Predator_05 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry What do u mean by Jihadi Hindus? Right wingers, fans of Modi, Thackeray, Bajrang Dals etc etc. hmmm, right wingers = Jihadis ?!?!? LMFAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry Lurker dude is quite funny, keep up the good work, we need laughs sometimes :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry apparantly us Hindus were good for nothing and Aurangzeb was the real Father of the Nation and Ummah invented Building architecture Please ! Keep that nonsense to yourself. Never have i said that hindus never did anything or built anything. Infact, i've commented many a times about great hindu architectural achievements. I just don't feel the need to see Indian history in terms of religion - I don't care who built the taj- its not important. We know it was built by Indians. That is far more important and thats where the story should stop! I don't feel the need to usurp the few good accomplishments of muslims in India just because it suits the agenda. The taj was a muslim work of art,so was Red fort, Fatehpur Sikri (well, technically not i guess), Hyderabad, Bidar, Berar, etc. I am happy enough with magnificient non-muslim constructions all over India - like Bhilwara, Ajanta, Ellora, Konarak, Tirumala, Madurai, Khajuraho, etc. Insecure hindus who try to claim credit for muslim works in India are every bit as annoying as insecure muslims who deny the accomplishment of pre-islamic world. Both two peas of the same pod. I guess thats what happens when you believe nutters like Aurangzeb upuntill Arundhati Roy Not that i am a huge fan of Arundhati but give me a 'nutter' like Ms Roy any day of the week over the fundie nutters like Golwalkar or Savarkar who pretend to know what they are talking about but don't know ABCD about hinduism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry Right After you What ?!? I never said the comments you attributed to me, nor implied it,hence it is nonsense. Insecure Leftist jihadis who try to claim everything since sliced bread as belonging to accomplishements from their neck of the woods is what I have problem with ... I understand your stance ... no real surprises ... This has nothing to do with leftist movements. The fact is, hinduvta organizations in India are NOT happy with the idea that muslims too were capable of scaling the pinnacles of architectural and artistic glory as they did with the Taj and various other muslim works across the world. Oh and you will find that Leftist jihadists ( ie, in India, that'd be maoists/naxalites) have nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion - leftist jihadists don't care one iota about hindu-muslim-previous cultural accomplishments etc etc. And if you are going to accuse me of being a naxalite or maoist, i'd like some reasoning backed up my demonstrating how what i say is in congruence with most of maoist/naxalite philosophy. And I dont feel the need to tell lies ... Sure you do - just as long as it shows hindus in a glorious picture, you would be willing to believe even the pyramids were built by hindus. First the taj, now the red fort, tomorrow it will be gol gumbaz, day after tomorrow it will be charminar and in a few years, even the coloseum and pyramids would be 'built by good nice hindus but got stolen and history got re-written to shaft the hindus so that Romans, Egyptians,Muslims, etc. could all claim the glorious accomplishments of hindus'. I see where this is going. but give me a Sawarkar instead of those two dead beat knuckle heads Dunno much about Thapar but i've met Ms Roy personally - she is, from what i gather, far far more informed and intelligent than you are. She has some serious socialist leanings but it tends to be far more than economics which made me uncomfortable. But anything over religious superiorist movements - be it golwalkar or savarkar or some fundie islamic stuff. Different means but they are all the same peas in the pod in terms of their end goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry I just don't feel the need to see Indian history in terms of religion - I don't care who built the taj- its not important. We know it was built by Indians. That is far more important and thats where the story should stop! I don't feel the need to usurp the few good accomplishments of muslims in India just because it suits the agenda. The taj was a muslim work of art,so was Red fort, Fatehpur Sikri (well, technically not i guess), Hyderabad, Bidar, Berar, etc. Why does the architect get all the credit and workers none. If you have one architect and 20,000 workers for a task, how much credit that one architect get for completing the task ? can you please enlighten me. Not that i am a huge fan of Arundhati but give me a 'nutter' like Ms Roy any day of the week over the fundie nutters like Golwalkar or Savarkar who pretend to know what they are talking about but don't