Rohan495 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 tell me more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? They are much more allied to hindus. Have no links to muslims. There are many instances od hindus and sikhs in punjab marrying and is seen as quite acceptable by many. A sikh would never marry a muslim, they would be disowned. The facts are that all sikhs were generally hindus before becoming sikhs. One of the main reasons the sikh religion came about was to fight the scourge and oppression of islam in india. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? I think the poster meant philosophically- If i am not mistaken, Sikhism derives its principles from both Hinduism and Islam. However, the reason Sikhs are far more favourable towards Hindu-Sikh marriages than Sikh-Muslim ones are : 1. Hindus dont force/demand the sikh to convert like most Muslims do upon marriage. Thus there is independence to keep Sikh faith alive even if marrying a hindu 2. Sikhs had blood feud with Muslims from the time of Aurangzeb. What the latter Mughal dynasty did to the Sikhs was truely despicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? I think the poster meant philosophically- If i am not mistaken, Sikhism derives its principles from both Hinduism and Islam. However, the reason Sikhs are far more favourable towards Hindu-Sikh marriages than Sikh-Muslim ones are : 1. Hindus dont force/demand the sikh to convert like most Muslims do upon marriage. Thus there is independence to keep Sikh faith alive even if marrying a hindu 2. Sikhs had blood feud with Muslims from the time of Aurangzeb. What the latter Mughal dynasty did to the Sikhs was truely despicable. It does not derive its principles from Islam. That is the baloney/myth you would read in a text book. It also does not really derive it from hinduism either. It is a religion in its own right with its own principles. It just happened to be created in a time when islam and hinduism were the 2 main religions in Punjab. The main reason why they are close to hindus is once again because sikhs were 99.9% of them were hindus before becoming sikhs. They share many cultural similarities. Sikhism partly came about and developed to stop islamic oppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? It does not derive its principles from Islam. That is the baloney/myth you would read in a text book. It also does not really derive it from hinduism either. It is a religion in its own right with its own principles. That is a fable. Nothing comes into existance absolutely on its own. Every religion/philosophy borrows and is influenced by philosophies/religions before it. True, Sikhism has an independent identity but it is incorrect IMO to deny that several of its principles have similar principles in Islam and Hinduism. Also, i agree that closer cultural affiliation with hinduism plays a part in its better relation with Sikhism. But i think it is incorrect to say that Sikhism was founded to stop Islamic opression - the early sikhs were definately not anti-muslim or anything. They just went about their own business and they became anti-muslim after being slaughtered by the muslim mughal armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? What principles does it have similar to Islam? Only one is belief in one god, hardly can be put down to influence of Islam that Guru Nanak revealed this. There are much more similarites with Hinduism. This is no doubt due to all the gurus and sikhs being hindu before sikhism. It also was not founded to stop muslims. It however grew in popularity due in part to islamic tyranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? Sikhism came to fruition in those days when due to bhakti movement and its islamic couter-part sufi movement momentarily at least among thinkers of that time religious boundary more or less disappeared. Guru granth saheb for instance have words of Baba Farid (he was a sufi saint and good soul without a doubt same can't be said about the prophet too bad) Kabir das etc in it but the maximm share of verses come from kabir's words. Kabir mind you was a born muslim and hated islamic ways to the core for that matter hindu karm-kand too. Particualrly the slaughter tradition he abhorred to the hilt Kankar patthar jor ke maszid liyo banaye, taa par mullah bang de ka bahiro huo khudaye is one of the immortal words of kabir. It looks closer to hinduism because hinduism gives more leg room for differing thought unlike islam or for that matter any other abrahmic religion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyinallblue Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? Kankar patthar jor ke maszid liyo banaye, taa par mullah bang de ka bahiro huo khudaye :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: amazing sarcasm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? Correction: Kabir was nt born muslim. Legend has it that he was actually the son of a Brahmin widow who abandoned him and that he was found by a Muslim weaver named Niru, who adopted the boy and taught him the weaver's