Guest dada_rocks Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head Until people admit that Koran is the product of human inperfection and should be INTERPRETED by a free thinking person... I am sorry to say... Islam will never progress... :wtg: Aqua has partially accepted that it's flawed, the moment someone resorts to pointing out flaws in other religion if questioned about their own faith you should be sure about one thing their faith is illogical and it doesn;t make sense to them too but inertia is keeping them within the fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head Yes you guys wash everything except from where fart comes' date= what's the point tell me. Talking of no contradicting sentences in Quran. I got a nice chuckle :lmao: :lmao: That book is nothing btu contradiction. You will have to bear with me and promise you won't disappear I promise you to overwhelm with contradictions. First of let me have the clarity on what do u mean by contradictions. Do you mean verses which are not in line with the existing verifiable knowledge in public domain or you mean one verse of the book contradicting another verse. You can choose whichever defintion you want I promise you I will paint this place red with the examples of that particular genre of contradiction. A fart is only gas that comes out of a 'dirty place' So if if no mess is made whats the point of washing up there? Also im telling u agn, the washing hands bit is not just the hand but also making of an intention b4 we do the rituals. By contradictions i mean one verse saying something and another saying the total opposite. Ok lets see. So u are going to povide tht? Great from the Quran right? Ok, ive got the translation with me... I will check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head nope' date=' but my dad did. I plan to too, but not right now.[/quote'] Bible dad read quran some mullah read and they fed you and you flash those words as ultimate truth .. There is something called transmission line loss in communication :wtg: what do you mean? anyway, what i meant is that my dad has read the quran translations and now is onto the Bible.He compares it to the Quran. He does it in frnt of us and he reads it to us too... frm diff parts of the bible.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head nope' date=' but my dad did. I plan to too, but not right now.[/quote'] Bible dad read quran some mullah read and they fed you and you flash those words as ultimate truth .. There is something called transmission line loss in communication :wtg: what do you mean? anyway, what i meant is that my dad has read the quran translations and now is onto the Bible.He compares it to the Quran. He does it in frnt of us and he reads it to us too... frm diff parts of the bible.... My suggestion read it yourself then we will talk this hand-held opinion shaping well never give the real picture. My tranmisison line loss I mean your dad is most certainly a smart intelligent person and he must modulate things which he reads with his own spin. Even if u consider your dad has no axe to grind I will say it still happens albeit unconsciously so do read those texts yourself if u want to get the clearer picture. And yes do let me know on what you meant by contradiction I am etching to provide you myriad contradictions in quran of both genre which i outlines in earlier posts. Quran is full of contradictions in fact it has several verses serving the justification of contradiction inherent in quran, where allah presumably claims in cases of contradictions the verse which comes later trumps the older ones. See why would any book sans contradictions have provisions like this. If your dad thinks otherwise he is either not giving you the whole truth or he has not read it in entirety. Just let me know what kind of contradictions you are looking for you will get exactly that. PS: Please don't mibd me quetioning your dad's intent or ability to act like an ideal transmisison line. It's next to impossible to achieve that. Even my father when I askd him as a child why do Gods get appeased by slaughter of any living creature trust me I didn't get any convincing answer. Albeit he didn't approve this and was of the view that symbolically coconut can be broken in place of slaughter. It's another matter that I have problem with that symbolic replacement too because it somehow attaches sanctitiy to that abhorrant live animal slaughter practice which must be preserved symbolically. Mind you my father is pure vegetarian has always been like that but I otoh can eat anything and everything which my taste bud endorses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baadshah Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head most of the book has nothing to d with spirituality........ i asked one guy so farting breaks th wazoo then how come washing hands restores it.. i mean fault is somewhere else and corrective measures for some place else.......... nothing makes sense.. :lmao: This is what i mean, D_r. You have no idea what you're talking about, yet you still don't think twice before posting absolute tripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baadshah Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head Sorry to say Aqua, you also seem to be ignorant on the facts of Wudhu. If a person breaks winds, farts, urinates etc. then the whole Wudhu needs to be performed again and Wudhu always starts with the washing of a person's private areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head most of the book has nothing to d with spirituality........ i asked one guy so farting breaks th wazoo then how come washing hands restores it.. i mean fault is somewhere else and corrective measures for some place else.......... nothing makes sense.. :lmao: This is what i mean, D_r. You have no idea what you're talking about, yet you still don't think twice before posting absolute tripe. at least that girl tried to refute it unlike u sir......... :wall: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head most of the book has nothing to d with spirituality........ i asked one guy so farting breaks th wazoo then how come washing hands restores it.. i mean fault is somewhere else and corrective measures for some place else.......... nothing makes sense.. :lmao: This is what i mean, D_r. You have no idea what you're talking about, yet you still don't think twice before posting absolute tripe. He might very well not be correct .... but the reasoning on how you arrived at that conclusion is exactly where ... ? he knows i am right... do u want exact reference mate.. let me know always at ur service :wtg: alternativel you can just google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head Addressed to Aqua: Regarding your comaprison of hindus taking dip in polluted ganag water to this illogical wazoo restoration method. I have to add this see at some point of time in past taking bath in river was the only way of body cleansing no hot and cold water tap were available back then and moreover ganges water has nt always been polluted so that tradition which started way back in past people are still hanging on to that. OTOH you can't possibly claim that at certain point in past somehow hand was connected to you know what and hence the practice started. This has been illogical from the word go no rhyme or reason whatsoever. And there you go first dose of contradiction not only for quran but for any abrhamic religion or for that matter any religion which doesn't believe in concept of re-birth. So allah god whoever he/she/it is; supposedly is claimed to be merciful and just. Now in this world some individual gets born with silver spoon in his/her mouth others are born in utter poverty so abject that they sometimes hardly survive beyond their initial days. Some are born all healthy and some are born with congential life-threatening disease. Some are born utterly ugly with disfigured face whereas others are born with adonis/cleaopatra kind of look. Now you tell me what's the basis of this kind of naked partiality on that socalled just and merciful allah/god after all eveyrbody's slate is supposed to be clean in; you get one birth kind of philosphy; so they all must get equal share of fortune or misfortune at the time of birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baadshah Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head most of the book has nothing to d with spirituality........ i asked one guy so farting breaks th wazoo then how come washing hands restores it.. i mean fault is somewhere else and corrective measures for some place else.......... nothing makes sense.. :lmao: This is what i mean, D_r. You have no idea what you're talking about, yet you still don't think twice before posting absolute tripe. He might very well not be correct .... but the reasoning on how you arrived at that conclusion is exactly where ... ? he knows i am right... do u want exact reference mate.. let me know always at ur service :wtg: alternativel you can just google Go ahead. Provide me the reference/proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baadshah Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head most of the book has nothing to d with spirituality........ i asked one guy so farting breaks th wazoo then how come washing hands restores it.. i mean fault is somewhere else and corrective measures for some place else.......... nothing makes sense.. :lmao: This is what i mean, D_r. You have no idea what you're talking about, yet you still don't think twice before posting absolute tripe. He might very well not be correct .... but the reasoning on how you arrived at that conclusion is exactly where ... ? Where's the reasoning he used to arrive at his conclusion? Why is it that i am the only one who needs to back up my claims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head So u want me to do the hard work.. Will do but before that what's ur beef with the views expressed here... i need this info before emarking on that exercise. (1) you claim islam is silent on this issue (2) It breaks wazoo but restoration takes more than hand and face washing, u need to take bath or clean the appropriate body part involved in fart (3) You need to take full body bath And yes some personal info too You are (1) Quran only muslim (2) quran+ hadith ( in this case which of the hadith you accept and which u don't. i am talking in terms of author not your own cherry picking kind of.. (3) are you shia or sunni You might say why these things matter but trust me it does. I have had too many debates with islamic folks and know that they change course mid-way saying I don't believe in this or that. It would be helpful to know upfront and will save me time in case u don't believe in certain things . PS: Note see just here you are outrightly refusing this farting wazoo issue whereas Aqua another muslm dare i say smart oen to that, by her attempt to explain it; is acquiscing to the fact that yes these things do exist in quran+hadith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head Well it seems it's taking u sometime in reverting back meanwhile I will go ahead with my response anyway....... There u go Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 139: Narrated 'Abbas bin Tamim: My uncle asked Allah's Apostle about a person who imagined to have passed wind during the prayer. Allah' Apostle replied: "He should not leave his prayers unless he hears sound or smells something." So farting does break wuduu if it?s smelly or comes with a sound because it kind of covers both cases. Quite ones are deadly and ones with flair not so muchJ Here a Mufti talks about what needs to be done to restore it and he only talks about wuduu which doesn?t involve cleaning the part where form fart comes out. http://www.shariahboard.com/fatwa/Wudhu/2397.php