know ABCD about hinduism. How do you know that Savarkar didn't know ABCD about Hindusim. He may be a bigot , but with knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry Why does the architect get all the credit and workers none. If you have one architect and 20,000 workers for a task, how much credit that one architect get for completing the task ? can you please enlighten me. ????? When did i say architect gets ALL the credit ? No doubt the chief architects deserve the lion's share of the credit because they are the ones who are macro-managing the whole thing and it is very much similar to the job of a research head for a company. But not all the credit. How do you know that Savarkar didn't know ABCD about Hindusim. He may be a bigot , but with knowledge. If he did know an iota about hinduism and understood an iota of it, he'd be closer to Vivekananda in his mentality than Qutb or an average spokesperson for SIMI. My benchmark for a modern hindu is Vivekananda. Savarkar is as opposite of vivekananda as it gets inside of hinduism. So savarkar = moron in my books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry If he did know an iota about hinduism and understood an iota of it, he'd be closer to Vivekananda in his mentality than Qutb or an average spokesperson for SIMI. My benchmark for a modern hindu is Vivekananda. Savarkar is as opposite of vivekananda as it gets inside of hinduism. So savarkar = moron in my books. Again , just because you don't agree with Savarkar doesn't make him ignorant about Hinduism. He may be ignorant about pacifist ideas, but Hinduism according to him is not pacifist. Bad idea to be so condescending about other's knowlege. You may accuse him of bigotry ,but not lack of knowledge. You have no idea how much he knows or not knows. For all you know, he may know more about Hinduism then what you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry ust as you summararily branded whatever I said as nonsense ... I did the same This is why you should learn English properly. I branded what you said to be nonsense is because you were categorically attributing comments to me that i never made or even implied. I didn't make one comment about Aurangzeb being great or anything but yet, my challenge of your ideas were met with 'oh sure, you think Aurangzeb is great' kinda nonsense. hence, i called it nonsense. So before you try to counter to a comment, perhaps you should try to understand the language a bit better and figure out why someone said 'nonsense' to a particular comment you made. remind me again where did say that .... ???? Again - please improve thy English ! dont think you ever gave any reasoning (never mind backing up ) to any bakwas from ohh lets see "I dont have problems with Sharia" to "911 was a conspiracy" to "Israel Should be wiped" to "Maority Kashmiris are innocent untill every single one of them is proven guilty in a court of law" etc etc etc ... So dont expect one ... Again what goes around and all that ... I've given ample reasons and they are on record here and elsewhere. You can say you disagree with my reasoning or think its nonsense but to say i've never given any reasoning for those ideas of mine are categoric lies. But then again, i don't expect better reasoning from people who fail to master the basics of a language they use daily. No I dont. But you want to paint the Muslims in a Glorious pic .. complete with a Ivory tower and all that .... Nope- as i said, i am happy with affording the respect it deserves in stuff it did well. I am not going around claiming muslim works as Buddhist or hindu or jain or whatever. Niether am i going around claiming buddhist, hindu,jain,christian, etc. works as muslim. But you are going around trying to claim muslim works as hindu - first it was the taj.Now you've snuck in Red fort too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry but Hinduism according to him is not pacifist. And hinduism according to Vivekananda was pacifistic. In my view, Vivekananda's knowledge and understanding on hinduism >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Savarkar. Since Savarkar's ideas != Vivekanandas and infact, in direct conflict, Savarkar = moron in my books. I just dont know how i can spell it out any simpler. You have no idea how much he knows or not knows. Sure i do. As i said - i have a reference point : Vivekananda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry And hinduism according to Vivekananda was pacifistic. In my view, Vivekananda's knowledge and understanding on hinduism >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Savarkar. Since Savarkar's ideas != Vivekanandas and infact, in direct conflict, Savarkar = moron in my books. I just dont know how i can spell it out any simpler. Since when did Vivekananda became the only reference ? You are talking like a Mullah now. Again , you know nothing about whether he knows or not. So stop suggesting