Sarkozy is President of France

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

B/W karke babe banane ki koshish kar rahe ho sonia gandhi ko tum.. trust me B/W pictures are scam

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

French citizens have every right to lean towards the right in my opinion. Labor Party will also suffer the same fate in Britain next.

Interesting that you bring that up, KR. If the Conservatives win in Britain, it will be more of an anti-establishment vote. Labour has been in power for 11 years, and by all accounts, Britain has done well under them. Growth in every single year, low inflation, rising property prices, booming service sector, overtaking France to become the second largest economy in Europe six years ago. Britain is not yet anti-immigration as a nation. Yes, the mass advent of the East Europeans has lead to some resentment, but the experts have been quick to point out the economic benefits, and it's all rather low key, kind of a a token protest. Islamophobia does rear its head sometimes, but both major parties are pretty similar in their stance towards Muslims. The government's involvement in Iraq has been a much bigger issue. Gordon Brown might still scrape through on his economic record, though. In France, on the other hand, I believe Sarkozy has the same political leanings as Mitterand. But France is much more anti-immigration than Britain, always has been. They are looking for some scapegoats for the high unemployment, economic woes, and people leaving the country in hordes to look for opportunities elsewhere. Therefore, no anti-establishment vote in France. More of a fear of the unknown in keeping out Royal and opting for the more hard-nosed and experienced Sarkozy.

Dhondy , I just love the way you write, mate . It's so natural :wtg: Please don't accuse me of plagiarism if I steal some of your lines because I will be guilty as charged. Coming back to the point in hand , I had actually foreseen this situation before regarding the election of Sarkozy. Immediately after the 2005 riots, France had become increasingly polarized and somewhat xenophobic. The very fact that this guy got elected is a clear indication that France has become increasingly right leaning. Keep in mind this the same guy who had added fuel to the fire during the 2005 riots wherein as an interior minister under Chirac government , he actually called the rioters "Scum". The young people (especially unemployed muslims) were offended by his lack of sensitivity over the incident involving the death of two teenagers electrocuted in a power substation while evading police . This incident actually sparked off the riots. Srakozy has been known to have huge gripe with the predominately North African muslim population of France. I feel that this is a mandate for change wherein the people of france are saying enough is enough. I can sense the xenophobia that is prevalent in france.And we really cannot blame them for this. Muslims in Europe unlike US are becoming increasingly radical. Many of them sympathize with these crazy bigoted imams and mullahs who spew hate against the west and actually advocate Sharia and it's draconian tenets. In my opinion , anybody who endorses Sharia is an enemy of democracy.One of the main tenets of democracy is the separation of church and state and this can be NEVER achieved under Sharia. History is a witness to this fact. I have two words for those of claim otherwise viz Dhimmi and Jaziya. Also, I would like to add that Srakozy may come across as a arrogant bigot . But Segolene Royal is no saint either. This beautiful damsel had actually tried to start fear mongering by propagating a notion that his election would unleash riots and unrest in the country. Coming back to the situation in UK , my gut feeling is that the conservative party is going to win this time. Agreed that labor party has done well in key indicators such as inflation, property prices, booming service sector etc. But , I would guess that in any social democracy the right wing parties are deemed to be tougher on immigration and more supportive of law enforcement. Same is the case with Britain. It's a known fact that British muslims are some of the most radical elements in Europe. Average Joe in britain is very much concerned about this . The very fact that radical BNP is gaining popularity among the some of the masses and are actually doing reasonably well in local councils tells me that people are very much concerned about immigration and british muslims. In fact ,the irony here is BNP is trying to recruit some Sikhs to their fold. British Muslims are also to be blamed for the current quagmire in the political situation. London bombings did not help their cause. It's a known fact that British muslims especially that of Pakistani origin lag behind Indians in every social indicator. Rather than blaming themselves they always play the victim mentality and blame everybody else under the sun except themselves. How can these guys assimilate in secular british society when the truth of the matter is that some of them actually empathize with Sharia and radical islam. Recent poll is a clear vindication to this point and in fact DSR has posted a thread to this effect wherein 61% wanted Islamic courts - operating on sharia principles and 40 % endorsed Sharia law in Britain. In the same poll , further proof for radicalization theory was reinforced by the fact that if a Muslim converts to another religion ,36 per cent of 16-to-24-year-olds thought this should be punished by death, compared with 19 per cent of 55s and over. In summary , the entire europe will become right leaning in the coming years. Mark my words.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

Muslims in Europe unlike US are becoming increasingly radical.

