Physique != Fitness

[kumble_rocks]

I got guns. :teeth_smile: PS: Put it this way- i won't mind taking anyone on so long as they arnt qualified in the Justin Langer mode. Lets just say that i have similar(though far less) training in my resume. :tounge_smile:

I better be on your good side then !:tounge_smile:

[Predator_05]

BMI is rubbish. Many athletes have very high BMI's, but are supremely fit nonetheless. A top rugby player like Jonah Lomu had a BMI of 31 - ie; clinically obese, but he could sprint the 100 metres in approx 12 seconds when he was at his peak and ran non-stop on the field. Conversely, a skinny guy weighing 130 pounds may have a supposedly "normal" BMI, but really is unfit and frail. Re; the OP - i've said the same thing many times. Physique and muscle doesn't have any bearing on performance when it comes to a sport like cricket. It's an entirely skill based sport, so you don't need big muscles to bowl at 150 kmph, nor do you need them to hit a ball out of the stadium for sixes. Fitness only makes a difference in fielding and running between the wickets. That said, most cricketers aren't exactly "fit" when it comes to stamina or aerobic fitness. Adrian le Roux regularly administered the Beep Test (its by far and away the best indicator of one's endurance) and the highest score in the Indian team was Kaif, the rest regularly performed below average on it.

[CC1981]

That said, most cricketers aren't exactly "fit" when it comes to stamina or aerobic fitness. Adrian le Roux regularly administered the Beep Test (its by far and away the best indicator of one's endurance) and the highest score in the Indian team was Kaif, the rest regularly performed below average on it

Well then its a good thing that nobody in our team is as fit as Kaif. Because if Kaif's type of stamina means anything, it means this : lightning bolt speed while doing 10 second dashes behind a ball or taking a catch but he is gonna run out of steam and start cramping horribly 3 hours into batting and after having made 70-80 in test mode. I've seen Kaif look like he's gonna faint so so many times after he's been batting for 30-40 overs.

[Dhondy]

Jonah Lomu had a BMI of 31 - ie; clinically obese, but he could sprint the 100 metres in approx 12 seconds when he was at his peak and ran non-stop on the field. I knew somebody was going to say that sooner or later. Wish they had chosen a guy who didn't develop nephrotic syndrome. What exactly does it say about his cardiovascular fitness, Pred? What's his 5-mile time like? Can he even run 5 miles? What's his waist circumferance? If it's over 40", he is in trouble, never mind the 12 seconds. I think it's slightly presumptuous to dismiss BMI as rubbish. These kinds of pointers are made for Joe Bloggs. A professional rugby player should have different criteria for cardiovascular fitness. Problem is nobody has laid them out on paper. Further, a rugby player is fit today. It's what happens after he gives up rugby that matters. A lot of them put on weight, and from that point on that BMI of 31 is only going to go up- big trouble. Don't have to take my word for it. Google BMI and waist circumferance and see what comes up. The latter is more important than the former.

[CC1981]

Dhonds- thats something i've always wondered too. How come so many of these ex-boxers/NFL players/baseball players become really fat blobs after retiring compared to ex-tennis players/ex-cricketers/ex-hockey players ?!? As far as i know, hockey players (NHL) do pump iron and do a crapload of eating regulations to get their body as muscular as possible. (ironically, in hockey, muscle-power has less incentive for the game : it doenst make you throw hits/skate much faster. But it is really desirable because in Hockey you get slammed into the plexi-glass almost every shift and more muscle = more 'cushion' for the bones/joints') Any guesses/diagnosis ?

[kumble_rocks]

Physique and muscle doesn't have any bearing on performance when it comes to a sport like cricket. It's an entirely skill based sport' date=' so you don't need big muscles to bowl at 150 kmph, nor do you need them to hit a ball out of the stadium for sixes.[/quote'] Jeez, I always wondered why Venkatpathy Raju aka muscles never became a fast bowler.:confused_smile:

[Predator_05]

Well then its a good thing that nobody in our team is as fit as Kaif. Because if Kaif's type of stamina means anything, it means this : lightning bolt speed while doing 10 second dashes behind a ball or taking a catch but he is gonna run out of steam and start cramping horribly 3 hours into batting and after having made 70-80 in test mode. I've seen Kaif look like he's gonna faint so so many times after he's been batting for 30-40 overs.

I've watched him play since his career began, and only once did i see him cramping up badly - vs Australia @ Chennai in '04. It was 40 c that day anyway, and he hadn't eaten anything because he was fasting for Ramadan or something. If he scored higher on the beep test than any other player on the team, then yes he IS the fittest player on the team. I am not going to bother arguing this as the beep test doesn't lie - it's as accurate an indicator of cardiovascular fitness as you will find.

I think it's slightly presumptuous to dismiss BMI as rubbish. These kinds of pointers are made for Joe Bloggs. A professional rugby player should have different criteria for cardiovascular fitness. Problem is nobody has laid them out on paper.

True, but it does show a flaw in the system. The level of stamina required to play rugby or american football is different from say, cycling or football - why would Jonah Lomu have to run 5 miles anyway ? People can be perfectly healthy even if they may have a high BMI. I've heard of heavyweight boxers like Riddick Bowe running several miles before fights, so it's not as if they are incapable of doing so. BMI doesn't take into account weight distribution, hence why i don't think highly of it.

[Dhondy]

That's easy. Once you establish a particular appetite/diet, it's difficult to change that even though your activity levels drop. The former group you mentioned are all strength performers. They all deliberately bulk up, eat like a horse. When they retire, that diet needs to change dramatically. When it doesn't they bloat up. That could conceivably happen to a hockey player or tennis player as well, but they usually carry far less bulk to start with, and don't have quite as gargantuan an intake.