From Sahih Bukhari http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/004.sbt.html#001.004.137 Volume 1, Book 4, Number 137: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The prayer of a person who does ,Hadath (passes, urine, stool or wind) is not accepted till he performs (repeats) the ablution." A person from Hadaramout asked Abu Huraira, "What is 'Hadath'?" Abu Huraira replied, " 'Hadath' means the passing of wind from the anus." Volume 1, Book 4, Number 139: Narrated 'Abbas bin Tamim: My uncle asked Allah's Apostle about a person who imagined to have passed wind during the prayer. Allah' Apostle replied: "He should not leave his prayers unless he hears sound or smells something." Volume 1, Book 4, Number 157: Narrated Abu Huraira: I followed the Prophet while he was going out to answer the call of nature. He used not to look this way or that. So, when I approached near him he said to me, "Fetch for me some stones for ' cleaning the privates parts (or said something similar), and do not bring a bone or a piece of dung." So I brought the stones in the corner of my garment and placed them by his side and I then went away from him. When he finished (from answering the call of nature) he used, them . Volume 1, Book 4, Number 162: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Whoever performs ablution should clean his nose with water by putting the water in it and then blowing it out, and whoever cleans his private parts with stones should do it with odd number of stones." here another site for muslim converts gives details on what to do when pass gas in middle of prayer. http://www.help-for-the-convert.net/purification.htm Minor Impurities and the Purification Method The purifying of your body is called wudu. The passing of excrement, gas, urine, vomiting, bleeding, touching of sexual organs without clothing, falling into a deep sleep, and laughing loudly during salaat can all break your wudu. Once wudu is preformed and not broken you may perform multiple prayers. Here are some instructions to follow for performing wudu. To perform Wudu you should first make the intention (Niyyat) to perform Wudu. Call upon Allah at the start of Wudu by saying Bismillah. 1. Wash the hands 3 times up to the wrists with water, allowing water to run between the fingers. 2. Rinse the mouth with water three times. 3. Clean the nostrils by sniffing water in then out 3 times. 4. Clean the face 3 times from the top of the forehead down to the chin and from ear to ear. 5. Wash the arms three times, from the elbows right arm first, then left. 6. Moisten the hands and pass them over the head from the forehead to the back of the hairline, and from there back to the forehead. 7. Wipe the earlobes with the fore-fingers cleaning the inside of the ears and the thumbs cleaning the external side. 8. Wash both feet beginning with the right foot up to the ankles allowing the water to run between each toe. PS: In my experienceon debate with muslim I have found few things which I will enlist here.hey all will start with feigned ignorance state hoping that the person laying claims may not take pains to produce the relevant reference. Next line of defence is well this is not shahi hadith, this is shia interpretation. When that is done they will say it?s hadith not quran and I am quran only muslim but fact is hadith and quran are inter-twined one doesn?t make sense without other. At least quran needs hadith for interpretation. When it is doen they will say well hadith is not 100 percetn original well fact is other than four person instead of one person verifying hadith story quran too is equally dubious in terms of orginil word of allh through muhd being recorded . It?s simple probability all u do in one case is cut down the probability of error by 4 times u can?t eliminate it. In fact they started coding quran when found so many verses written on some small leaves were devoured by rats. When all else fails then the final weapon is you are taking it out of context. You provide context too then you are branded islamo-phobic and debate ends there and they proclaim victory. I hope I didn?t leave any evolutionary stage of debate with a muslim gentleman. This is the theme which plays every time. So my request to you next time let us drop this charade and come to the main topic directly this dilly-dallying with myriad tricks at every instance gets kind of annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head Where's the reasoning he used to arrive at his conclusion? Why is it that i am the only one who needs to back up my claims? I provided u with everything and I am still waiting for ur racist claim to be corroborated. Hope no dilatory tactics get emplyed anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head Sorry to say Aqua' date=' you also seem to be ignorant on the facts of Wudhu. If a person breaks winds, farts, urinates etc. then the whole Wudhu needs to be performed again and Wudhu always starts with the washing of a person's private areas.[/quote'] I think i mentioned this, but only if a mess was made.... otherwise it is unnessessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head nope' date=' but my dad did. I plan to too, but not right now.