It will happen even here let them reach the critical mass point. Right now they will be committing harakiri if ever attempted to be have like their eurpean counterpart. First number os not on their side and americans for lack of better words let us say don't take $hit lightly. People like Glenn Beck are publicly talking on popular channles like CNN if anything of 9/11 proportion happens again they better be ready for the japanese treatment of second world war.

[CC1981]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

This beautiful damsel had actually tried to start fear mongering by propagating a notion that his election would unleash riots and unrest in the country.

Well, i just switched off CBC and seems like Ms Royale was correct. Seriously, this was a competition between dumb & dumber. But Sarkozy is clearly the worse choice of the two. Royale's social vision was good, sucked on the economy, Sarkozy was the opposite and as usual, money wins out against common sense. Too bad for France, too bad for the world.

First number os not on their side and americans for lack of better words let us say don't take $hit lightly.

Trust Yankees and wannbe-yankee right-wingers to use this as a justifiction for killing random people. So a few muslims in a plane blows up a building. How the eff is going out in the street and spewing bile against the next nearest muslim or worse yet, harming him/her helpful in the least bit ? But common sense seems to be something lacking in the vocabulary of all these so-called terrorists and the so-called anti-terrorist 'palladin-monk' wannabes. Its fairly obvious that neither side has the foggiest of clue what it is doing for if either side had a clue, the problem would've been solved a long time ago.

[Dhondy]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France KR, you are obviously very well read. I do hope you don't prove prescient though! An Europe ruled by right wing governments across the board would be a social nightmare. To illustrate, the Labour government in the UK is by no means a socialist one. However, it is much more empathic towards the poor than the Conservatives, and has adopted various measures over the years to help women and children in penury. Despite this, child poverty has increased. Imagine if the Tories had been in power! Further, one of the reasons UK's growth has powered on is because it was among the three nations that followed an open door policy to East Europeans during the first wave of integration. The resulting influx in highly skilled labour in all sectors, from building to dentistry, has filled much needed skill shortages for business here, and it comes as no surprise that the Chamber of British Industries is quite firmly pro-immigration. Muslims are a different matter though. Muslims in the UK are largely not new emigrees. These are a generation that has grown up here, spawned by a previous wave of immigrants from Pakistan and Bangladesh in the 50s and 60s. They are as British, as say, Lennox Lewis, Daley Thompson or Denise Lewis, benefit from the high quality education offered by this country, many of them returning to their family business or navigating their own way through the competitive, yet lucrative, job market. Yet, many of them follow an ideology that's completely alien to these shores, as illustrated by the polls posted by dsr. The problem therefore that UK, and in essence, the rest of Europe faces, is not that of immigration, but the systematic indoctrination of bona fide European passport holders by a coteries of religious hard liners who populate the mosques and religious schools across the length and breadth of this continent. It's a problem no right wing government will even begin to solve. The more you hit back at these people, the more you alienate them. You get more 7/7s, ethnic riots, and what have you. Blair realized this in the later half of his premiership. Publicly, he uttered not a single bellicose statement against the Muslim community, indeed exhorted people to maintain harmony, met the religious leaders and said all the right things, as a national leader should, but under the surface, he drove an inexorable campaign against religious hate-mongerers. The instigators were identified and neutralized, and their premises raided. Many of them await justice in the overcrowded prisons of this country. Others have been forced to flee these shores. There will be another 7/7 sure enough, and when it happens, there will be another wave of Islamophobia, but the prospect of government sponsored religious discrimination fills me with dread. It's one thing to weed out the extremists. It's completely another to fence off an entire community. The latter will have unimaginable consequences with social upheaval and blood on the streets, an abomination that has never happened in modern Europe. With the greatest of respect therefore, I hope you are proven wrong.

[Gaurav]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France Better person/candidate won. Segolene was just a pretty face. The rioters were SCUM and Sarkozy was right for calling them that.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

This beautiful damsel had actually tried to start fear mongering by propagating a notion that his election would unleash riots and unrest in the country.

Well, i just switched off CBC and seems like Ms Royale was correct. Seriously, this was a competition between dumb & dumber. But Sarkozy is clearly the worse choice of the two. Royale's social vision was good, sucked on the economy, Sarkozy was the opposite and as usual, money wins out against common sense. Too bad for France, too bad for the world.

First number os not on their side and americans for lack of better words let us say don't take $hit lightly.

Trust Yankees and wannbe-yankee right-wingers to use this as a justifiction for killing random people. So a few muslims in a plane blows up a building. How the eff is going out in the street and spewing bile against the next nearest muslim or worse yet, harming him/her helpful in the least bit ? But common sense seems to be something lacking in the vocabulary of all these so-called terrorists and the so-called anti-terrorist 'palladin-monk' wannabes. Its fairly obvious that neither side has the foggiest of clue what it is doing for if either side had a clue, the problem would've been solved a long time ago.

