Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

[CC1981]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

Errmmmm Try reading up on Lord Vishnu's various incarnations .... they invariably have a Military campaign to weed out the Evil .... along with a justification for such measures.

Yes. WHat you are 'missing' is that in Hindu beleifs, a Krishna avatar is born to 'take care' of stuff when stuff goes too out of control. It is not a Hindu's perogative to go kill people in other lands out of 'pre-empting' them however.

If you dont understand the underlying message in that then

Oh i understand the bloodthirsty genocidal character of Parashuram very well indeed. Mark that up as another reason why i quit Hinduism. Parashuram is a charcter, as far as i am concerned, is a bloodthirsty angry man who has no problem killing an army for a small deal such as perceived insult.

[CC1981]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

So much for the Hinduism=Ahimsa theory

It is for the followers. I was under the impression that you knew atleast this much about HInduism that the scriptures always differentiates between what can/cannot be done by a God avatar and by common people! for example, the reasoning Krishna gave to Balaram for his actions are beyond that of an ordinary man, since Krishna claims karmic superiority (knowing how the karma chain will span out). In short, you are not authorised to follow in Parashuram or Krishna's footsteps because you are not a God-avatar with perfect knowledge. If you'd actually read the Gita, surely, you'd have realized that. Oh and Hinduism = Ahmisa is NOT a theory but an integral part of Hinduism. Adi Shankara and Swami Vivekananda, both of whom knew a zillion times more about hinduism than you, emphatically stated that Ahimsa is a fundamental concept of hinduism. By doubting this, not only are you displaying your ignorance, you are insulting the words of some of the greatest hindu religious characters, who, ironically, didn't ask people to go on a Crusade. I dont think your Golwalkar and RSS types have any moral authority over what Vivekananda said.

[CC1981]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

**SIGH** Pls explain me the "cause" for the Parasuram avatar ... TIA

Why ? What will that accomplish ? Regardless of what the cause is of his 'arrival', his butchery and his 'wandering', the scriptures make it amply clear that he gets to do what he does NOT because he is a 'fighter for dharma' like you but because he has DIVINE KNOWLEDGE and thus is learned enough to take responsible actions. You, categorically, are NOT authorised to follow in Parashuram's footsteps, unless you really believe that you are a Krishna-avatar or Shiva-avatar too. What is the use in getting into a debate over why/what Parashuram did, when the basic fact that you or i or any common person is NOT allowed to 'do a Parashuram' ?!? Its like debating how someone got into the VIP lounge when you ain't getting inside it anyways! Anyways, Swami Vivekanada, the greatest Hindu scholar of modern times, has openly said that Hinduism is a faith that values Ahimsa as one of its prime virtues. Are you going to call into question Vivekananda's knowledge or are you going to retract the 'myth' comment you made ? If you want 'proof' of this - i can tell you precisely where and which writings of Vivekananda you should read.

[CC1981]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

Why ? What will that accomplish ?

Try it ... since you are that confident of your "theory" it shouldnt matter na ?

Err..what ?!? Why debate a person's actions when it has already been made clear to you that this person was not ordinary ( according to beliefs, he was a God-avatar!!!!!) and you are not allowed to do what he did ? Its purely academic to debate this, because regardless of what conclusion we come for Parashuram's motivations and his 'goodness' or 'badness', you or i are not authorized by Hinduism to do what Parashuram did. So therefore,by logic, what Parashuram did is irrelevant to what a hindu should/shouldn't do !

[CC1981]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

Why debate a person's actions

Not actions .... the "CAUSE" ... the "reason" Lord Vishnu came down ...

Arrey baba what will that accomplish ?!? So whatever cause Vishu came down ( to fight adharm, to pick up chicks, to eat some wild berries, to smoke pot, etc etc) it is merely academic because you or I cannot use the same 'causes' to take similar steps - doing that would be gross violation of Hinduism. So what difference does it make ? Whatever action he took, whatever the cause is, we cannot 'do the same'. So why bring in an example of something 'we cannot do/are prohibited from doing' when discussing what an ordinary hindu should/shouldn't do ?!?

[CC1981]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

Arrey baba what will that accomplish ?!?

FFS what are you afraid of ? Just answer the question ... but if it hurts your ego so much to answer a simple question then maybe you should not get into debates. Jeeez :shrug:

Umm okay. He came to fight Adharm in a time when Dharma was forgotten by the Kshatriyas. Happy ? So now what ? It somehow proves that Hinduism is 'okay' with you to go wandering around the earth fighting Adharm or take pre-emptive strike?!? NO !!!!! Because Hinduism flatly states that God-avatars are not bound by the same rules you and I are. So now what ? I find it strange that a Hindu refuses to accept the peaceful nature of hinduism and advocates crusades/jihads against infidels all over the world. Wait a minute...are you really a hindu or is this some sort of hybrid hindu-fundamentalist islamic stuff you follow ?!? :shrug:

[CC1981]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

So the kshatriyas are the defacto protectors/enforcers of "Dharma" in a Hindu society ... Right ?

