CC1981 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. Hence there are no innocents per se. False. An innocent is one who hasn't done anything wrong, regardless of what ideology they follow. In our dharmic philosophies,one is not responsible for the action of others, only oneself. Any sort of generic action against a group of 150 million people is bound to affect innocent people within that group who did nothing. Yet krishna explains how its valid to fight them in the battle field as explained in those verses posted in my previous post It is one thing fighitng those who are dutybound to fight, its another thing fighting innocent people who have nothing to do personally with the situation. and that the guy(s) who needed to act were the protectors i.e the Kshtrayias. Yes and i am telling you that what counts as 'protection' is a very fine line determined by the brahmins. And as a former brahmin, i can categorically say that your policies are completely adharmic and find no support whatsoever from the religious texts. It is one thing to defend, its quite another to go invade others in the name of defending as you tend to advocate. The latter is not supported in our culture. As i said, instead of following a bunch of wannabes who don't really understand or know the scriptures well (your average hinduvta retard), it'd be much wiser to follow great men like Vivekananda and Chaitanya. They had complete grasp of hinduism to realize what is and what is not allowed to a hindu and it is no coincidence that they took a pacifistic approach to dharma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. CC, In my short stint with this message board, I have read some of your posts and I have to be honest with you , it's difficult to concur with your thought process. I am not debating your intellectual capacity , far from it , you come across as extremely knowledgable , BUT your views are so different ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. i find some of CCs comments about hinduism, being from a different religion himself, very offensive..... can the mods please take note.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. Bheems.... i dont want to discuss the intricacies of our religion with an outsider who tries to slyly paint our religion bad, while u r pointlessly debating with him..... Being an outsider, he has no right to talk about how important Gita is to our religion.... it is very simple... I have observed him for a loooong time, how he cleverly disses hinduism while protectiing his religion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. and you call the followers of such ideology as innocent ? Yes. Yes i do. Read the Bhagwat Purana. It explicitly states that regardless of what a person's ideological affiliations are, a person is judged only by their action. So therefore, regardless of any cult you can bring up - muslims, thuggees, etc etc - if there are members in that group who have personally done no harm to others, they are innocent. And you are NOT allowed to knowingly cause them harm (ie, take any action that'll knowingly cause harm to the innocents) I suppose ourscriptures order us to sit tight and ignore when the rogue next to us is in the process of acquiring Brahmastra(nukes) solely to destroy us ? It advocates politics and negotiations in that scenario. NOT outright invasion to deal with the problem. Categorically unspported by our scriptures that philosophy is! Are you telling me that only Brahmins are capable of understanding Dharma and adharma as of today. No. But the reason Brahmins were capable of understanding dharma and adharma better than anyone else in the past- and still today- is because they actually READ the scriptures themselves instead of just listening to opinions of hinduvaadi parties. This is the reason hinduism is declining/moving away from its core principles so fast. The Brahmanical society which gave our society direction is missing. Sure, the brahmins caused a lot of evil in India - caste system, meaningless rituals, etc etc- but they were also drilled into our philosophical and religious texts quite well ( still happens in some brahmin families during and leading up to the upanayan) and could see where/what is applicable or not or more to the point- where the fine line is. This is why what you propose ( ethnic cleansing of all muslims, taking pre-emptive action across the borders, doing anything to spread the dharma, etc etc) has NOT been followed by the hindu society and almost ALL hindu sages/learned men of the past - Vivekananda, Ramkrishna, Chaitanya, baba Loknath, Shankaracharya, etc etc. preached stuff that is DIRECTLY OPPOSITE of what you preach/believe in. Most of these folks were born DURING or AFTER islamic invasion of India, so the line of thought 'they didnt know this modern evil' is irrelevant. And when your viewpoint is in opposition to almost all the well learned and highly respected hindu scholars of recent and long ago past, it should give you cause to question your viewpoints. Krishna's army was not dutybound to fight for the Kauravas. Yes they were. Krishna's army was dutybound to follow Krishna's commands, since he is the CCO. Krishna decieded that one side gets him, the other gets his army. Therefore, his army is dutybound to fight for the side they end up on. And I have given you examples (in past discussions) on how well those pacifist theories went ... unless