Murthy apologises for anthem remark

[vroomfondel]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark k_r, did you fall over when the irony of the phrase "typical regional-minded bong" hit you in the face?

[CC1981]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

He could have used "Uthara" to describe entire North India just like "Dravida" for south india.

Umm Dravida is only 4 states. Utthara would be zillions of more states. Plus there would be no flow to the poem and more over, Utthara is generalized- it has never been used to refer to any particular region of India historically and thus open to interpretation. Dravida is fairly categoric towards which region it is. Dravida as a reference to the south has been used throughout ancient literature - both from the north and from the south. Uttara can be anything - from Uttara-marg which is the Gangotri-Jamnotri region, UttaraPath - the ancient silk route all the way to Samarkand, etc etc. If you actually look at the way Tagore describes the subcontinent, he has not left ANYBODY out - everyone is mentioned in one form or another. Punjab, Sindh,Gujrat,Maratha, Utkaka - self explanatory Dravida - Southern four states Banga - WB, Bihar, Bangladesh, Assam,Tripura, Meghalaya Vindhaya - central India/Madhya Pradesh/Chattisgarh/Mewar/Marwar region Himachal - Traditionally, 'himalaya' is all the northern mountain mass- from Kashmir all the way to the the hills around Burmese borders (ie, rest of the seven sisters plus all the mountain states of north included) Yamuna-Ganga : The ganga-jamina basin that is Haryana,UP, Bihar, etc Jaladhi - all the islands (lakhhadweep and andaman/nicobar) in the indian ses. So you see, ALL regions of the subcontinent are mentioned. Now i'd like to see *YOU* do a better job of naming all the regions either linguistically or geographically and keep the flow, rythm and everything else to your poem.

Only a linguistic clanish bengali like you will see nothing wrong in south indians being ignored like this.

It is not ignored- it is mentioned by Dravida.

If the author had any knowledge about south india , he could have used words like Krishna instead of Yamuna river and it would have rhymed perfectly.

You'd be surprised at how much knowledge Rabindranath Tagore had. He was one of the most well travelled man on the planet for his time. And as i said to anyone out here - you think he could've easily used words like Krishna or Cauvery to rhyme perfectly ? Well be my guest and try it!

Again , a clanish , regional minded linguistic bong will obviously like the anthem written by a fellow bengali.

LOL..oh the irony. Oh and another thing - when Tagore mentions Bengal, its not just bengali people - Bengal in Tagore's time was what is today West Bengal, parts of Bihar, Assam,Meghalaya, Tripura and Bangladesh. It also happened to be the largest political sub-unit ( ie, sub-unit in a sense as a unit below a nation) in the subcontinent, most populous and most economically developed. Keep that in mind, you sensetive lil southie !

[CC1981]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

Excellent Rhyming Yoda.

Right. Clearly, you know squat about a poem. Triplets of phrases with a random quadruplet line thrown in doesnt throw the poem haywire in your eyes. Geez why am i not surprised. Tagore didnt just pen the words randomly in a few minutes flat as you seem to think- each word was carefully picked for its flow, its rhyme, its context, etc etc. If you actually had any idea, you would then know why Sindh follows punjab and its not Gujrat after Punjab ( 'bah' sound to 'sah' sound is a rythmically consistent transition - consonent to vowel; 'bah' sound to 'gah' sound of gujrat would require a break in breath and disrupt flow).

That's why , in my opinion this national anthem should be scrapped.

I disagree. I rather like our anthem. Its unique in a sense that it is one of the few-if not the only one- that actually DESCRIBES the land it is addressing, instead of just filling in the same monotonous ideological rhetoric that makes one national anthem pretty much the same as another. So he didnt mention the four individual states of the South. Instead he refers to them as Dravida. And i have explained the reasons to you, to which you have no counter. Stop being a touchy southie !!

[yoda]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

Punjab-Tamil-Gujarata-Maratha

Tamil does not rhyme in there. Moreover, the naming is in groups of three - you cannot just 'stick' in another one and expect the poem to keep its form. Tagore is describing entire India as one land by its language or geography. There is nothing for the southies to complain about, really.

Bozo, that line has four. I just replaced Sindhu with Tamil in that one to show that it could have been done if the guy REALLY WANTED to. He chose not to for whatever reason (indifference in my opinion), the least of which is likely to the problem of getting things to rhyme.

