Is IPL hurting Indian cricket?

[Vikas Bhatt]

Where did I say ICL promoted cricket in India. But wasn't it an avenue for players to earn money the way you think? Then why should BCCI have a monopoly on the business part of it where players are boycotted by blackmail and arm twisting of other cricket boards? Where is the right of a player to earn here? If BCCI has decided it must work on more IPL and CTT20 like business ventures [and in the long run there is no doubt it will cost us test cricket greatly] than it must compete with rivals like most corporates do. What we have missed here is that BCCI claims it runs a sport and is a charitable organization and so they must only focus on such activities and they yield enough profits. It is not a private limited corporate entity and if they want to do business like one they should declare it, pay the revenue for it and get themselves listed as a private company. They are not open to public scrutiny and they have declared in a court of law they are a private body then in which case they have no rights to function like a charitable institution developing sports and seek concessions from Govt. This is the same BCCI whose Delhi Association spent 42 lakh rupees on just alcohol and entertainment in Annual Meetings and AGMs. In which case the Govt cannot give them a single facility or support without charging them market prices for the services. One cannot compare Sachin Tendulkar playing IPL for money because no one denies it is his playing and earning right. But he does not play T20s otherwise and only players tests and one dayers. He had announced his retirement from that international format for youngsters and he is sticking to that stand. But so many players now are ditching their national duties for IPL and this T20 circus and that is a serious setback for the very game the hypocritical BCCI claims to be serving. This is nthe same BCCI that foolishly charges a complete package for a 5 day test making it inaccessible to ordinary people and fans and ensuring the tests play out in half empty stands. One seriously doubts their commitment when they schedule only 5 tests whole of 2010 against Bangars and NZ and only beg for more tests for SA and Aus after media and fans pressure when India suddenly becomes a test no. 1. And this even as Mr. Modi now announces 8 months of T20 cricket where IPL teams will be forced to play matches in England, SA, Canada, America, Timbuktoo, Jhumri Talaiya, Antarctica, Mars and where not and one wonders where that will leave fit enough players for the main tests and one day games? And there is still that temptation to have 2 IPLs a year. How much of these commercial excesses be justified in the name of players rights and 'development' of the game is anybody's guess. What BCCI is upto these days is not cricket but business and mischief.

[Zap_Brannigan]

Zap - it is not just the economic model which is at fault. In fact I think a very good case can be made out in favour of the economic model. Lets just not assume that BCCI is doing this for the good of the game or for the players. That is the same as assuming that gladiatorial contests were organized in ancient times for the welfare of the bulls and the bears. Slightly divergent analogy but I am sure you see my point :).

Forget the analogy. We are talking about free will here. What if 700 million Indian people want T20 while 300 million wants ODI's and just a 100 million want Tests? Isnt it BCCI's responsibility to satiate the needs of the majority. Obviously the ratios are exaggerated because we haven't reached that state yet. But it will happen one day just like more and more ODI's filled up the cricket calendar, T20 will take over. I used to hate it too because T20 doesn't have many qualities i admire in the other form of the game. But i realized that i enjoyed it and would rather enjoy this format than think about the trivialities like the destruction of test cricket. I cannot do anything about it when the majority wants something else. BCCI would be perfectly profitable without IPL. BCCI was profitable without 30 ODIs every year before 96. Should the BCCI stop growing or seeking avenues to grow?Ask that to a low rung player who now can have a cricketing career without ever donning the India cap, something not possible a decade ago. It benefits almost everyone. Only the message board elitist lose out. Yes BCCI makes more money, but so does the players and everyone involved. Its like a companies stock i hold or where i work. If they get more profits, i will reap the rewards. The only way a company can grow is by adapting. Think of it this way. If Kamran Khan, a dirt poor chap who will never make it to the national team without further training, be able to get a good salary for 3 years and also world class facilities and technical staff to improve his game, hasnt BCCI and IPL done something right.