Never mind u islmist apologist I have rejoinder but am in no mood for scrabble early in the morning.

[Gaurav]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France DR I was going to launch into CC as well but decided that it was pointless. Can't argue with someone who uses selective logic. For those who want to brush up on religion of peace can go and read some chapters here- http://books.google.com/books?id=LpMEkIZ1kQIC&printsec=frontcover#PPP1,M1

[CC1981]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

Can't argue with someone who uses selective logic.

Well it was Buddha who said hate begets hate. So i don't see how a problem caused by hatred ( islamic hatred for the rest) will be solved by throwing hatred back at it. That is my fundamental point.

[CC1981]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

Never mind u islmist apologist I have rejoinder but am in no mood for scrabble early in the morning.

You can be as dumb as you pretend to be but don't forget that you are an immigrant. Sarkozy's social vision is to do with immigration as a whole, not just islamic immigrants into france.

[Anakin]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

Can't argue with someone who uses selective logic.

Well it was Buddha who said hate begets hate. So i don't see how a problem caused by hatred ( islamic hatred for the rest) will be solved by throwing hatred back at it. That is my fundamental point.

Sometimes taking a stand is not throwing hatred back

[CC1981]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

Can't argue with someone who uses selective logic.

Well it was Buddha who said hate begets hate. So i don't see how a problem caused by hatred ( islamic hatred for the rest) will be solved by throwing hatred back at it. That is my fundamental point.

Sometimes taking a stand is not throwing hatred back

Yes i understand that. However, people like D_R or bheem take it too far and into the realms of 'counterproductiveness'. Pity they do not realize this.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

KR, you are obviously very well read. I do hope you don't prove prescient though! An Europe ruled by right wing governments across the board would be a social nightmare. To illustrate, the Labour government in the UK is by no means a socialist one. However, it is much more empathic towards the poor than the Conservatives, and has adopted various measures over the years to help women and children in penury. Despite this, child poverty has increased. Imagine if the Tories had been in power! Further, one of the reasons UK's growth has powered on is because it was among the three nations that followed an open door policy to East Europeans during the first wave of integration. The resulting influx in highly skilled labour in all sectors, from building to dentistry, has filled much needed skill shortages for business here, and it comes as no surprise that the Chamber of British Industries is quite firmly pro-immigration. Muslims are a different matter though. Muslims in the UK are largely not new emigrees. These are a generation that has grown up here, spawned by a previous wave of immigrants from Pakistan and Bangladesh in the 50s and 60s. They are as British, as say, Lennox Lewis, Daley Thompson or Denise Lewis, benefit from the high quality education offered by this country, many of them returning to their family business or navigating their own way through the competitive, yet lucrative, job market. Yet, many of them follow an ideology that's completely alien to these shores, as illustrated by the polls posted by dsr. The problem therefore that UK, and in essence, the rest of Europe faces, is not that of immigration, but the systematic indoctrination of bona fide European passport holders by a coteries of religious hard liners who populate the mosques and religious schools across the length and breadth of this continent. It's a problem no right wing government will even begin to solve. The more you hit back at these people, the more you alienate them. You get more 7/7s, ethnic riots, and what have you. Blair realized this in the later half of his premiership. Publicly, he uttered not a single bellicose statement against the Muslim community, indeed exhorted people to maintain harmony, met the religious leaders and said all the right things, as a national leader should, but under the surface, he drove an inexorable campaign against religious hate-mongerers. The instigators were identified and neutralized, and their premises raided. Many of them await justice in the overcrowded prisons of this country. Others have been forced to flee these shores. There will be another 7/7 sure enough, and when it happens, there will be another wave of Islamophobia, but the prospect of government sponsored religious discrimination fills me with dread. It's one thing to weed out the extremists. It's completely another to fence off an entire community. The latter will have unimaginable consequences with social upheaval and blood on the streets, an abomination that has never happened in modern Europe. With the greatest of respect therefore, I hope you are proven wrong.