[yoda]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

I disagree. I rather like our anthem. Its unique in a sense that it is one of the few-if not the only one- that actually DESCRIBES the land it is addressing, instead of just filling in the same monotonous ideological rhetoric that makes one national anthem pretty much the same as another. So he didnt mention the four individual states of the South. Instead he refers to them as Dravida. And i have explained the reasons to you, to which you have no counter. Stop being a touchy southie !!

Being touchie is better than being a moron who thinks nuking your own country by your enemy is justified and being a bong is more important than being an Indian.

[yoda]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

Excellent Rhyming Yoda. This CC is Typical Bong who knows jack sh$it about South India. This regional minded Bong accuses me of being touchy southie time and again and routinely takes cheap shots at South Indians. I know for a fact that even you feel the same way. Who the heck he thinks he has to speak on behalf of south indians . I for one am more interested in the opinion of South Indians and fair minded North Indians than a misguided Buddhist Bong about the fact that south india is adequately represented in the National anthem by this bengali Tagore or not.

KR, he has wide ranging hatred. The guy loves PoK and thinks it is better run than our side of Kashmir (he basically doesn't care that terrorists are being groomed in PoK just with the intention of destroying India), doesn't mind India being nuked by Pak (only if we cut-off water supply to them, mind you), biyatches about Hinduism (his former religion) and thinks Bongs are glad that India lost to Bangladesh (ok, I exaggerated on this one, but we all know what he meant :hmph: )

[CC1981]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

I just replaced Sindhu with Tamil in that one to show that it could have been done if the guy REALLY WANTED to.

And by doing so, you've completely killed the rhyme of that line ! And not to mention, by replacing Sindhu with tamil, you are ERASING a region of our country from the song simply to promote your little neck of the woods. As i said, Tagore described the ENTIRE akhanda bharatam in his poem. So name all the regions either by geography or language and find room for your beloved southie states. As far as i am concerned, Southie states are covered by Dravida. You can't just take out Sindh and substitute Tamil in its place- then Sindh area goes unrepresented. You take out Dravida with a like-rhymind state 'Kerala' and now you have erased Karnatak and AP from mention completely. As i said before, Tagore used specific linguistic names or historic names for places (like Utkala) which have no easily describable geography. You are simply getting jealous for no reason.

(indifference in my opinion)

Which is incorrect in my opinion.

moron who thinks nuking your own country by your enemy is justified

If your own country does something as heinous as the Nazis, then yes, it should be getting nuked. Deshbhakti ki bhi hadh hoti haye.

being a bong is more important than being an Indian.

I never said that. i said bongs from WB are closer to bongs from Bangladesh than rest of india is with bangladesh.

The guy loves PoK and thinks it is better run than our side of Kashmir

Please tell me where i said its better run than Indian kashmir. Seems like the fundoo brigade specializes in making stuff up and putting it in other people's mouth.

[yoda]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

Quote: The guy loves PoK and thinks it is better run than our side of Kashmir Please tell me where i said its better run than Indian kashmir. Seems like the fundoo brigade specializes in making stuff up and putting it in other people's mouth.

Don't make me pull up your posts man. The market is opening in another 9 minutes and I got work to do. :hmph: I''ll see what I can do when I get to work (in another 3 hours) and I will have some free time. :lmao:

[yoda]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

Quote: being a bong is more important than being an Indian. I never said that. i said bongs from WB are closer to bongs from Bangladesh than rest of india is with bangladesh.

Am I imagining the gator poll. :chin:

[CC1981]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

Don't make me pull up your posts man.

Go ahead. i dare ya to pull up a post where i said 'Pok is better run than Indian Kashmir'. i said Pok has remained stable ever since Pakistan took it over and therefore, should remain part of pakistan.

Am I imagining the gator poll.

You are, as usual, failing to comprehend what i am saying for the past several days. My whole pitch was that bengalis is to bangladesh is a closer relationship than rest of india is to bangladesh. Nowhere does it imply (except for in retarded minds i suppose) that bengalis is to bangladesh is a closer relationship than rest of india is to bengalis (WBs).