ofcoiurse you see no problem in destruction of our way of life in the course of implementation of such "pacifist" theories propounded by our own morons who do more damage to us than the actual jihadis. First, you are not a hindu and you know NOTHING about hinduism if you dare call Vivekananda and Chaitanya 'morons'. This is not only disrespectful but highly ignorant about what hinduism is. Infact, morons are the ones you are listening to. The point you miss is that our way of life has NOT been destroyed because it CANNOT be destroyed. The contributions of Vivekananda, Chaitanya, etc. were far more significant than your's or mine. I just gave you a direct reference from nothing less than the Gita itself which suits most correctly to our current situation You are referencing the gita. However, i dont think you are understanding the gita or the books that govern the gita to understand the context of the gita itself. This is what comes from not having a thorough grounding on our philosophy and way of life. Iam yet to see any sort of corroborated evidence(other than your opinion) from you on how the interpretation of those verses is not applicable to our current situation. That is because you do not understand hinduism. You do not understand that regardless of what it says in the gita, the gita is NEVER meant to be taken literally or on its own,since the highest books in hindu faith are the Vedas ( even IN the gita it mentions so!) and therefore, any action taken should be first and foremost justified by the vedas. Whats more, people don't realize that in the Gita, Krishna is often talking in an extremely case-specific way (which is evident if you READ the damn book and reference it with Vishnu Puraan !) and not always in a generalized manner. SOme of the things you've quoted in the past are generalized when it was actually meant in an extremely case-specific way applicable to the (then) current situation. The vedas quite categorically reject the ideas you are proposing. You may consider this as 'my opinion' but this is what hinduism actually is. Gator : I am of a different philosophy than hinduism but i am originally a hindu. I don't see why i cannot comment on my former religion. Obviously i don't think it works well, which is why i left it, but what bearing does it have on me debating what is/isnt true from a hindu perspective ?!? Simply being a hindu or not being one doesnt change the heirarchy of literary texts in hinduism and you'd think that a former brahmin would know atleast a little about this topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. Oye I just showed you what the Gita says What you did is quote it out of context without understanding much of it. If so feel free to explain how exactly you take those verses in any other form than what i did . Simple : The rule of governance specifies which/what book overrides one or the other. The vedas overrides the gita - not just in principle but this fact is confirmed in the Gita itself. If you'd actually read the gita, you'd be aware of this point and not claim 'its the final version, the last edition of God's words' etc etc nonsense you hear from these 'i am a hindu on paper but i dont read much hindu philosophy/holy texts' kinds. The vedas don't support your acts, thereby demonstrating that certain acts you are drawing conclusions from the Gita in a generic fashion were meant to be taken in a case-specific scenario. The Vishnu Puraan categorically mentions that the path to the lord is through renounciation and total beleif. So you see, you are not qualified to judge what is/what isn't advocated by hinduism simply by quoting a few lines from the gita. This is also the reason why what you are advocating is categorically against and directly opposite to what was advocated by SCHOLARS of hinduism and great sages like Ramkrishna, Chaitanya, Vivekananda,Shankaracharya etc et. Any book can support any position if you resort to selective quoting out of context and don't realize that there are SEVERAL BOOKS that interact with each other and determine the heirarchy. The only reason the Gita has gained so much prominence is because it has a lot of standardized hymns to Brahma and Vishnu, thereby making it easy for the brahmins to conduct most vishnu-related prayers from one book. But on the ladder of hindu philosophical heirarchy, it is NOT anywhere CLOSE to the level of the Vedas OR the Upanishads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. So explain how Bheeshm and Dron are not worthy of being innocent by those standards ? Again a gentle reminder to be short and specific. They WERE innocent in their karma who conciously and willfully got involved, thereby making them a part of the process rather than someone innocent who's done nothing wrong and wants no part of the mess. It is fine for an innocent person to willfully make a choice that puts them in jeopardy. Drona and Bheeshma made that choice themselves. They were not innocent parties living their lives in happiness when someone came outta nowhere and nuked them because they are all 'kshatriyas' or 'kuru' And you cannot make the choice for the innocents either. so once again kindly explain why they should suffer out of a situation they had no control or choice.? Because they are duty-bound to follow the order of their commanding officer (Krishna) !!! If the commanding officer says ' mate you are fighting for the other side and we'r