[kumble_rocks]

That's easy. Once you establish a particular appetite/diet, it's difficult to change that even though your activity levels drop. The former group you mentioned are all strength performers. They all deliberately bulk up, eat like a horse. When they retire, that diet needs to change dramatically. When it doesn't they bloat up. That could conceivably happen to a hockey player or tennis player as well, but they usually carry far less bulk to start with, and don't have quite as gargantuan an intake.

This was exactly what former NBA basketball superstar Charles Barkley was alluding to. BTW, he has become a fat blobs now .

[Holysmoke]

perfect example. Kapil Dev.

[Dhondy]

I have already written about the importance of waist circumferance ahead of BMI, Pred. But both are important. And the reason Lomu has to run 5 miles like the rest of us is to get a good aerobic workout. He could swim, if he wished, but running bursts of 100 meters, punctuated by inactivity ain't going to help him live longer.

[Predator_05]

Not all NFL players are fat @sses - it's only the linemen who have to weigh as high as 300+ pounds, and they are the ones who encounter problems once their careers are over. Players in the attacking positions, ie; running backs, wide receivers et al are super fit.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Gaurav]

Like I said before. Ultra bulky chiselled body serves only one purpose and that is bragging rights (if you in that crowd). I would take a cut aerobic super fit body over a bulky one any day. Stuffing yourself with egg whites, protein rich shakes might make you look bigger in the short run but I really don't see any benefit in that kind of physique. Roger Federer, Nadal, Lance Armstrong, C. Ronaldo are the kind of fit bodies I like. I am talking in general and not with reference to any particular sport. Anything more than the following two images is too much in my opinion. Lean and mean always trumps big and bulky in my book.

[Predator_05]

CRonaldo has become much bigger than that, BTW. That picture is from the summer of 2004, from the European championship semi-final between Portugal and Holland. He wasn't always built strong either - Manutd forced him to undergo a weight gain routine in training when he first arrived at OT in the summer of '03. He was skinny as hell and needed to develop a powerful upper body otherwise he wouldn't have survived in a league as physical as the Premiership. Why do you think it took such a talented kid like him 3 full seasons to acclimatise before he could start playing well every week like he does now ?

[CC1981]

Nadal and Federer in same sentence for liking physical shape ?!? They are just about as opposite as it gets. Nadal = ultra-musculer and ultra-toned, Roger = sampras-esque fit, ie, super-fit but still a bit of flab around the waist.

[gator]

Y'all keep harping tht cricketers dont need bulky muscular bodies.... but no one is arguing for it.... we are jus arguing tht, they need to have lesser body fat percentage... Dhonds, i agree tht, if u dont do crunches and situps, the human physiology has a natural outward curve in the abdomen.... But, have you also heard tht in ANY SPORT, the power comes from the core of the body and tht in a hge part refers to the abdominal region... These guys are paid, why are they not working out to even keep fit... Gai man, the pic you posted is what i am referring to.... Are you suggesting tht, the guy in the pic dosnt do weights??? in my 14 years of workout experience, i will bet everything i got, he lifts weights... u guys think, u jus play soccer or watever, u will get a decent chest, lats and stuff.... try it and then speak... take a look at his lats.... they are very decent.... now post a pic of our own Ganguly or Dravid jus for kicks...

[Predator_05]

Footballers definitely lift weights. No doubt about it. Anyone who thinks otherwise has their head up their @ss.

[Gaurav]

Gai man' date=' the pic you posted is what i am referring to.... Are you suggesting tht, the guy in the pic dosnt do weights??? in my 14 years of workout experience, i will bet everything i got, he lifts weights... u guys think, u jus play soccer or watever, u will get a decent chest, lats and stuff.... try it and then speak... take a look at his lats.... they are very decent.... now post a pic of our own Ganguly or Dravid jus for kicks...[/quote'] :hysterical::hysterical: Aree mere bhai off course they do weights and everyone should do weights. I am talking about people who do weights to look like gorillas but lack cardio fitness.

Nadal and Federer in same sentence for liking physical shape ?!? They are just about as opposite as it gets. Nadal = ultra-musculer and ultra-toned, Roger = sampras-esque fit, ie, super-fit but still a bit of flab around the waist.

Aree tu bhi lag gaya pade marne? Abhe I am giving a range instead of saying Nadal has perfect physique and Federer does not. Federe is athletic and fit as well.

CRonaldo has become much bigger than that' date=' BTW. That picture is from the summer of 2004, from the European championship semi-final between Portugal and Holland. He wasn't always built strong either - Manutd forced him to undergo a weight gain routine in training when he first arrived at OT in the summer of '03. He was skinny as hell and needed to develop a powerful upper body otherwise he wouldn't have survived in a league as physical as the Premiership. Why do you think it took such a talented kid like him 3 full seasons to acclimatise before he could start playing well every week like he does now ?[/quote'] I have been following his progress since he was 14-15. Anything you typed does not contradict what I said :shades_smile::thumbs_up: He is super fit and his cardio is top class. Weight training that compliments your cardio levels (+makes your body stronger) is good in my books. What is not perfect in my book is when the muscle gain turns you into an ape and negatively effects your cardio fitness. Samjgaya mera point? :giggle:

[Lurker]

But an athlete who is paid full-time has no other job than to work out and atleast not carry ugly fat when other full-time professionals like a few of us' date= manage time to work out and look much better shape.... if RD is fit according to u, he can only get fitter and better once he loses tht fat.... the focus is on the laziness in this team... they dont work out regularly enuf, they dont diet and refrain from fattening foods.... and i find it hard to comprehend this... if someone is paying u to do it, why the fack not?

Very well put Gator. Couldn't have said it better myself.