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark CC, Your comment has no basis of reasoning on it, and you are the most ill-qualified person to talk about the sentiments of South Indians because you are not one. Again , this is the same logic which who have used to negate majority opinion in Gator's poll about country over religion/culture when you deemed NRI opinion irrelevant . A Bong trying to play judge and jury on the National anthem issue written by a Bong . Give me a break ! :tired: And yes, stop abusing posters and debate the posts , not the posters. You needlessly called me "touchy southie" first when my posts were never directed towards you. That is the reason why I called you "Regional Minded Bong ". And I don't really like trend your path because it leads to more abuse and I would like no part of it. Unlike you , I do not have a history of abusing posters. I try to debate the posts , not the posters !. Now, If you must debate further , tone down.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

Excellent Rhyming Yoda.

Right. Clearly, you know squat about a poem. Triplets of phrases with a random quadruplet line thrown in doesnt throw the poem haywire in your eyes. Geez why am i not surprised. Tagore didnt just pen the words randomly in a few minutes flat as you seem to think- each word was carefully picked for its flow, its rhyme, its context, etc etc.

And you know squat about south indians. If accomplished poet like tagore didn't just pen the words randomly and rightly so , how the heck do you expect novices like me or Yoda to pen down a revised national anthem inclusive of south indian states/geographical terrains in a few minutes ? What a moronic expectation.

Umm Dravida is only 4 states. Utthara would be zillions of more states.

SO ??? . When did the number of states decide how a collective unit should be called. Also, if their is no Dravidian race according to you and DR , then why use the word "Dravida". Don't tell me it represents only the language here.

Punjab, Sindh,Gujrat,Maratha, Utkaka - self explanatory Dravida - Southern four states Banga - WB, Bihar, Bangladesh, Assam,Tripura, Meghalaya Vindhaya - central India/Madhya Pradesh/Chattisgarh/Mewar/Marwar region Himachal - Traditionally, 'himalaya' is all the northern mountain mass- from Kashmir all the way to the the hills around Burmese borders (ie, rest of the seven sisters plus all the mountain states of north included)

All right , Mr Spin doctor , here is the verbatim translation of Anthem in english . Thou art the ruler of the minds of all people, dispenser of India's destiny. Thy name rouses the hearts of Punjab, Sindh, Gujarat, the Maratha country, in the Dravida country, Utkala (Orissa) and Bengal; It echoes in the hills of the Vindhyas and Himalayas, it mingles in the rhapsodies of the pure waters Jamuna and the Ganges. They chant only thy name, they seek only thy blessings, They sing only thy praise. The saving of all people waits in thy hand, thou dispenser of India's destiny. Victory, Victory, Victory, Victory to thee. He specifically uses word "Bengal" to describe his home state. Talk about regionalism . Also, the usage of "Punjab" and "Sind" is ridiculous in my opinion because it could easily be inferred to as Pakistan also. And he talks about geographical terrains here when he describes Vindhyas, Himalyas and Ganga , Jamuna. Don't spin it to include imaginary states just like your other debates . I am not going to buy that sh$t. It's plain and clear from the English translation that entire South India has been brushed off by the poet by usage of one word "Dravida" and he talks only about North India otherwise. In my opinion , this national anthem should be scrapped.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

k_r' date=' did you fall over when the irony of the phrase "typical regional-minded bong" hit you in the face?[/quote'] And did you fall over when CC needlessly used the phrase "Typical touchie Southie" towards me ?

[CC1981]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

Your comment has no basis of reasoning on it

I've given you as much musical and poetic reasoning as necessary. I am sorry if you do not get it but to anyone who even thinks that Punjab-Sindh-Gujrat-Maratha rhyme consistency is replicated by Punjab-Tamil-Gujrat-Maratha, knows diddly squat about music or basic poem composition. And i am not commenting on the sentiments of the south indians - i am commenting on the song itself. Your assesment that the South has been inadequately represented has been proven to be false by the standards of poetry and music. As i explained to you and you refuse to acknowledge - the only reason the states who's names are mentioned are so because it is EASIER to name them than describe them geographically and the only reason why some state names are missing and instead geographical/linguistic terms applied to it is because, again, its EASIER. It is about the form the poem and its flow. You have no idea how much time poet usually spends nitpicking over his poem to make it sound more and more flowing/rhyming and to say that Tagore just half-arsed it because he didnt know anything about the South is a gross mispotrayal of the truth. I think you are being way too touchy about this simply because your individual state didnt get named. The job was to describe the entire India appropriately in a poem. And he did that job brilliantly. If you think your precious little state deserves its individual mention - fine, go ahead but as i said, stop the talk and MAKE your poem - don't cut off areas named to substitute your's in as someone did before. You got no right to do that. So yes- go for it my pal - Mention ALL regions of Akhanda Bharatam and get it to flow like a poem.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