Supposedly so...but what does it prove or how does it affect what a hindu can/cannot do ? Your argument of ' we should take pre-emptive action, not just defensive action' is fundamentally flawed because : a) You are not a God-avatar so you cannot take pre-emptive action b) According to Brahmasutra, not even Gods can take pre-emptive action because not even Gods are all knowing( reason given by Bramha to demonstrate why the hell didn't Krishna come around and strangle all 100 kids of Gandhari right after their birth) c) For a follower of hinduism, the adherence to ahimsa is a must- this is categorically proven by Vivekananda.

[CC1981]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

This in itself is proof of the fact that military was a integral part of the Hindu society

If you mean really ancient times, like before the recorded history (and assuming that there is some true incidents behind Ramayana/Mahabharata) of that era, then yes you are correct. if you mean in context of the last 1000 years, then no,you are wrong. In this Kali yug, Kshatriyas have mostly engaged in political gains rather than being defenders of the faith. However, it does not prove any Kshatriya-led continuous fighting in the gangetic plains area that was under muslim domination for pretty much 600 years straight. And furthermore, now do you see why your 'pre-emptive strike' concept is flawed ? Anyways, 4:30- time to bug out. cheers till next week.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

I find it offensive that people call RSS right wing fundamentalist and will not extend the same courtesy to Muslim League.

Err. When did i say that the ML is not fundamentalist either ?

CC , it wasn't meant for you personally . If you feel both RSS and ML are fundamentalist , then you are being consistent. That's the only point I was trying to drive.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

I knew this debate too will go for ever and pretty soon noone will be able to tell what was being discussed; reason too much room for passing off opinions as facts and indulging in drivelous word-play. Same characters run away the moment topic precludes these opinion based debatics. Boss ji you are wasting your time. He is not going to accept anything if all else fails in the end he might give u email address of some of his learned friend :-) or brandish some yet to be finished degree (Jaise ham ghuinya chhilte hon). :wall: Waise achchha hai kam se kam thread khich to raha hai :lmao:

D_R , you asked me to repsond before and I did .The ball is in your court now!

[CC1981]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

I find it offensive that people call RSS right wing fundamentalist and will not extend the same courtesy to Muslim League.

Err. When did i say that the ML is not fundamentalist either ?

CC , it wasn't meant for you personally . If you feel both RSS and ML are fundamentalist , then you are being consistent. That's the only point I was trying to drive.

Ok. fair enough. I find that here, the mentality of some posters is such that if you criticise something that is fundie hinduvta nonsense, you are automatically assumed to be sympathetic to even stupider fundie muslim nonsense. I personally don't like organized religion in any form. As Vivekananda said,religion should never ever figure for a motive to do anything on a group level : your religion is completely personal and should be kept as such. Which is why, i don't even think very highly of those Buddhist parties in Sri Lanka, despite me being a buddhist. Hope you have a good weekend.

[Lurker]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

I personally don't like organized religion in any form. As Vivekananda said' date='religion should never ever figure for a motive to do anything on a group level : your religion is completely personal and should be kept as such.[/quote'] Oragnized religion is a modern world phenomenon. It was certainly not so during the time of its formation. Take any religion and you will see what I am saying. Did Buddha lead an organized religion? Or did Mohammed lead an organized religion? True they were spiritual head of their own followers but would someone be killed simply because he criticized Mohammed at the time? I do not think so. Today he very well may be. Similarly with Hinduism. Rama heard a lot of criticism from his subjects, I am sure we all know about the dhobi who wondered about the chastity of Sita after having spent time under Ravana's hostage. Today if a person raises the same question the consequences would be lot more devastating for him I beleive. xxxx

[Dhondy]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

So whatever cause Vishu came down ( to fight adharm, to pick up chicks, to eat some wild berries, to smoke pot, etc etc) it is merely academic

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts Some here are comparing muhamamd with buddha. This kind of totally lopsided comarision drives u nuts. Here is one guy who mercilessly got beheaded all post-pubescent male member of a Jewish tribe just because they didn't come to his rescue in his war games against Makkans and u guessed it women got the usual fate of sex-slave and we are compariing this guy with buddha who will not hurt even a fly. How many more examples of muhammad's killing spree you want I can procure you from quran+hadith not based on opinions of xyz. Now go ahead find me some killing spree of Buddha. Till you can do this well this remains comparison between chalk and cheese.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

I knew this debate too will go for ever and pretty soon noone will be able to tell what was being discussed; reason too much room for passing off opinions as facts and indulging in drivelous word-play. Same characters run away the moment topic precludes these opinion based debatics. Boss ji you are wasting your time. He is not going to accept anything if all else fails in the end he might give u email address of some of his learned friend :-) or brandish some yet to be finished degree (Jaise ham ghuinya chhilte hon). :wall: Waise achchha hai kam se kam thread khich to raha hai :lmao:

D_R , you asked me to repsond before and I did .The ball is in your court now!

