kabira Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables head coach you still havnt answered my question? Where are you originally from?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables >I hope you would agree that the structure of different levels of the system: Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra, and Harijans came from Hindu religion. it was based on occupation, not based by birth. Hinduism clearly believes in "Karma" and "Dharma". For example, Karna (suppose to be son of Sarathi) was recognized as Kshatriya because of his occupation... Its because of some greedy priests, this system became by birth... even today we have our society divided in different sects, rich, middleclass, poor...Engineers, Doctors, Lawyers...but none of this is by birth.. Kabira, Well if it is by occupation if a lower caste person chooses the job of becoming a priest will you allow him to do pujas in temple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables >Kabira, Well if it is by occupation if a lower caste person chooses the job of becoming a priest will you allow him to do pujas in temple? definately. and I believe it has started to happen in TamilNadu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables btw, you havnt answered my question?? Is it because its too sensitive? or you dont have any roots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables >Kabira, Well if it is by occupation if a lower caste person chooses the job of becoming a priest will you allow him to do pujas in temple? definately. and I believe it has started to happen in TamilNadu. Well thats kind of an exception, I have heard one in Bihar too. Majority of the temples still doesnt allow Dalits to enter in. And about the Bihar temple I have heard Lord Buddha beng worshipped .Lord Buddha considered as the tenth avatar of Lord Vishnu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables .Lord Buddha considered as the tenth avatar of Lord Vishnu. Buddha was considered 9th avatar , 10 th being kalki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables >I hope you would agree that the structure of different levels of the system: Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra, and Harijans came from Hindu religion. it was based on occupation, not based by birth. Hinduism clearly believes in "Karma" and "Dharma". For example, Karna (suppose to be son of Sarathi) was recognized as Kshatriya because of his occupation... The entire caste system based on occupation was flawed. I think you should consider reading the Varnashram Dharma which is the basis of caste system based on occupation. Who gives Hinduism the right to tell a Shudra that he/she is born from the Lord's Feet and Brahmin is born from Lord's Head. Also, the logic for upward mobility was flawed.Shudra CANNOT marry a Brahmin. What nonsense is this ? Also, please read manu smiriti to know how screwed up the system was. BTW, Karna was never recognized as Kshatriya. Otherwise , Draupadi should have married him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Totally Agree KR ... but the point is we have recognized that flaw and have made serious attempts to correct it .... and we have done a pretty good job considering its been barely 60 yrs since it started to be put into the laws of our land. The same thing cannot be said about Islam as it says in the Q that its perfect and challenges anyone to come up with a more perfect book. Bheem , Point Taken. In my opinion , Q can never be perfect. Any book , written in medival times has to be flawed big time. Society/culure has evolved over time and Q has to evolve too. I personally think that Social Democracies like Norway, Sweden, Canada etc have evolved to a near perfect system in terms of freedom and human rights with religion taking a back seat. But some of these Muslims want to go the other way around. They will impose their draconian Sharia whereever there is muslim majority or semblance of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
head coach Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables One of the ugliest thing that still exist in rural India is forced prostitution of Dalit women and girls through the traditional system of temple prostitution or Devadasi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Re: The Untouchables caste discrimination is a crime in india and yet, that is the first on any form to be filled up..... cos the government does reverse discrimination..... i am fed up of these quotas shyte.... from wat i have seen, normal people hardly care about castes..... but the government keeps reminding.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Re: The Untouchables Another dead issue being printed just for the sake of making islamsit not look that bad.. At the outset hindus collectively have accepted in words in deeds and in legislation that this was horrible practice and corrective measures have been taken so much so that today dalit tag takes u places.. [And her we keep harping even the enlightened muslims won;t brig themselves to even accept that there is institutiinalied discrmination in place in islam. All u get is meandering apologetic from likes of lurker . they will so carefully avoid it] Having said that (1) other than in some part of south particularly malabar region this practice was not in the extreme form it's being depicted.. (2) I will talk about my state Bihar never seen someone roaming around with broom attached to the backside sweepign the floor so that great brahmins can walk on the road.. I am told though (3) So RSS/VHP/BJP is reposnisble for this or has not done enough whatever the connotation is of the left-handed barb. Please be informed; that's all I am asking: out of 60 years of indepndence congressi have been in power close to 52 years for couple fo years janta party and 6 years BJP. So if must play the blame game choose ur target intelligently. So general