Your comment has no basis of reasoning on it

I've given you as much musical and poetic reasoning as necessary. I am sorry if you do not get it but to anyone who even thinks that Punjab-Sindh-Gujrat-Maratha rhyme consistency is replicated by Punjab-Tamil-Gujrat-Maratha, knows diddly squat about music or basic poem composition. And i am not commenting on the sentiments of the south indians - i am commenting on the song itself. Your assesment that the South has been inadequately represented has been proven to be false by the standards of poetry and music. As i explained to you and you refuse to acknowledge - the only reason the states who's names are mentioned are so because it is EASIER to name them than describe them geographically and the only reason why some state names are missing and instead geographical/linguistic terms applied to it is because, again, its EASIER. It is about the form the poem and its flow. You have no idea how much time poet usually spends nitpicking over his poem to make it sound more and more flowing/rhyming and to say that Tagore just half-arsed it because he didnt know anything about the South is a gross mispotrayal of the truth. I think you are being way too touchy about this simply because your individual state didnt get named. The job was to describe the entire India appropriately in a poem. And he did that job brilliantly. If you think your precious little state deserves its individual mention - fine, go ahead but as i said, stop the talk and MAKE your poem - don't cut off areas named to substitute your's in as someone did before. You got no right to do that. So yes- go for it my pal - Mention ALL regions of Akhanda Bharatam and get it to flow like a poem.

Bull talk re !. I have already debunked your explanations in my earlier posts. Go and read it , I am not going to spoon feed you. And also, my preference is to have a National anthem wherein NO STATES are mentioned just like in USA which by the way , misguided communist lefty like you has already deemed it "Stupidly Ideological". And trust a regional minded Bong like you to praise a poem which uses only one word to describe entire south india. Brilliant , my ar$e ! Please stop embarrassing yourself in every thread. Is the full moon out yet ? :hic:

[CC1981]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

All right , Mr Spin doctor , here is the verbatim translation of Anthem in english .

Umm dude please. STOP. You just cut-pasted from wiki. And no, it is not an accurate translation- a vague one.

He specifically uses word "Bengal" to describe his home state. Talk about regionalism .

As i said- he mentioned bengal because there is NO OTHER EASIER WAY of representing Bengal in a poem.

What a moronic expectation.

If you can't do better or you aint got something better- please don't complain or ask for it to be scrapped. Now THAT is moronic.

Also, if their is no Dravidian race according to you and DR , then why use the word "Dravida". Don't tell me it represents only the language here.

Yes it does. Dravida has been used to describe the language/culture of the southern four states in ancient india - not just by us northies but by your southie ancestors too. It is a LINGUISTIC appeallation !

Also, the usage of "Punjab" and "Sind" is ridiculous in my opinion because it could easily be inferred to as Pakistan also

And that is a ridiculous opinion - punjab and sindh are historically and culturally as much India as anywhere else on this planet - regardless of what transpired only FIFTY years ago. Besides, this poem was penned before the partition and was penned to reflect the complete subcontinent minus afghanistan.

And he talks about geographical terrains here when he describes Vindhyas, Himalyas and Ganga , Jamuna. Don't spin it to include imaginary states just like your other debates .

He is using geographical terrain and linguistic/historic names to COVER all of India. Ganga-Jamuna is in reference not just to the rivers but also the land around it. Vindhayas is not just the mountain ranges - it represents central india.

It's plain and clear from the English translation that entire South India has been brushed off by the poet by usage of one word "Dravida" and he talks only about North India otherwise.