trade. :wtg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? The main reason why they are close to hindus is once again because sikhs were 99.9% of them were hindus before becoming sikhs. same applies to 99% of muslims in pakistan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooter Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? Sikhism began as a social and religious reform movement--they were aware of the fact that they were creating a new religion (exactly the case for the Bahai faith). Sikhism avowedly claims "borrowing" or taking inspiration from the known religions at the time: not just the ones mentioned above but also Buddhism, Christianity, etc. In terms of religious doctrine, I think Sikhism is closest to Hinduism but it has significant differences and stands on its own--just as Christianity is a unique religion unto itself despite growing out of Judaism. But, if you're not referring to religious dogma or philosophy, and just looking at familial or racial affiliation ... it's not even close. Islam was brought by Iranian peoples, Arab merchants, and a whole slew of Central Asian people: Turks, Turkomen, Uzbek, Tadzik, Afghan peoples, etc. etc. all civilizationally united under the "Islamic banner." Despite having the "Singh" surname, most Sikhs still carry their former Hindu (i.e. Indian) surnames. That is why you'll never find a "Chohan" or "Gill" or "Ahluwalia" in any Islamic country. Sikhs are as Indian as mango chutney ... don't care where they drew their philosophical inspiration from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? Sikhs are feared by India's enemies. Reputation for being mad, bad & dangerous. Proud of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooter Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? ... also they never pay rent on time. ... or is that just in Gujarat?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator_05 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? What about guys like Bhindranwale ? I am not questioning the loyalty of Sikhs here - just curious as to how good Hindu-Sikh relations are in reality as opposed to the common perception most people have. Pre 1984, there were a lot of Hindu-Sikh marriages but relations havent been quite as lively since then. I am also curious to know what Sikhs think of '84 and if some of them still bear a grudge against Hindus for what happened back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyinallblue Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? Sikhs are IMO more indian than any other indian. though they follow different religion...but they are not hard core...i mean they are tolerant... i have seen many sikhs visiting mandirs..and many hindus going in gurudwaras... except for one dark incident of 84...sikhs have always contributed to their motherland...India. i have great respect for sikhism..and have visited many gurudwaras in delhi..have eaten langars...have done "sewa" in gurudwaras... Sikhs have nothing to do with muslims or pakistanis... Pakistanis do dream about dividing and separating sikhs from india....but they very well know what is the reality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? Despite having the "Singh" surname, most Sikhs still carry their former Hindu (i.e. Indian) surnames. That is why you'll never find a "Chohan" or "Gill" or "Ahluwalia" in any Islamic country. I don't knwo about chauhan but have certainly met Desai, Chaudhary muslims. In my interaction with muslim on online boards have found them talkign among themselves who is rajput who is jaat etc etc.....Incidentally in Pakistan left over hindus are mostly of lower caste shudra; makes u think socalled brave ones succumbed but not these poor souls. But then it may have to do with what was at stake for each of them; the poor folks had nothing to lose all they had got was their faith whereas well off folks had many things to lose for their steadfastness hence the speedy submission. Well Bhindarawale type few rotten apples are in all community.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? Early hindu ohilopshy anyone who used to go through the 3rd and fourth state of dharma tha is vaanprsath and sanyaas used to called sikh ban gaya. I vividly remember my grand-father's turning sikh ceremony meaning he left the worldly worries and was 24/7 indluged from then on with Pooja-path. Sikhism initially didn't even start as religion its main focus was to reconcile the differences between islam and hinduism and present a comon ground. For this reason in intial days it was basically consternation of Sufis and bhakti movement individuals hence the large influence of Kabirdas's teaching. But as is the wont islamist witheir exclusivist agenda could never reconcile with this attempt of assimilation. REason for this could be that [sooner or later question would have popped up what's new that islam brings to the table and dare I say Pope was not off the mark a wee bit when he mentioned there is no value addition as far as positivity is concerned to the larger dharma by Muhd's words]. Proof is in the pudding you won't find