yoda Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? I don't buy this crap that people eat meat cause it gives tons of proteins. They eat it cause they love it including all the cholestrol and fat that come with it. Meat eating clearly is proven to lead to more heart diseases. Proteins my a$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? don't buy this crap that people eat meat cause it gives tons of proteins. They eat it cause they love it including all the cholestrol and fat that come with it. Meat eating clearly is proven to lead to more heart diseases. Proteins my a$$. So true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? Lurker, Unbelievable, wat u will do, wen u know answering tht question can put u in a spot... tht question cannot get simpler than tht.... i am jus asking u, if u will tolerate someone killing and eating ur pet dog? and explain why or why not... i would also like to know wat percentage of non-vegetarians are following ur % diet and are in prime shape.... like someone else pointed out, if there are bodybuilders who i am sure look better than us on a veggie diet, wat more proof do u want.... but whether u accept it or not, i jus need u to answer my pet question.... if u dont understand, tell me which part u dont understand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? Gator, For the umpteenth time, just explain your pet question better. Maybe its a simple thing that I am missing but where am I running away from question as you are insinuating? Its a simple question of me asking you to elaborate your question. Just rephrase or maybe add a line or two so I know what you mean. i would also like to know wat percentage of non-vegetarians are following ur % diet and are in prime shape.... So is that your best shot about a vegetarian diet? Should I assume that you have not been able to provide me with answer to my simple question of providing a vegetarian diet worth 2000 calories? If so, just say it. I can produce a non-veg balanced diet if you wanted to, why can you not do the same? And if you can not why are you harping on about with vague answers? if there are bodybuilders who i am sure look better than us on a veggie diet, wat more proof do u want. Vague, vague, vague and vague. To answer your question I can also throw everyone from 1-15 in this year Mr. Olympia(or for that matter any Olympia) and say that they are all based on meat. NONE, I repeat none, of them are vegetarians. That would also answer your insinuation about "percentage of non-vegetarians are following ur % diet and are in prime shape". This would not really take us anywhere. If you want to reach a conclusion show me a balanced diet rich in all proteins, carbs and fats derived from plants. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? aree, bhai logo khane peene ke mammale mein ladai jadga mat karo... khao piyo aur aish karo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? I don't buy this crap that people eat meat cause it gives tons of proteins. They eat it cause they love it including all the cholestrol and fat that come with it. Meat eating clearly is proven to lead to more heart diseases. Proteins my a$$. That being the case everyone would eat chocolate day long. Meat eating is part of a healthy diet. Anyone who has ever eaten meat will tell you that a cup of meat will make for a more filling food that a cup of curry. Your body absorbs meat much better than plants(hence animal derived proteins are considered more bio-available than plants based proteins). True there are fats and cholestrol but one needs to be careful. An egg has loads of cholestrol, throw the yolk and its all pure protein. Similarl is the case with meat, depends on what you want to eat I suppose. Dont forget that many fruits, mango for example, is also loaded with fats. Or Avocado. Or nuts. the list goes on. See, noone is suggesting eat meat daylong. But I would suggest to have it as a part of daily diet. Or show me a balanced diet comin strictly from veggies. As it is I can eat both(veggies and non-veg) so good news for me only. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? I don't buy this crap that people eat meat cause it gives tons of proteins. They eat it cause they love it including all the cholestrol and fat that come with it. Meat eating clearly is proven to lead to more heart diseases. Proteins my a$$. That being the case everyone would eat chocolate day long. Some people do. Depends on how much you love it and how much of it you can afford and how much time you have to eat all day long. Look at all the people eating hamburgers in McDonalds. All meat eaters. You think they are all there for the Protein? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailesh Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? Let's take a simple example of someone plucking a fruit from a plant and eating it as compared to someone plucking a chicken's legs and eating it. How is that different from rearing animals and killing them for food? Again lets keep philosphy out of this since it is hard to argue against moral values. xxxx Lurker, you seriously think animals and plants are the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? Look at all the people eating hamburgers in McDonalds. All meat eaters. You think they are all there for the Protein? Errr not quite.If they were there for meat they would have a burger with meat only, wouldnt you agree? But they are there for the whole thing, mayo, mustard, ketchup, lettuce, pickles and so on(all veg thingy). heck if it was only meat they would probably never eat it!! xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? Lurker, you seriously think animals and plants are the same? Shailesh. My stance on this has been that one should eat without being asked about morality of it. And I also stand by my stance that you cannot have a balanced diet solely on vegetables. Thus far I would say I havent received any evidence to contrary. Coming to plants. I would accept that plucking fruits is surely great. But if human beings harvest crops and kill them how is that different from killing animals? that is something I would like to know. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailesh Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? My stance on this has been that one should eat without being asked about morality of it. what? the 'morality' thing you are suggesting to be ignored is what differentiates basic human naure from animals. I guess gator has questioned this point of yours earlier so I won't go into more detail :hmph: And I also stand by my stance that you cannot have a balanced diet solely on vegetables. there are enough resources available which break this myth and are scientifically proven. as I previously said just try searching on the net. btw if it was even half true this world would have turned 100% meat eating by now. Coming to plants. I would accept that plucking fruits is surely great. But if human beings harvest crops and kill them how is that different from killing animals? that is something I would like to know. since they are two different life forms (and recognized by science), 'killing' them just can not be compared. :shrug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? ok, let me explain this.....i am gonna break it into 2 questions... here is the first part.... Lurker, do u have a pet? if so, do u know anyone who has a pet like a dog or a cat? Now, imagine if someone killed and ate your pet jus like eating a fruit or harvesting some grain.... The dog or cat, whom u have raised since it was a baby.... feeding it, walking it et al.... how would you feel? jus tell me honestly, wouldnt u go ahead and kill tht guy.... i would and so would any one else.... before u go off on a tangent, i am aware east asians eat dogs.... it is very common news.... jus answer about urself alone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailesh Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? on a lighter side, some of lurker's arguments sound like the mental aptitude problems? so let me try some counter arguments e.g. 'all' body builders are meat eaters. -but does that mean all meat eaters have that kind of physic? NO! meat eating is healthy. -but are all meat eaters healthy? NO! only veggies can not be a healthy diet. -so are all vegetaians are unhealthy? NO! clever Lurker, but these arguments are not going to hold up. you are taking a small percentage and somehow justifying it to be the whole :wtg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? Shailesh. the 'morality' thing you are suggesting to be ignored is what differentiates basic human naure from animals. Who defines morality? A Muslim eats meat so is he any less "moral" than a Hindu veggie? A Christian eat beef so is he any less? Of course not. Morality is deep seeped in religion and when it comes to religion I would better not get caught into that discussion, it never reaches anywhere. The followers have already made up their mind and so I shall let them be. there are enough resources available which break this myth and are scientifically proven. as I previously said just try searching on the net. Like what? I am sorry but I have been shouting rather hoarsely to give me a balanced diet for a day meal(forget year long). So why have it not been presented yet? With "enough resources" available like you say, it should have been a baayein haath ka kaam. I raise the same question to you. With all the resources that you have get me a 2000 calorie veggie diet that has 50% carbs, 30% proteins, 20% fat. Or else do not suggest me whats out there. since they are two different life forms (and recognized by science), 'killing' them just can not be compared. Not convincing. Sorry you will have to come up with better explanations. In both cases a life is lost. Waise you mentioned science. Now use science and show me how to get a balanced 2000 calorie diet out of vegetables. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? on a lighter side, some of lurker's arguments sound like the mental aptitude problems? so let me try some counter arguments e.g. 'all' body builders are meat eaters. -but does that mean all meat eaters have that kind of physic? NO! meat eating is healthy. -but are all meat eaters healthy? NO! only veggies can not be a healthy diet. -so are all vegetaians are unhealthy? NO! clever Lurker, but these arguments are not going to hold up. you are taking a small percentage and somehow justifying it to be the whole :wtg: Actually no. The problem there is what Amartya Sen clearly talks about in his book - Argumentative Indian. Indians excel in arguing but quite often they talk through their rear. 