Touchie touchie southie, thou art ! Just admit it - you want your state to be named and thats all there is to it. You arn't satisfied with being referred to as Dravida- which you got to share ith 3 other states - nevermind that 8 states share the 'himachal' and you don't see any of them hollering about it. You refuse to accept the simple fact that there is no other convinient and concise way of representing the south apart from Dravida which is why its used. Same reason why Bengal is called Bengal and not ' the land where ganga-brahmaputra meets' Just analyze the poem ! You claim that he just 'brushed it off' but the FACT is, the words are chosen to best reflect all of india in a short, concise way. And how else are you going to do it ? Instead of Bengal wtf is he gonna say to identify bengal ? land of ganga-brahmaputra and its delta ? Good fucking luck making THAT go into a poem. And instead of Martaha, wtf is he gonna say otherwise ? Malabar coast and north deccan ? What about Punjab ? Land of five rivers ? wait a min- that IS punjab ! What if madhya paradesh wanted to identify apart from the Vindhya ? how the fook do you represent that ? Gwalior-Mewar-Marwar ?!? I am sorry but not only do you not know exactly what the anthem means, you do not even understand its composition. No region has been looked over and every region has been mentioned either geographically, linguistically or by name, where and when suitable. If you don't like it, tough beans, really. Its such a petty little issue to get worked up over and we should just be glad that our national anthem atleast TALKS about our country instead of other national anthems that doesnt even MENTION the country. I mean you can take the American national anthem and get an Aussie to sing it in Australia and it wouldnt even make a difference. But Indian anthem can ONLY be uniquely identified with India. celebrate that, instead of squabbling over it !

[CC1981]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

I have already debunked your explanations in my earlier posts.

You have debunked nothing. You've just denied a lot thats it. When i explained the poem to you, all you said is 'bullshit, hogwash,etc etc' Thats not debunking, mate - that is just putting your fingers in your ears and going nanananana.

[CC1981]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

And also, my preference is to have a National anthem wherein NO STATES are mentioned just like in USA which by the way , misguided communist lefty like you has already deemed it "Stupidly Ideological

Misguided ? Do you even know wtf you are talking about ? I said it is as stupidly ideological is because it is NOT an anthem that is applicable only to America. Here are the lyrics to it : O say, can you see, by the dawn?s early light, What so proudly we hailed at the twilight?s last gleaming, Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight, O?er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming? And the rockets? red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there; O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave O?er the land of the free and the home of the brave? And on and on it goes. All it talks about is some ideological nonsense about fighting for this,that and all that while throwing in the mention of a flag here and there. So tomorrow if Britain adopted the stars-n-stripes as the banner and america got a new flag plus britain adopted this song as nationa anthem, it would FIT perfectly with no fault. But not with our anthem - our anthem is 'india-unique'. No other country can use it or describe their country like our anthem does. THAT is why i said its stupdly ideological and not reflective of the NATION.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

I have already debunked your explanations in my earlier posts.

You have debunked nothing. You've just denied a lot thats it. When i explained the poem to you, all you said is 'bullshit, hogwash,etc etc' Thats not debunking, mate - that is just putting your fingers in your ears and going nanananana.

You are repeating the same thing over and over again . It's like we were in high school and the teachers asks us to write the central idea of this poem and you let your imagination run wild. Sorry Dude, you need help. I don't know whether to indulge further or not. BTW, I am not a Bengali , how the heck am I supposed to get the English translation . Obviously I googled it and pasted the translation . And other south indians like Yoda do see what I see, that it does not encompass entire india properly. Again here is the translation , Thou art the ruler of the minds of all people, dispenser of India's destiny. Thy name rouses the hearts of Punjab, Sindh, Gujarat, the Maratha country, in the Dravida country, Utkala (Orissa) and Bengal; It echoes in the hills of the Vindhyas and Himalayas, it mingles in the rhapsodies of the pure waters Jamuna and the Ganges. They chant only thy name, they seek only thy blessings, They sing only thy praise. The saving of all people waits in thy hand, thou dispenser of India's destiny. Victory, Victory, Victory, Victory to thee. You imagine too much my friend , when you assume that he is talking about this state , that state etc . Only states that he mentions explicitly are "Punjab", "Sind", "Gujarat" , "Bengal".And he mentions only north Indian rivers and geographical terrain. I don't want to buy your spin here. Sorry !

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark

Misguided ? Do you even know wtf you are talking about ?

At least I know if my ar$e is talking are not . Can't say the same thing about you.

All it talks about is some ideological nonsense about fighting for this,that and all that while throwing in the mention of a flag here and there. So tomorrow if Britain adopted the stars-n-stripes as the banner and america got a new flag plus britain adopted this song as nationa anthem, it would FIT perfectly with no fault. But not with our anthem - our anthem is 'india-unique'. No other country can use it or describe their country like our anthem does. THAT is why i said its stupdly ideological and not reflective of the NATION.

Again , US national anthem does not selectively mention certain states and ignores an entire region.Their is no bias in the anthem unlike ours which can be easily inferred as regional National Anthem. In my opinion , it is much better national anthem than ours and ideologically brilliant I must add.