[thevortex]

Forget the analogy. We are talking about free will here. What if 700 million Indian people want T20 while 300 million wants ODI's and just a 100 million want Tests? Isnt it BCCI's responsibility to satiate the needs of the majority. Obviously the ratios are exaggerated because we haven't reached that state yet. But it will happen one day just like more and more ODI's filled up the cricket calendar, T20 will take over. I used to hate it too because T20 doesn't have many qualities i admire in the other form of the game. But i realized that i enjoyed it and would rather enjoy this format than think about the trivialities like the destruction of test cricket. I cannot do anything about it when the majority wants something else. BCCI would be perfectly profitable without IPL. BCCI was profitable without 30 ODIs every year before 96. Should the BCCI stop growing or seeking avenues to grow?Ask that to a low rung player who now can have a cricketing career without ever donning the India cap, something not possible a decade ago. It benefits almost everyone. Only the message board elitist lose out. Yes BCCI makes more money, but so does the players and everyone involved. Its like a companies stock i hold or where i work. If they get more profits, i will reap the rewards. The only way a company can grow is by adapting. Think of it this way. If Kamran Khan, a dirt poor chap who will never make it to the national team without further training, be able to get a good salary for 3 years and also world class facilities and technical staff to improve his game, hasnt BCCI and IPL done something right.

Free will? Zap, my friend, that was lost the moment Lalit Modi started prescribing unacceptable conditions to the news companies, had the audacity to insert advertisements in between overs, deemed himself to be lord and master of everything he purveys (him acting as a match referee in reporting Gambhir is a case in point) among other things. I am not a protectionist and I do not say that Test cricket needs to be protected. I am of the school of thought that cricket will survive even if this TV crowd is not there. For much of the beauty of the game (as in leaving the ball) is so intensely personal that nobody derives as much excitement and satisfaction from that act as the batsman himself. Spectators who have actually played the game can partake of the vicarious joy. But it does not lend itself to being marketed easily. And certainly not to people who have not played cricket. The opposite is true of T20. I have nothing against that. Expand the market. But dont destroy the game in the process. Not for nothing is 'Promotion' the 3rd P of marketing. The 'Product' P is everything. Without that all is lost. It is just a question of time. I am not begrudging BCCI or the players the money. It is just that so much of deceit and hypocrisy is there in this. What was wrong with ICL when you guys start pitching the free will argument? Truth is, BCCI is just about as far from free will as Sidhu is from suave talk. BCCI has done what Microsoft did in the IT world - only in a far more roughshod way. Smacks of a true bully. And free will should have nothing to do with bullies - dont you think?

[Desi Cartman]

A very good discussion on NDTV ( hindi ) regarding too much kirkit and IPL - kirti azad & kiran more are on the panel http://khabar.ndtv.com/morevideos.aspx?video=nn1216147&status=false&sNm=Video&sSNm=Favourite%20Show&pgno=1

[Vikas Bhatt]

Free will? Zap, my friend, that was lost the moment Lalit Modi started prescribing unacceptable conditions to the news companies, had the audacity to insert advertisements in between overs, deemed himself to be lord and master of everything he purveys (him acting as a match referee in reporting Gambhir is a case in point) among other things. I am not a protectionist and I do not say that Test cricket needs to be protected. I am of the school of thought that cricket will survive even if this TV crowd is not there. For much of the beauty of the game (as in leaving the ball) is so intensely personal that nobody derives as much excitement and satisfaction from that act as the batsman himself. Spectators who have actually played the game can partake of the vicarious joy. But it does not lend itself to being marketed easily. And certainly not to people who have not played cricket. The opposite is true of T20. I have nothing against that. Expand the market. But dont destroy the game in the process. Not for nothing is 'Promotion' the 3rd P of marketing. The 'Product' P is everything. Without that all is lost. It is just a question of time. I am not begrudging BCCI or the players the money. It is just that so much of deceit and hypocrisy is there in this. What was wrong with ICL when you guys start pitching the free will argument? Truth is, BCCI is just about as far from free will as Sidhu is from suave talk. BCCI has done what Microsoft did in the IT world - only in a far more roughshod way. Smacks of a true bully. And free will should have nothing to do with bullies - dont you think?

Seconded. My thoughts exactly!

[f.b.m]

I really doubt that the likes of Sachin and Dhoni 'chose' to play the IPL without some extra pressure or incentive from the BCCI. The commercial implications of big stars opting out are huge and I'm guessing thats something that the BCCI won't risk.

[riya]

Free will? Zap, my friend, that was lost the moment Lalit Modi started prescribing unacceptable conditions to the news companies, had the audacity to insert advertisements in between overs, deemed himself to be lord and master of everything he purveys (him acting as a match referee in reporting Gambhir is a case in point) among other things. I am not a protectionist and I do not say that Test cricket needs to be protected. I am of the school of thought that cricket will survive even if this TV crowd is not there. For much of the beauty of the game (as in leaving the ball) is so intensely personal that nobody derives as much excitement and satisfaction from that act as the batsman himself. Spectators who have actually played the game can partake of the vicarious joy. But it does not lend itself to being marketed easily. And certainly not to people who have not played cricket. The opposite is true of T20. I have nothing against that. Expand the market. But dont destroy the game in the process. Not for nothing is 'Promotion' the 3rd P of marketing. The 'Product' P is everything. Without that all is lost. It is just a question of time. I am not begrudging BCCI or the players the money. It is just that so much of deceit and hypocrisy is there in this. What was wrong with ICL when you guys start pitching the free will argument? Truth is, BCCI is just about as far from free will as Sidhu is from suave talk. BCCI has done what Microsoft did in the IT world - only in a far more roughshod way. Smacks of a true bully. And free will should have nothing to do with bullies - dont you think?