any difference between sufi and bhakti movement people, I rest my case. So islamist took it upon themsleves to trample the sikhism movement and they did sthg which was unheard of a Sikh guru Teg Bahadur who went to Aurangjeb's sourt for soliciting safe haven for the hindu saints in kashmir region so that they could indulge in their religious activities without being pestered by pests of Aurangjeb; and boy this knucklehead instead of heeding to his advice beheaded the guru right there in his court. from here on metamorphosis started of sikhism, you can't fight islamic faith with the gandhian principle of present other cheek these vile pests will slap u on other cheek too. There is a reaosn we never fhad any Mahatma Gandhi in 1000 years of islamic oppression. No Mohandas was allowed to take the mountainous proportion of Mahtama, if it were for islamists Gandhi instead of being thrown out of that railway compartment on platform would have ben thrown on rail track and story would have ended right there. Sikhs learnt this fact ater what happened to teg bahadur and then on they adopted aggressive posture towards islamist. Obviously since they were fighting the same devil along with hindus they were in sync with hindus as far as philopshy was concerned if u go in beginning there was no point fo discord to start with. They may have emphasized one or another aspect of hinduism but never were discordant with any edicts. Well that's how and why they are more close to hindus. This simple matter of "in marriage they don't seek conversion" notwithstanding reason of hindu proximity is much more deep-rooted. As far as marriage leading to conversions are concerned well islamist should and actually have problem with every other faith on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? What about guys like Bhindranwale ? I am not questioning the loyalty of Sikhs here - just curious as to how good Hindu-Sikh relations are in reality as opposed to the common perception most people have. Pre 1984, there were a lot of Hindu-Sikh marriages but relations havent been quite as lively since then. I am also curious to know what Sikhs think of '84 and if some of them still bear a grudge against Hindus for what happened back then. I think indira Ghandhi made a lot of mistakes at the time to aggravate the situation. I think relations are very good know. Not even remotest chance of communal unrest. Anyone who has been to punjab recently could testify to that, people are more interested in making money :hmph: Also sikhs are all over india know, Dehli , Mumbai etc. Very much hard core part of India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyinallblue Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? '84 has been forgotten...a lot of humane touch has been given to the affected families... these gamilies are now very much into business and are among the elites...like in delhi...areas around Tilak Nagar. Punjabi Bagh.. Rajauri garden, Raja garden..are punjabi majority area...and with their hard work..they have established themselves really well... i visit gurudwaras..very frequently... and my experiences with punjabi families has been very very good.... My mother tells me that how in '84 ...during the riots..people of my locality protected the lone punjabi family in our colony...in calcutta... my experience says that hindus,sikhs,Budhists, christians, etc etc are more comfortable in dealing with each other...than with muslims... Poor Muslims tend to live in ghettos...and always try to be in groups.. they never tried to mingle with the crowd..so others too do not feel comfortable dealing with them... though the barber shop near my house belongs to a muslim..and he is a really nice chap.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Re: Who are sikhs more closely related to Muslims or Hindus? my experience says that hindus,sikhs,Budhists, christians, etc etc are more comfortable in dealing with each other...than with muslims... I'd agree except i'd remove Christians from the fray. Indian catholics are allright - they have 'adapted' catholicism to dharmic faiths and are content to remain within their sphere. But protestant christianity is very abrasive, particularly the type that involves US fanatics like Benny Hinn setting up base in India and getting a few 'chamchaas' to do his bidding. They've aggressively converted a significant portion of north-east india to christianity and whenever they prosthelyse, they diss Hindu Gods and Goddeses by calling them 'fallen angels' and 'devils in disguise'. They mostly focus on Neoti or Yama and Kali and potray Hinduism as a bloodthirsty (ironic!) faith that has ignorant masses worshipping terrorist Gods who'd blow up the followers if he/she doesnt get worship. The protestant christianity even goes around giving money to people to convert and tries to plop down churches right next to hindu holy sites. If i am not mistaken, the christians tried to/have built a church right next to Tirumala temple complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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