gonna fire at you', you are dutybound to follow that order. From Arjuna's perspective, its fine to shoot Krishna's men because they are on the other side and they are there because they are dutybound to follow Krishna's directive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. What you did is quote it out of context without understanding much of it Feel free to quote it "In Context" with a explanation ... Too cumbersome and time consuming. It'd be far better if you actually READ the gita along with a few other books that are far more important than the Gita to a hindu. I keep elaborating on a very simple point : Take the brightest and the most prominent hindu scholars/sages of the past 1000+ years : Shakaracharya, Chaitanya, Ramkrishna, Vivekananda, etc. and you will find that their position is categorically OPPOSITE to your's. Your position (the maniac hindu, as i call it) is a current phenomenon- all this hinduvta nonsense didnt spring up till the last 100 years - a period, 'coincidentally' that has ZERO hindu scholars who can match the benchmark standard set by Shakaracharya and subsequently attained by Chaitanya, Ramkrishna and Vivekananda. These two facts alone should give you cause to pause and re-evaluate your position when it flies in the face of everything hinduism has stood for for thousands of years ! And you further expose your un-hindu principle by calling the likes of Ramkrishna, Vivekananda, etc etc. as morons. Furthermore, i don't have a problem with you for holding your viewpoints. That is your right and even though i think your viewpoints are crazy, i've seen crazier. What i do have a problem with (and which is why i got involved with you long ago in the first place) is masquerading your opinion as that of an 'upright hindu who follows hinduism'. For your opinion is completely DIVORCED from hinduism- as evidenced by the marked difference between what you and your ilk propose versus what actual bona fide hindu experts of great repute : Vivekananda, Ramkrishna, Chaitanya, Shakaracharya, etc etc. And you CANNOT call Shakaracharya a moron or Vivekananda a 'moron - look what that moron's viewpoints have gotten us into' and still call yourself a hindu. Its just that simple. And this is why i have a fundamental problem with hinduism : the vivekananda types are are on decline and the 'hinduvta idiot who's only partially read the gita and managed to completely screw up the interpretations' like the RSS, Shiv Sena, etc. are on the rise. This i believe is the reason why a few other posters and myself have spoken out against Hinduism's future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. Because they are duty-bound to follow the order of their commanding officer (Krishna) !!! second notice.... please warn this user not to insult hindu Gods like this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. Although you are now contradicting yourself ... from your original stance of "that no innocents can be harmed" by bringing in exceptions *I* am not bringing in the exception. HInduism itself is bringing in the exception !!! It mentions IN THE GITA ITSELF that you cannot remain innocent if you wilfully get involved. An innocent who wants no part of the mess cannot be victimised. Period. That is flatly said in the Vishnu Puraan. havent they willfully made their choice of supporting a ideology that prescribes destruction to others. ? Why shouldnt they be dealth with just the same ? No, they will not be dealt with just the same. Since you are so big (apparently!) on the gita, let me bring to your attention the Gita itself - the fifth parva talking about Karma Yog. If you read that, you'd realize that action can only be taken against or met by action. Not action vs ideology on its own. I can believe whatever i want- whether Hindus deserve to die or Chritstians deserve to be made slaves,Muslims should be castrated, about your wife, about my mom, etc etc - however, if i DONT TAKE any action on my beliefs, you CANNOT take any action against me. A muslim who believes in his faith but HIMSELF or HERSELF doesn't take any action that harms others are innocent by the definition of innocence and karma in hinduism !!!!!! EVIDENCE PLEASE The very fact that you want 'evidence' that Vivekananda subscribed to ahimsa speaks volumes about your lack of knowledge regarding vivekananda's works. I can say flatly that your position is completely unsupported by vivekananda , chaitanya, etc. who's works DO NOT advocate taking up arms and going invading other nations or genociding an entire group for the bad apples they have, etc etc. To give evidence for this would be to list all the works of vivekananda and chaitanya. There are 9 volumes of letters personally written by vivekananda on various topics. Just where do i begin ? here(CLICK ME) is a good place for you and D_R to educate youself on what really is hinduism. I will make you a counter-proposal : Since you are so big on the violent hindu routine, find me a piece of vivekananda or chaitanya's works that advocates violence against a community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. Because they are duty-bound to follow the order of their commanding officer (Krishna) !!! second notice.... please warn this user not to insult hindu Gods like this.... And a notice to you too : i am not insulting any Hindu God. Just where in that line of mine did you find anything offensive is beyond me - i am just noting the FACT that Krishna ordered his army to fight for the Kauravas (fact according to the mahabharata) and that he was their commanding officer (it was HIS army ffs!!!) I even put Krishna in capital K... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. you going around in circles in light of direct evidence and confirmation from many saints and acts that one cannot stand by watching Adharma Incorrect. As i said, you are drawing the wrong conclusions because you have not read it well enough. I've given you a site that has ALL of Vivekananda's PERSONAL works. Read through it and find me ONE place where he advocates violence against a community to fight adharma. If you want me to bring up an article of vivekananda that DIRECTLY contradicts you, gimme some time- i'd have to read skim read the articles again since i read them a long time ago (10 years almost) and i forget what each article talks about. Personally, i am not sure if its worth my effort to categorically prove that your view and vivekananda's are in polar opposites and i think if you really wanted to learn about Hinduism then you'd get the same conclusion from reading vivekananda's works, as it is so CRYSTAL CLEAR that the dude was not a hindu-taleban ! If you just want to be intractable and stubborn, you'd find your pathetic views superior to that of Vivekananda's as well. But, i might chance upon one particular vivekananda article i have in mind (pity i dont remember the header) and post it here sometime. who is bigger and more holier the Krishna Avatar , Gita or Vivekananda ? Faulty comparison. Vivekananda is not competing with krishna or Gita. He is a follower of Krishna and Gita. He held them both in very high esteem. It is not a contradiction between what the Gita says and what Vivekananda says - it is YOUR interpretation of the Gita and what can/cannot be done in Hinduism is what's for debate. I didnt say 'pick between Vivekananda and Krishna', i said ' when YOUR viewpoints are different from Vivekananda's it should give you cause for a pause. As i said,i take exception to you not because of the views you hold but because you associate your views with hinduism. I may be a buddhist but my family are hindus- and incidentally, i have great respect for real hinduism, which is what Vivekananda's hinduism is. Not your's. The comparison is between *YOU* and Vivekananda. Ie, who understood Krishna, Gita and Hinduism better - you or Vivekananda ? And what "part" did Bheeshm or Dron want in the "mess" that they got involved with .. Ditto with Krishna's army. They may have disliked their choices or wished they had a better choice, but ultimately, they were present in the battlefield out of their free will. They willfully got involved. They wern't forced at gunpoint to do what they did. Thats quite different from the scenario of an average dood who sits at his paanshop, goes home to his wife and kids, doesnt get involved in anything fishy(i do not believe that each and every muslim out of 150 million muslims in India are into something fishy) and the next day gets slaughtered by you because he is a muslim. One has to be wilfully involved or at fault to be taken action against.If i believe you should die but i do nothing to make that happen,you cannot take any action against me. Anyways, i am off for the weekend. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. No the issue is whos work/preachings are more relevant to current scenario . NO ! As i said, Vivekananda's works are NOT in competition with Krishna or the Gita. He was a vedic scholar of immense repute. The Gita/Krishna etc. are the subject. Vivekananda, you, me,Golwalkar, etc. are the PEOPLE who study the subject and give us their interpretations of it. So if there is a difference between what YOU think hinduism says and what Vivekananda thinks hinduism says, then the comparison is between YOU and Vivekananda ! You are thinking that it is a comparison between Krishna's talk and Vivekananda (because i said they differ) since you are ASSUMING that your understanding of the Gita is fine. I am saying, because your understanding of the Gita and Hinduism is categorically in opposition to Vivekananda's, Chaitanya's, Shakaracharya's etc. understanding of the Gita and Hinduism, YOUR position is wrong. Ie, in simple words, i am saying ' you are wrong because the greatest teachers of hinduism, who understood and knew hinduism far better than you, disagree with your position'. And you are saying Mushy's soldiers or the Jihadi working on behalf of mullas dont fight on their own free will ? ........ No. I am saying that you CANNOT take actions against a whole community as you've advocated in the past ( Kick ALL muslims out of India) since there are innocents among them. What about your "theories" that guarantee a Genocide (and there is past Trend to back me up) of 800 millions ... Very "Dharmic" I suppose ? Lets analyze this for a minute. These 'past trends' were around since the last 1000 years atleast. Chaitanya, Vivekananda, Shankaracharya, Ramkrishna, etc. all lived in the last 1000 years and are considered, universally i might add, as the ultimate authorities in Hinduism in that period. Their viewpoints and methods differ very much from your's. So either you are wrong on what is/isnt Dharmic or Vivekananda was wrong in what is/isn't dharmic, since you two differ. If you wish to thikn that Vivekananda's/Chaitanya's "theories" garantee