'all' body builders are meat eaters. -but does that mean all meat eaters have that kind of physic? NO! **** Compare an Indian who eats meat and one who doesnt. Tell me who has a better physique? A Marwari or a Bihari? A Jain or a Punjabi? I am not even comparing an American with an Indian. Even within India you will see that people who are completely veggie - Marwari and Jains for example have the worst physique(no offence to anyone here). meat eating is healthy. -but are all meat eaters healthy? NO! Meat eaters are generally healtheir than non-meat eaters. or else Marwaris and Jains would be the healthiest of the bunch. Read my response up above. only veggies can not be a healthy diet. -so are all vegetaians are unhealthy? NO! Same as above. So the question remains - Are you going to give me a diet of pure vegetarian background that gives me 2000 calories? Or are you going to prove Amartya Sen right? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? ok, let me explain this.....i am gonna break it into 2 questions... here is the first part.... Lurker, do u have a pet? if so, do u know anyone who has a pet like a dog or a cat? Now, imagine if someone killed and ate your pet jus like eating a fruit or harvesting some grain.... The dog or cat, whom u have raised since it was a baby.... feeding it, walking it et al.... how would you feel? jus tell me honestly, wouldnt u go ahead and kill tht guy.... i would and so would any one else.... before u go off on a tangent, i am aware east asians eat dogs.... it is very common news.... jus answer about urself alone.... Gator, No I do not have a pet. Let me answer your question this way. I raise a plant and I raise a dog. Over the years they are my two best friends. I play with my dog and when I am down I go and rest under that tree. Then one day someone kills my dog(like you said) and burnt the tree. Would I feel more pain for the dog and less for the plant? I dont think so. I would miss them both really. Of course if someone merely plucked the fruit off the tree I would not care as much but I beleive I have already established that harvesting grains and plucking fruits arent the same. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? >Marwari and Jains for example have the worst physique(no offence to anyone here). disagree.. had a friend in college...that guy had awesome physique..and he never went to gym..had unbelievable strength...he was veg. all his life..very good football player...won best athlete award in the college... and compare it with me and my roommate...both big time meat eaters...but lacked the stamina of that guy.. Another example..Srinath..veg fast bowler...bowled faster and longer than VRV..meat eating punjabi.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? >had a friend in college...that guy had awesome physique..and he never went to gym..had unbelievable strength...he was veg. all his life..very good football player...won best athlete award in the college... and compare it with me and my roommate...both big time meat eaters...but lacked the stamina of that guy.. Another example..Srinath..veg fast bowler...bowled faster and longer than VRV..meat eating punjabi.. Kabs. You are talking of exceptions. Sure there would be a case here and there but we have to be generic here. As for Srinath thats one thing I would like to know. He is on record saying his stint in England made him change eating habits and he turned to non-veg stuff. I would not want to second guess him so if he is here thats a good question to ask. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? http://www.wellesley.edu/Health/veggiediet.html Sample 2000 Calorie Vegetarian Diet by Julie Freedman, M.A., R.D., C.D.E. Carbohydrate - 62% Protein - 16% Fat - 23% Breakfast 2 slices whole grain bread 1 egg 1 tbsp pancake syrup 1 tsp. Butter Sliced orange Lunch 1 cup skim milk 2/3 cup chick-peas, mashed with lemon, garlic, parsley, 1 tsp. Olive oil 2 slices whole grain bread Sprouts 1 cup cut-up raw vegetables Apple Snack 1 tbsp natural peanut butter 1/2 bagel Dinner Spinach salad with 2 tbsp lite vinaigrette 1 cup steamed broccoli 1 cup steamed brown rice 1 cup kidney beans Tomato sauce, chili and cumin spices 1 slice whole grain bread 1/2 cup nonfat frozen yogurt Snack 1 cup skim milk 3 graham crackers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Re: Vegetarians? >You are talking of exceptions. Sure there would be a case here and there but we have to be generic here. I think you are talking about exceptions...good physique doesnt depend on if you eat only meat or not....I come from the family where we eat meat left right and center...and no one in my family has great physique...lot of them have heart problems.. I am in better shape since I stopped eating meat...ofcourse thats not the only factor.. this chinese eat every damn moving thing..and I dont see that they have good physique.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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