that he knows nothing when he may know everything . Also, suggesting Pacifism as main core of Hinduism is like suggesting absolutism . So if a person does not believe that it is Pacifistic , so according to you then , he/she doesn't know Hinduism ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry Again you seem to be in more need of English lessons .... remeber the "Many decades Saga" Which, was a veracious account grammatically. Oh dear, did i send you scurrying for the dictionary again ? Eep! Sorry if it prickles your ego but you do need better comprehension of English. Such as Arts, architecture, etc etc. Feel free to dispute it based on facts presented in that Thread on Taj ... Iam aware that you have a allergy for facts getting in your way so I am not going to bother ... I find it laughable what you afford the title 'fact' and what isn't. There is voluminous record of active construction, planning and design of the Taj under Shah Jehan not only in India but in far-flung places like Turkey, Morocco and Malta - experts from there too came to contribute. As far as i am concerned, there is simply no way of telling if the Taj is a completely new construction blending indic motif in its construction ( not an unheard-of practice amongst muslim constructions - several Turkish constructions incorporated greek motifs in the Ottoman period) or if it was a 'remake' of an original non-muslim building. Whether it was 'modified' or built from scratch by muslims, the fact is the taj is the taj because of the muslims. I am not inclined to see the other side because it has far less material evidence and the credibility of the other side (ie,VHP/RSS/ShivSena/hinduvta etc) is very much in question in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry the entire forum agreed CC was wrong but to this day he claims they are all wrong Yes. Wren & martin book of grammar >>> 'entire forum' of desi speakers, many of whom have less than impeccable grasp of the English language - such as yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry Since when did Vivekananda became the only reference ? Never said he is the only reference. But Vivekananda is *the* reference point for a modern hindu. That cannot be disputed and if so, i'd like you to present one hindu in the modern times that had a better grasp on hinduism than Vivekananda. So stop suggesting that he knows nothing when he may know everything . He cannot know/understand even half of hinduism if his viewpoints are in conflict with the greatest hindu thinker of modern time - one who is commonly acknowledged as the most enlightened hindu of repute in modern times. This doesn't mean Vivekananda is infallible but it sure means that if someone claims to be a hindu but speaks in opposite to vivekananda's message, he/she'd have to do something extraordinary to convince me that he/she is not in error. So if a person does not believe that it is Pacifistic , so according to you then , he/she doesn't know Hinduism ? Most certainly so. Even my limited study of hindu philosophy as a brahmin made that abundantly clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry the entire forum agreed CC was wrong but to this day he claims they are all wrong Yes. Wren & martin book of grammar >>> 'entire forum' of desi speakers, many of whom have less than impeccable grasp of the English language - such as yourself. By Gosh ! Show some Humility, mate. Doesn't seem to be your strong point. Remember confucius saying - he who knows talks not , he who talks knows not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry Since when did Vivekananda became the only reference ? Ever since CC proclaimed to that effect ... every body else is a Nutter which includes likes of Lord Parashuram, Sri Krishna ,Shivaji etc etc .... As I said ..been there asked that ...no point ... :eew: Cheers KR ... enjoy madi ... nanu manchakke hogtini ... :hmph: Cheers Bheem . Have a nice one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry By Gosh ! Show some Humility, mate. Indeed. I humbly bow down to the authority of Wren & Martin book of grammar and pardon me for choosing that over a bunch of desis who are not serious students of English and neither do they speak it as a first language. Pardon me for not believing that 'majority opinion = right opinion' even when it has to do with English grammar where the majority do not even speak English as a first language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry When refering to 2 Decades of timeline ONE CANNOT USE "The two communites lived peacfully for decades" Do you want to bet money on this ? How much will you bet ? I can easily prove you wrong - all i gotto do is go to university,find my English professor buddy and get him to check the above statement, say ' sorry Bheembhai, you need to improve your English' and get it signed by him. If you are too haughty to realize that you are in error ( ie, i can