An absolutely quality post that I have seen in recent times in ICF:two_thumbs_up:

[SJS50]

No one is talking about erasing the past. We are talking about going forward. There once was a concept of timeless tests, then a rest day making it a 6 day affair, then down to 5, we now have ODIs and T20s. I wonder how many of you are still for timeless tests. :giggle: I agree T20 as it stands today is pretty raw and one-sided with good fast bowlers having very little say, that said some of them like Zak, Malinga, Bollinger have adjusted well, others like Steyn and Bond have not. I disagree about people getting fed up of T20. If you are a so called purist who will watch nothing but tests (remember for some of you even a ODI was/is pyjama cricket) you are not going to like anything else, that has nothing to do with the format you dislike, more to do with your narrow view of things. I love tests and the 4th innings drama that come on a lively pitch, except that there is one little problem. I rarely get to see them cause I don't have 5 days to watch one game and I suspect not many people do, except ofc you guessed it, the "purists".

The game did not start with timeless Tests and then become of shorter duration as you seem to suggest. Test matches were originally of three day duration only and this went on for four decades. The first time a Test match of more than 3 days was played was in 1912 when the last match of the series was played to finish because the series was tied. The match ended on the fourth day. After that Tests were played over 4 or 5 days. The next test that was played to finish was the last Test of the 1926 Ashes series. This too ended on the fourth day. The first test that ran into the sixth day was the last test of the 1930 series (again played to the finish since series was level at the end of four). Timeless or matches to the finish were tried only to bring the series to a conclusive end if it was still level at the start of the last. Usually they did not go beyond five days even then. The 1938 test, inspite of England scoring over 900 in the first innings, again ended in four days. One can understand why they wanted a result to the series. After all they did not play much Test cricket and players travelled for months over seas from Australia to England (or in the other direction) to play these Tests. It diod seem a shame that the after all this the result should be not be decisive. The idea was given a final burial when the last test of the tour to South Africa by England. THIS TEST went on for nine days and had to be stopped finally or England would have missed their boat which was leaving next morning. It was a pity really for England set an astronomical 696 to win in the 4th innings were doing well at 654 for 5 !! And, by the way, its not necessary to watch a test match right through its 30 hour duration to enjoy it. :) There are enough battles within battles in the longer version for someone who understands the game (I dont know if that is how you define the 'purist') to enjoy it. The famous battle between Donald and Atherton, Gavaskar's valiant 96 in his last Test innings, Kapil's amazing bowling at Adelaide, Mohinder's counter-attack against the West Indian pace merchants are amongst the many examples one can give of how a few hours of riveting battle between bat and ball can be so rewarding. What it needs is not to be a "purist" as you seem to call those who enjoy the longer version with derision, but an appreciation of what is happening with every ball at the bowlers end and at the batsman's end. To scream, rave and rant and wave the cards with the number '6' on them does not require even that - this I do concede.

[bhajji]

sponsors are happy, general public is happy, government is happy, players are happy where is the problem

I would too agree with the same. I dont think that IPL is hurting indain cricket. Yeah the craze and passion among masses in IPL3,2010 seems to be quite depressed as comapred to last two IPL's.on contrary each and every player nad team is getting a chance to prove their potential in the running race of IPL.