a genocide, then that's your perogative. But personally, i dont think its an even contest between you/your guru(whomever he/she is) and Vivekananda. Anyways, cya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. now when it's convenient he is presenting buddha sas incarnation of vishnu Eh ? Its not a question of what i believe. I dont consider Buddha to be a Vishnu reincarnation. However, in hinduism, Buddha is officially recognized as a reincarnation of Vishnu. I am playing by the rules set up by the hindu scriptures for this debate. As per your article, sorry, too long to read. Do u read what u write for logical consistency :lmao: Do u ? go ahead point one logical inconsistency if u can. :wtg: yes u are yet to respond on how buddha was wrong please do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. Yes so bottomline why can't u preach hinduism in USA in whatever way you understand..Mind you they are not forcing anyone with sword they are not tricking anyone by monetary promises.. So where is the problem Which VEDA GEETA RAMAYAN PURAAN UPNISHADA forbids that let us know.. bahut ho gaya lamba chaura endles discussion.. If u can't produce the same then should it be construed u are just worried about spread of hinduism and rest is all rhetoric. I told you meandering debate has room for passing of opinion as act andit goes on and on so every once in a while u got to break this circle and check back what was the subject of discussion in first place.. SO KR CC anyone else don;t evade this so let everyone know which part of the scrpitures forbids what ISCKOn are doing.. i would love to know.. Spare this Geeta pravachan I too read it eeveryday and I am sur eu won;t bring anythign new on the table from that book. So although fasicnating discussion that is but it certainly is meaningless apropos the subject of debate we started with. So I hope no more evasion of main topic continues with lengthy treatise on peripherals.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. I have read those and even conversed with Shourie on email. HE is gem of a guy the first guy who returned my mail very next day and he used to Cabinet minsiter during that period. :wtg: :wtg: As per him actually he has nothing to do with that site some concerned fellow has established that one. Good work people might benefit from reading those articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. CC ... heres what your beloved Monk has to say about Islam ... Enjoy the Read ... :wtg: http://arunshourie.voiceofdharma.com/articles/19930131.htm http://arunshourie.voiceofdharma.com/articles/19930213.htm Don't embarass him further :lmao: He never claimed he will be consistent from one thread to another. :lmao: This is vivekanad form the article posted by BB. I am sue when the greta amn was alive he too must not have gotten any good press. When someoen dies then the value virtue yada yad gets emphasized. Of course, he said, Hindus who became Muslims must be taken back into the Hindu fold. Otherwise our numbers will keep dwindling -- we used to be around 600 million by the reckoning of Ferishta, the oldest Muslim historian, now we are just 200 million. "And then", he continued, "every man going out of the Hindu pale is not only a man less, but an enemy the more." "Again," says Swami Vivekananda continuing his reasons for accepting them back as Hindus, "the vast majority of Hindu perverts to Islam and Christianity are perverts by the sword, or the descendants of these. It would be obviously unfair to subject these to disabilities of any kind. As to the case of born aliens, did you say? Why, born aliens have been converted in the past by crowds, and the process is still going on..." (The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda, Volume V, pages 233-4. In all subsequent references to these books, the number of the volume is given first followed by the page number.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. hmmmm that does sound like the rants of a brainwashed Hindutva jihadis like us ehhh Dada ... :flux: U are better I am the only jihadi here and dare I say proud one too. :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. CC ... heres what your beloved Monk has to say about Islam ... Enjoy the Read ... :wtg: http://arunshourie.voiceofdharma.com/articles/19930131.htm http://arunshourie.voiceofdharma.com/articles/19930213.htm Err, did you bother reading the articles you posted ? For i've read them in the past and i tend to agree mostly with what Vivekananda thinks about Islam. However, nowhere does he advocate or support preemptive violence to and ethnic cleansing of the muslims out of India like you do. I think that is the issue i am trying to debate here. Nobody said that Vivekananda was all roley poley with the muslims. However, he didnt advocate such drastic actions as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Re: Saudi Fatwa: Shiites are Infidels and Worse Than Jews, etc.. o let everyone know which part of the scrpitures forbids what ISCKOn are doing. It is against the ethics of hinduism ( the bhagwat purana itself says to respect other's religions) when ISKON spreads its faith by dissing other religions and their Gods. Besides, do you need a book to spell everything out for you or can't you understand the tone set by hinduism ?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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