[/quote'] Bible dad read quran some mullah read and they fed you and you flash those words as ultimate truth .. There is something called transmission line loss in communication :wtg: what do you mean? anyway, what i meant is that my dad has read the quran translations and now is onto the Bible.He compares it to the Quran. He does it in frnt of us and he reads it to us too... frm diff parts of the bible.... My suggestion read it yourself then we will talk this hand-held opinion shaping well never give the real picture. My tranmisison line loss I mean your dad is most certainly a smart intelligent person and he must modulate things which he reads with his own spin. Even if u consider your dad has no axe to grind I will say it still happens albeit unconsciously so do read those texts yourself if u want to get the clearer picture. And yes do let me know on what you meant by contradiction I am etching to provide you myriad contradictions in quran of both genre which i outlines in earlier posts. Quran is full of contradictions in fact it has several verses serving the justification of contradiction inherent in quran, where allah presumably claims in cases of contradictions the verse which comes later trumps the older ones. See why would any book sans contradictions have provisions like this. If your dad thinks otherwise he is either not giving you the whole truth or he has not read it in entirety. Just let me know what kind of contradictions you are looking for you will get exactly that. PS: Please don't mibd me quetioning your dad's intent or ability to act like an ideal transmisison line. It's next to impossible to achieve that. Even my father when I askd him as a child why do Gods get appeased by slaughter of any living creature trust me I didn't get any convincing answer. Albeit he didn't approve this and was of the view that symbolically coconut can be broken in place of slaughter. It's another matter that I have problem with that symbolic replacement too because it somehow attaches sanctitiy to that abhorrant live animal slaughter practice which must be preserved symbolically. Mind you my father is pure vegetarian has always been like that but I otoh can eat anything and everything which my taste bud endorses. i know tht u aint in my family but this does not mean tht u have to say this... my dads policy is he reads it, he passes it arnd and then we sort of debate to come to a common point if not it will be carried on till we sort of forget abt it... Yeah, i do realise abt this communication problem and stuff and yes it is on my list of books to be read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head So u want me to do the hard work.. Will do but before that what's ur beef with the views expressed here... i need this info before emarking on that exercise. (1) you claim islam is silent on this issue (2) It breaks wazoo but restoration takes more than hand and face washing, u need to take bath or clean the appropriate body part involved in fart (3) You need to take full body bath And yes some personal info too You are (1) Quran only muslim (2) quran+ hadith ( in this case which of the hadith you accept and which u don't. i am talking in terms of author not your own cherry picking kind of.. (3) are you shia or sunni You might say why these things matter but trust me it does. I have had too many debates with islamic folks and know that they change course mid-way saying I don't believe in this or that. It would be helpful to know upfront and will save me time in case u don't believe in certain things . PS: Note see just here you are outrightly refusing this farting wazoo issue whereas Aqua another muslm dare i say smart oen to that, by her attempt to explain it; is acquiscing to the fact that yes these things do exist in quran+hadith. lets start with quran only... cos hadith are words of the prophets which are used as advice only by me... it is up to us if we want to follow it or not... so lets keep tht out... Shia or Sunni, ive never even heard of such terms maybe as other term but i can say that im syafi'i... if tht makes sense to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head thx D_r for the info you have provided... I'm running out of time... How abt we pause this thread for a while till the Feb 19, after which i will be free-er... thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head thx D_r for the info you have provided... I'm running out of time... How abt we pause this thread for a while till the Feb 19' date=' after which i will be free-er... thx.[/quote'] :wtg: Good studies come first..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Look at me I got spiritual horns on my head So u want me to do the hard work.. Will do but before that what's ur beef with the views expressed here... i need this info before emarking on that exercise. (1) you claim islam is silent on this issue (2) It breaks wazoo but restoration takes more than hand and face washing, u need to take bath or clean the appropriate body part involved in fart (3) You need to take full body bath And yes some personal info too You are (1) Quran only muslim (2) quran+ hadith ( in this case which of the hadith you accept and which u don't. i am talking in terms of author not your own cherry picking kind of.. (3) are you shia or sunni You might say why these things matter but trust me it does. I have had too many debates with islamic folks and know that they change course mid-way saying I don't believe in this or that. It would be helpful to know upfront and will save me time in case u don't believe in certain things . PS: Note see just here you are outrightly refusing this farting wazoo issue whereas Aqua another muslm dare i say smart oen to that, by her attempt to explain it; is acquiscing to the fact that yes these things do exist in quran+hadith. lets start with quran only... cos hadith are words of the prophets which are used as advice only by me... it is up to us if we want to follow it or not... so lets keep tht out... Shia or Sunni, ive never even heard of such terms maybe as other term but i can say that im syafi'i... if tht makes sense to you... Aqua those questions were meant for baadshah. I consider u an intellectual honest person and those questions are not relavnt in your case for the dishonest one I need those informations.. BTW u can't really see quran in isolation most of the part will hardly make any sense. Hadith gives explantion for the verses in quran so to say that I am quran-only muslim is kind of illogical in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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