[Chandan]

sponsors are happy, general public is happy, government is happy, players are happy where is the problem

Problem is when we won't produce cricketers. Ranji, Deodhar and such domestic tournaments are the ones which bring up new players. And cricket is so dear to Indians because of India's exploits and duels at the international level. And this is where IPL is hurting Indian cricket. Now India won't get to play a single practice match before T20 WC because of IPL. Will this not hurt India's prospects of winning the tournament? If you think otherwise, please answer the questions raised in the following quote:

No it is not taking it too far, especially after having seen how it messed up with Indian domestic cricket schedule. Just because CL ate first 2 weeks and IPL starts from March 12 itself, less than 5 months were available for our domestic cricket tournaments which resulted in getting excessively cramped schedule. During Ranji trophy, there were just the gap of 3 days including the travel time, between the two matches. It put too much of pressure on the players and teams, which generally play 7 FC matches + semi + final + duleep trophy FC matches, were reluctant to go for outright victory as it increased the workload of bowlers with no time to recuperate, hence increasing the chance of injuries. This in turn, skewed the mindset of bowlers who looked to do restrictive bowling rather than thinking of taking a wicket. If this is the way it'll go, India won't produce a single strike bowler, be in pace or spin department, a 5 years from now. Is it not hurting Indian cricket or will hurt it in long run? Because of lack of time, few tournaments have been reduced to joke as if BCCI doesn't care for them and is simply looking for the IPL to arrive. Just look at the Deodhar trophy schedule this year and you'll know. 4 matches in 4 days and the tournament is over. What on earth has Indian cricket gained here? Has its 50 over cricket not been compromised for IPL? Will it not hurt Indian cricket?

If IPL becomes so big as to make international cricket less relevant' date=' and the performances of the next generation of Indian cricketers in Test cricket comes down to the middle-of-the-table level, the whole IPL thing may try to pull away from BCCI and become an independent league. ICL failed because conventional cricket was still too important for players and BCCI was too powerful monetarily. Now BCCI is trying its best to make conventional cricket less important, and the owners of IPL teams are far more richer than BCCI. The owners may soon find that the players are ready to sacrifice international career just for IPL and that they have no need to share the revenues with BCCI. At which point they may try to break away.[/quote'] The day India stops playing cricket internationally, I'll see how much popularity it retains. When there would be no Indian ODI team, no Indian test team and no Indian T20I team, then you can come and tell me how much popularity the game retains and how many players it would throw up for even a league like IPL to continue.

So fking what? Do all the so called "IPL will ruin batsmen" brigade go to a less paying job that is more important in the long run for the country' date=' if they are actually still in India that is. Will they all become social workers to help the country? No? STFU and let players decide how they want to run their life.[/quote'] So you think payment is everything in cricket or any sport? And only payment will sustain it for decades? You need a proper system which thows up players, who in turn prove their worth at various age groups and then if one of the better ones, are chosen for their states and then if they keep on proving their worth, they are chosen for the national team. Does IPL have any such structure in place? And if India won't play international cricket, how are these states going to survive? And if they won't survive, what will happen to the structure? And when there is no structure, where will the cricketers come from?

I say scrap all these 5 day and full day games and start more T-20 leagues around the world. Work on making T-20 the de-facto format. make it such that there are good pitches helpful to the bowlers and make it a good competition between the bat and the ball. Every sport takes at most 3 hours to finish, barring Golf which is almost like watching paint dry so doesn't count. It is time cricket evolved and not expect people to sit on the couch and stare at their TV for 5 days. Enough of this 5 day and full day BS just to see one game complete.

What a naive view! If you hate cricket, you can get off this board and follow something which you like. And if you like cricket, understand how things happen for the cricketers. No one becomes a cricketer overnight.

I would too agree with the same. I dont think that IPL is hurting indain cricket. Yeah the craze and passion among masses in IPL3,2010 seems to be quite depressed as comapred to last two IPL's.on contrary each and every player nad team is getting a chance to prove their potential in the running race of IPL.

Read my above replies and please answer the questions raised there.

[IKnowU]

ODI kirkit should be scrapped. International games excluding test cricket should be scrapped and make domestic t20/20 dominant format throughout the year. This will allow Test cricket to be played in more HYPE and PASSION. Its just a theory even though Im not sure if it will work myself. But it will be easier to manage imo.

[abhinav]

A small excerpt from the Farooq Abdulla interview by Karan Thapar:

Karan Thapar: Alright. Let me accept that. Other may quarrel. Let me then put to you. As a cricket administrator, the confusion and the controversy presently surrounding IPL. Are you, as a cricket administrator, embarrassed by the situation that the IPL finds itself in? Farooq Abdullah: First of all, it is unfortunate the way it has been blown up. Lalit Modi is the one man who really did bring IPL to the world stage. We, are the poorest of the association of cricket. Jammu and Kashmir Cricket association is the poorest. It is because of the IPL and the finances that the BCCI gets that we are able to now develop stadias which normally we couldn't develop.

IPL may not be perfect but it surely is not the biggest evil to descend on earth after Nazism!