Man I didn't even get to read your response it got lost somewhere. We now are discussing comparative quality of buddha and muhamamd :-) whatever that means.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

Some here are comparing muhamamd with buddha. This kind of totally lopsided comarision drives u nuts. Here is one guy who mercilessly got beheaded all post-pubescent male member of a Jewish tribe just because they didn't come to his rescue in his war games against Makkans and u guessed it women got the usual fate of sex-slave and we are compariing this guy with buddha who will not hurt even a fly. How many more examples of muhammad's killing spree you want I can procure you from quran+hadith not based on opinions of xyz. Now go ahead find me some killing spree of Buddha. Till you can do this well this remains comparison between chalk and cheese.

Would you condone somebody who leaves his wife and young child to fend for themselves just to attain personal manic nirvana ? I don't care about how sheltered life and how seeing the misery of his subjets changed him yada yada yada. First obligation should be towards your young child.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

Some here are comparing muhamamd with buddha. This kind of totally lopsided comarision drives u nuts. Here is one guy who mercilessly got beheaded all post-pubescent male member of a Jewish tribe just because they didn't come to his rescue in his war games against Makkans and u guessed it women got the usual fate of sex-slave and we are compariing this guy with buddha who will not hurt even a fly. How many more examples of muhammad's killing spree you want I can procure you from quran+hadith not based on opinions of xyz. Now go ahead find me some killing spree of Buddha. Till you can do this well this remains comparison between chalk and cheese.

Would you condone somebody who leaves his wife and young child to fend for themselves just to attain personal manic nirvana ? I don't care about how sheltered life and how seeing the misery of his subjets changed him yada yada yada. First obligation should be towards your young child.

U need to read about buddhism first Buddha doesn't expect this from anybody he was the guru went in search of truth fully aware that hsi wife and children will no starve ......after attainmet of nirvan he did pay visit and clarify it.. And yes answering the original question I will condone the peson with higher morals who thinks for larger goods of socieity beyond his wife and son anyday... see the difference; in order to criticise buddha how high of the morality ground u have to transcend even there it's matter of opinion, but with muhd well noone ever touches these things hiding behind it was oke in those days to kill heck i say if we are goign to defend his actions based on thsi logic then where is the need to preach a new doctrine whatever he wanted to change was oke in those days so if killign could be justified so could other things........ comparisn buddhua to thsi individual is like abusing that great soul called buddha..

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

U need to read about buddhism first Buddha doesn't expect this from anybody he was the guru went in search of truth fully aware that hsi wife and children will no starve ......after attainmet of nirvan he did pay visit and clarify it.. And yes answering the original question I will condone the peson with higher morals who thinks for larger goods of socieity beyond his wife and son anyday... see the difference; in order to criticise buddha how high of the morality ground u have to transcend even there it's matter of opinion, but with muhd well noone ever touches these things hiding behind it was oke in those days to kill heck i say if we are goign to defend his actions based on thsi logic then where is the need to preach a new doctrine whatever he wanted to change was oke in those days so if killign could be justified so could other things........ comparisn buddhua to thsi individual is like abusing that great soul called buddha..

Read my post , where did I compare Muhammed and Buddha . I asked a you question and got my response . Why marry in the first place and worst still , have kids if your priorities are attaining nirvana. That's why we had the 4 stages in Hinduism with brahmachari being the last stage. As regards to the Prophet , I am not a big fan of him , but billion people are and their must be something right about his teachings. Also, Your posts always reflect selective criticism and you to tend to be dogmatic when it comes to defending our religion. I question Indian Gods like Rama , Krishna etc . You don't and that's where lies the difference.

[Anakin]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts KR, you need to study what the prophet said and at least some basic principles of hinduism to realize how these gods/devas are just tools beside its main point. Just because billions of people just believe in something (although it is a brainwashing process starting from very childhood) doesn't mean what the prophet said is right or profound. And if you think so, you shouldn't really complain when they kill kafirs and post the video online. They are just doing their duties.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Why Hinduism doesn't seek converts

KR' date=' you need to study what the prophet said and at least some basic principles of hinduism to realize how these gods/devas are just tools beside its main point. Just because billions of people just believe in something (although it is a brainwashing process starting from very childhood) doesn't mean what the prophet said is right or profound. And if you think so, you shouldn't really complain when they kill kafirs and post the video online. They are just doing their duties.[/quote'] If you read my posts, I am not a big fan of Abrahamic religions and I , unlike the so called psecs( term which you and others use) am willing to state my position very clearly without fear or favour example being Sharia , Burqa , Double Standards of Islamic countries etc I am not a big fan of Islamic teachings ,but I find it funny that posters indulge in selective criticism and post irrational and dogmatic arguments in support of their gods and beliefs. I have studied basic principles of Hinduism and Buddhism and I am willing to represent my view point pragmatically. I asked a very simple question about Buddha , why don't you answer it.