mate Gavaskar your question.

 

He texted me back saying has seen them both. And Kapil was shyte compared to Ashwin

your mate is Rohan Gavaskar?

[diga]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

@CricketicsI just texted my mate Gavaskar your question.

 

He texted me back saying has seen them both. And Kapil was shyte compared to Ashwin

Kapil & Sunny Gavaskar are not the best of friends.. Read somewhere about Kapil accusing Gavaskar of under performing during his tenure

[kruiser]

Kapil is the reason we all are following cricket today instead of Hockey or kabaddi or whatever else. 

I have watched him live and his batting was next best entertaining after King Viv! About his bowling, well Kapil da jawaab nahin! (younger members might not get the reference, but look up palmolive shave cream ads on youtube)

Edited November 30, 2016 by kruiser