[achilles]

Very nice to see Farooq saab seems to hold the same opinion as me-

BCCI has invested money as if it were a piece of paper on stadiums all around the country to prepare for the WC2011 and thanks to the rotation policy' date=' even a Dharmasala and Goa host matches.[/quote'] Farooq Abdullah sahab makes a great point. It goes onto show that there are two sides of a coin. BCCI is not as bad as some of us make it to be.

A very good discussion on NDTV ( hindi ) regarding too much kirkit and IPL - kirti azad & kiran more are on the panel http://khabar.ndtv.com/morevideos.aspx?video=nn1216147&status=false&sNm=Video&sSNm=Favourite%20Show&pgno=1

Are the discussions on NDTV 24/7 uploaded?

[SJS50]

Very nice to see Farooq saab seems to hold the same opinion as me- Farooq Abdullah sahab makes a great point. It goes onto show that there are two sides of a coin. BCCI is not as bad as some of us make it to be. Are the discussions on NDTV 24/7 uploaded?

And of course there is one other minor detail. . . Farroukh Abdullah is a supporter of the NCP Chief Sharad Pawar - the former President of BCCI, the President designate of the ICC and the staunch supporter of Mr Lalit Modi till the point of writing :)

[abhinav]

And of course there is one other minor detail. . . Farroukh Abdullah is a supporter of the NCP Chief Sharad Pawar - the former President of BCCI' date=' the President designate of the ICC and the staunch supporter of Mr Lalit Modi till the point of writing :)[/quote'] Everyone supports somebody, doesn't make every word said by them a lie. If anything, Farroukh has more credibility then a vast majority of India politicians. In a political career of several decades their has never been a stain of corruption on him. Every coin has two sides.

[achilles]

I feel overwhelmed seeing the amount of time we spend here professing negativity about one man who changed the face of the Indian cricket administration.

[mastana]

Where is the poll? :dontknow:

[Chandan]

I feel overwhelmed seeing the amount of time we spend here professing negativity about one man who changed the face of the Indian cricket administration.

In which way? By making the corruption front face of Indian cricket administration? By grinding the players to dust in an inconsequential tournament every year? By taking away whatever professionalism Indian cricket administration had earlier? By cancelling the test series between two of the world's top sides for that meaningless tournament which is destroying Indian cricket? Open your eyes achilles! If you love Indian cricket, just see how much damage is being done here, by IPL!

Where is the poll? :dontknow:

This is a discussion thread Mastana. If you have any points, do contribute.

[mastana]

In which way? By making the corruption front face of Indian cricket administration? By grinding the players to dust in an inconsequential tournament every year? By taking away whatever professionalism Indian cricket administration had earlier? By cancelling the test series between two of the world's top sides for that meaningless tournament which is destroying Indian cricket? Open your eyes achilles! If you love Indian cricket, just see how much damage is being done here, by IPL! This is a discussion thread Mastana. If you have any points, do contribute.

You are wasting your time dude. Some of them are hardcore Modi fans. For them Modi is the best thing ever happened to Indian cricket. I won't be surprised if these Modi fans choose Modi over Sachin Tendulkar if we start a poll on them. Some comments from these fans in the other thread were "if you hate modi then you must be a paki lover or terrorism supporter" "modi ko sab khoon maaf" "I know he is corrupt but still he is the best" They think Modi made the IPL. They don't know its indian public who made IPL what it is today. Modi took a popular product(cricket) in India and made it even more popular with the help of BCCI. Without the support of BCCI he is nothing. If he is such a good businessman then ask him to make football popular just like cricket is in India. And yes IPL will start to hurt Indian cricket from next season onwards. 94 games damn..

[Chandan]

You are wasting your time dude. Some of them are hardcore Modi fans. For them Modi is the best thing ever happened to Indian cricket. I won't be surprised if these Modi fans choose Modi over Sachin Tendulkar if we start a poll on them. They think Modi made the IPL. They don't know its indian public who made IPL what it is today. Modi took a popular product(cricket) in India and made it even more popular with the help of BCCI. Without the support of BCCI he is nothing. If he is such a good businessman then ask him to make football popular just like cricket is in India. And yes IPL will start to hurt Indian cricket from next season onwards. 94 games damn..

Don't think so Mastana. Everyone loves cricket here. People love Modi here because they think IPL is something of an achievement for Indian cricket. They have not paid attention to the damages it is causing to Indian cricket and cricket in general. The day they'll realise about these aspects, they will stop loving him. I don't have any problem with Modi in particular, as the entire BCCI is only money minded. Why blame Modi alone here? BCCI is the parent body of Indian cricket and they should look after it.