most definitely use the term 'decades' so long as i am talking about more than ONE SINGLE DECADE), i can easily prove you wrong. And no, this is not open to public vote or opinions. Doesn't matter if you get 1 million people to agree with you - if it is wrong according to the grammar book, it is wrong.Period. Grammatical correctness is not subject to a democratic vote! do you think the guy who spent years researching this subject was stupid to not have come across any of that "voluminous" record . No, i think the guys who spent years researching this trying to prove the Taj is hindu are all almost exclusively hailing from Hinduvta fundamentalist parties with an axe to grind. And they are no different from MMA types in Pakistan who go around trying to downplay the 'pre-islamic' achievement of Indus Valley Civilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry That cannot be disputed and if so, i'd like you to present one hindu in the modern times that had a better grasp on hinduism than Vivekananda. . I doon't know and neither do you. Could be Savarkar , could be hegdewar , could be anybody . He cannot know/understand even half of hinduism if his viewpoints are in conflict with the greatest hindu thinker of modern time - one who is commonly acknowledged as the most enlightened hindu of repute in modern times. This doesn't mean Vivekananda is infallible but it sure means that if someone claims to be a hindu but speaks in opposite to vivekananda's message, he/she'd have to do something extraordinary to convince me that he/she is not in error. So , just accuse him of not following Vivekanada then. Why accuse him of lack of knowlege when he could very well have more knowledge than both of us combined. Again you are speaking like a Mullah and advocating absolutism. Since when did Hindu has to follow only Vivekananda and his pacifism to be called a Hindu. Most certainly so. Even my limited study of hindu philosophy as a brahmin made that abundantly clear. Has a thought occured to you that you could be wrong and rest could be right. Remember Krishna's discourse to Arjuna about the war. Hardly pacifistic ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry I doon't know and neither do you. Could be Savarkar , could be hegdewar , could be anybody . ???????? Again you are speaking like a Mullah and advocating absolutism. What ? Absolutism is not about having reference point -without which there is simply no basis of comparison. If you claim to be thinking similar to enlightenment era thinkers but your viewpoints are in direct conflict with *the* biggest proponents of enlightenment philosophy - such as Voltaire or JJ Rosseau, then you are not an enlightenment thinker ! Similarly, if you claim to know and more importantly, understand hinduism but your viewpoints are in direct error to *the* hindu scholar of modern times - Vivekananda, you are in error. Ie, in short, since Vivekananda is commonly held as *the* hindu scholar of the last 500 years, you first gotto prove Vivekananda was in error before any contradiction of his philosophy from your part is given merit. That is standard process of critical thinking, defined very well by Descartes. Has a thought occured to you that you could be wrong and rest could be right. Yes. All the time. But its just a thought, not a conviction. Remember Krishna's discourse to Arjuna about the war. Hardly pacifistic ! Irrelevant. What applies to Arjuna is different from what applies to COMMON MORTAL HUMANS ! Arjuna was a half-God-avatar. Different playing field, different rules - and it is said so in hinduism too. Which is why all hindu scholars before the new-age ignorant hinduvta movement began, emphasized on not blind-copying or blind-application of legendary examples involving supernatural beings. Since when did Hindu has to follow only Vivekananda and his pacifism to be called a Hindu. By that logic, its like saying 'since when does a christian have to follow the apostles to be considered a christian'. Religion is refenced by its proponents and the scholars in those religions. If you dont want to follow Vivekananda but still consider yourself a perfect hindu, you'd have to prove Vivekananda wrong first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: The chip of ignorance that Hindus carry BB you have way too much patience, it's impossible to argue with this guy who thinks everything he says/thinks/imagines is fact. Either on this forum or at the old one he or shwetabh failed to get any muslim posters (i'm sure all are highly educated) to admit there is even a remote possibility that islam is not the perfect or best religion, but he'll always proclaim most muslims are very liberal about their religion like most hindus without any doubt in his mind. What do you expect to achieve arguing with someone with that kind of thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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