rule of thumb if anything stinks first round of pillory abuse should go to the secular and garib-messiha congressi. Now what is RSS/VHP etc wing doing about it despite not being in any kind of position of power. Let us have a look: (1) Vanvasi kalyan ashram (2) Sewa international (3) 1 Rs a day exlcusively happens to be in far-fllung areas where garibmessiha govt seldom reaches. ( Incidentally great secular arjun singh has dropped whatever govt doles this program was getting.) You guessed it apparently these viles RSS brigade are teaching those dalit and tribals about hinduism too. And u see miss hinduism teaching has to be communal. It's not that secular indian govt is against any kidn fo eligious teaching case in point fully funded mushrooming mederasha would not have bene in vogue. Just anythign about hinduims must not be taught. (4) recently in Guajarat tribal mahakumbh was organized and delegates of tribal people from all over india assebled in a spirit of celebrating their culture. You see again instilling self-respect would have been welcome in normal circumstances but since this event too was sponsored by vile rss hence it was terms as communal assembly. just google u will get the drift. So kahani ye hai janaab when it comes to rss.vhp brigade as far as secularists' assessmentis concerned .. cheads I win tails u lose.. they do somethign then they get to be caleld communal rganization corrupting mind of poor dalits and tribals with hinduism preaching and if they don't well then they get asked why aren't they doing anything.. PS: Talking of dalit embracing islamic culture. Ignoring the daily stories of high caste muslims awarding gang-rape sentenc to low caste muslim girl because her brother dared to talk to some high caste women ignoringwhat the greatest dalit visionary had to say about these folks, let us have a look at what happened to one Dalit leader who crossed the wagah border in 47 expecting warm embrace. His name was Jogendra nath mandal and poor chap had to leave that country for his life and guess where he found safe haven, of course India. anyway read about the plights of dalits in islamic republic of pakistan.. http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-sikand230905.htm :wtg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Re: The Untouchables One of the ugliest thing that still exist in rural India is forced prostitution of Dalit women and girls through the traditional system of temple prostitution or Devadasi I have zero idea of what you are on about and this line makes me doubt that you are an indian/have been to India ever. For i've visited hundreds upon hundreds of indian temples all over India ( except, i admit, the south- i've never been to India south of Vizag) and i've never seen a devdasi forced intro any sort of prostitution. Hell, i've maybe seen devdasis in one or two temples at most as it is. Apologies though, if i am in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Re: The Untouchables makes me doubt that you are an indian/have been to India ever. duh.... he is a paaki..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Re: The Untouchables BTW, Karna was never recognized as Kshatriya. Otherwise , Draupadi should have married him. Karna was recognized as a Kshatriya but that happened much later than the swayamvara. Technically speaking, he was always a kshatriya - son a princess and a minor 'God' in the first place is a kshatriya by default- illegitimate or not. That makes Karna a kshatriya to those who agree with caste-on-birth ideology. But this wasn't 'exposed' in the story until much later. But if caste were to be seen based on merit, then Karna became a Kshatriya when Duryodhana made him a king. That is also Kshatriya by default to those who believe in caste-on-merit principle. Draupadi didn't pick Karna simply because she was aware of her destiny to marry Arjuna and his four brothers, as decreed by the curse/boon (dunno how you'd put it honestly) in her previous life. Or so the story goes atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Re: The Untouchables headcoach what part of india you from?? stil waiting for your answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Re: The Untouchables headcoach what part of india you from?? stil waiting for your answer? I don't think he is indian. I've never met an indian who thought promiscuous devdasis or far worse, forced devdasis were in vogue at Indian temples. An Indian cannot be THAT deluded about India and be literate at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Re: The Untouchables let him answer...i am waiting for this for past 2 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Re: The Untouchables caste discrimination is a crime in india and yet, that is the first on any form to be filled up..... cos the government does reverse discrimination..... i am fed up of these quotas shyte.... from wat i have seen, normal people hardly care about castes..... but the government keeps reminding.... Caste system is still alive and prevalent in india on reasonably big scale. Quotas are one of the only ways to destroy this henious thing of the caste system. However, I believe in 30/40 years it will nearly be eradicated. Maybe in a century it will be non existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Re: The Untouchables headcoach what part of india you from?? stil waiting for your answer? I don't think he is indian. I've never met an indian who thought promiscuous devdasis or far worse, forced devdasis were in vogue at Indian temples. An Indian cannot be THAT deluded about India and be literate at the same time. :wtg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Re: The Untouchables The part about devdasis was funny though, never been a regular at temples, but haven't seen any of them ever in my life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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