Dhondy ,Thank you for your kind words. But in all honesty , my knowledge is very limited in comparison to some posters here including yourself. I am more of a reader and I scour the net for current affairs. I frequent other message boards also , more as a passive reader. In fact , it's posts like the one you just posted which enlighten me and which actually increases my knowledge base. I agree with your posts about the labor party and the fact that it is much more empathic towards the poor than the conservatives which I feel tradionally support the richer classes. But at the same time, I feel that Labor Party adopted a policy of appeasement towards muslims just to garner their votes and this did not help in the cause of containing virulent spread of radical islam in britain. Also, this kind of religion based vote bank politics has harmful effect on the constitution preamble of any social democracy. I can cite the example of congress party under Rajiv Gandhi wherein the supreme court decision based on constitution preamble was overruled by the government in the Shah Bano case just to appease muslims. Can you imagine such a situation in the West. I can count the number of amendments to the US constitution in the last two hundred years.Britain sadly was a silent spectator for too long and unfortunately london bombings served as a wake up call to the perils radical islam. Only aftermath of London bombing forced Tony Blair to act swiftly and he presented his Labor Party government's proposed legislation to deter the spread of radical Islam in Britain. This legislation was long overdue in my opinion especially after 9-11 in USA. Also , I am sure you would agree that Britain's participation in the Iraq war did not help it's cause either. This illegitimate war served as a catalyst for radical clerics like Omar Bakri Mohammed to spread more hatred towards the west and spread their own hate filled ideology including the draconian Sharia. Believe me, lot of feminists are scared at this new radicalization and rightly so . Feminists like Hirsi Ali constantly fear their life in democratic country like Netherland. Her only sin is she spoke out against radical Islam and co-produced with Van Gogh the film "Submission", which took a critical look at domestic violence in the Islam faith. This film is believed to be the prime motivation behind Van Gogh's murder and a note left plunged into the film maker's body with a knife warned that Hirsi Ali was next. While I would agree that it is inappropriate to fence off an entire community and rightly so because lot of them are moderate muslims, I would also be more concerned at the unimaginable consequences of Sharia Europe which will curtail all religious freedom , enslave women and deny them of basic rights including the one to drive automobile, encourage polygamy and honor killings. Non muslims would be forced to have Dhimmi status and the I can go on and on here. My sincere hope is voice of moderations among muslims prevail and they make conspicuous effort to assimilate into western society just like Indians who have succeeded quite well in western countries.

[head coach]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France Sarkozy's win means no more egalitarianism in France. No 35 hour work week anymore. Maybe a shift to 40hour as in US. American-style work ethics may prevail now with afformative action programs coming into play as in US. In essence a France more like US under Sarkozy! Is that good or bad you decide?

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

Dhondy ,Thank you for your kind words. But in all honesty , my knowledge is very limited in comparison to some posters here including yourself.

Bhaiya maaf karna par ye mutual massage kab tak chalega ..

[Dhondy]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

Bhaiya maaf karna par ye mutual massage kab tak chalega ..

Aapki g@@nd mein khujli kyon ho rahi hai, Maharaj? Jaaiye, apna sulgaiye. :hic: KR, your concerns are entirely justified. I am not sure though that Labour has pandered to Muslim interests. If they had, Blair would never have gone into Iraq like a raged bull like he did. I think, despite all the criticism he receives, the man has, throughout his years in office, followed the dictats of his conscience. For example, he was prepared to envisage a ground invasion in Kosovo, an idea that completely zapped Clinton. He was no Islam lover. On one occasion, expounding on the need to settle the Israel-Palestine dispute, he told the US Congress, "Here it is that the poison is incubated- if radical Islam was to lose its appeal". The reason Britain comes across as far less Islamophobic than America is because of the business interests that this country has in the middle East, and vice versa (note, Dada, that's what is called a mutual massage). The Saudis are Britain's biggest arms purchasers. They single handedly generate billions of pounds in revenue for BAE. Recentlly, the solicitor general went to the unprecedented extent of burying an enquiry into paybacks made to the Saudi royal family during such arms deals, generating an uproar that reverberated across Europe, and could be heard as far as the USA. Similarly, the Arabs invest in a big way in Britain. The moneyed clan that runs Dubai recently bought up P&O, Britain's premier ferry company, for a fortune. (They tried the same in the USA, but were shooed off unceremoniously). Acres of prime real estate in London belongs to the same family. As long as the money keeps pouring in, everybody's happy. But obviously, there's a price to pay for it.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France

Dhondy ' date='Thank you for your kind words. But in all honesty , my knowledge is very limited in comparison to some posters here including yourself.[/quote'] Bhaiya maaf karna par ye mutual massage kab tak chalega ..

Bhaiya , Dhondi ke post me bhaat he kuch aisi hai ke tareef tho karna hi padega. Kya badiya English lektha hai . :wtg:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Sarkozy is President of France Are ak baar hua do baar huaa thread after thread post after post same massage come on it gets boring.