Time to shed the century fixation

[Lurker]

Yes it is- its an addition to his cumulative legacy. Which is what legacy is- the cumulative ! As i said, only a person who thinks a player's legacy is simply to himself will see Tendulkar's slowed production as tarnishing the legacy.

All empty words sorry. There is no way I see the dip in a person's greatness as any addition to his legacy.

On paper. Not in reality. In reality, Sachin is still the #3 batsman in Indian ODIs even on the last few season's form.

Number 3 in current Indian team from arguablyt number 1 of all times(of all countries). How the mighty have fallen! And the only reason he isnt further is because everyone else from Gambhir to Karthick suck!

False assessment. Tendulkar's presence in the ODI team is still very much on the back of merit. There is at best two players who are more deserving than Tendulkar today in the ODI lineup.

Yes yes the same old andhon mein kaana raaja. Wonder why Warne and Mcgrath never thought like that. Oh wait they were Aussies, we are Indian fans. xx

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[CC1981]

All empty words sorry. There is no way I see the dip in a person's greatness as any addition to his legacy.

And then the fault lies in your eyes. For i've shown you how its an addition to your legacy to continue on in a diminished capacity so long as your place in the team is on merit. Your idea of 'play till you are the best and then hang your boot' is nothing more than childish obsession with preserving 'numbers' while cutting short your overall legacy.

How the mighty have fallen! And the only reason he isnt further is because everyone else from Gambhir to Karthick suck!

Yes, he is no longer at his 'exalted heights'. But that alone isnt a good enough reason to retire or be considered 'tarnishing his legacy'.

. Wonder why Warne and Mcgrath never thought like that.

McGrath retired because of his wife. This is common knowledge. Warne is too old to keep up with the rigours of international cricket. Thats why they retired.

Yes yes the same old andhon mein kaana raaja.

Tendulkar is still amongst the top 10 ODI bats TODAY. KP, Hayden,Gillchrist,Hussey, Ponting, Kallis & Youhana apart there isnt much to pick and choose from between the rest and Tendy.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[CC1981]

Bowling and fielding stats

Umm...Dravid is a better fielder than Tendulkar. He was a better fielder than Sachin 5 years ago and will be so in the future too. Sorry but this is a place where its 'no contest'. Tendulkar is a steady fielder on average with the occasional highlight-reel catch. Dravid is one of the greatest pure catchers alltime and a much better ground-fielder than Tendy- better ground coverage and a much much stronger arm for the throw.

[Lurker]

If he was holding up a vital spot in the team that some Young Blazing talent could make better use of then hell ya ... he should be given a hint .... since that question just doesnt arise (as yet) I think the man deserves his spot and a bit of space .... its not like he has gone into a Azharesque bad trot which lasted forever ...

This is where I would disagree with you. It is close to 20 years since I have first saw/heard of him and I can safely say the last 2-3(maybe more) years have been his worst. I personally think he should seriously ask himself this question.

the next year is going to be crucial ... I think the situation will sort itself out ... he is too god to miss out for soo long. If he does he must let it go atleast the ODIs or take a break.

Alright. I see him within the team for next couple of series anyway. My loyalty to him is now 50-50 but like I have said before he is in the team and I am gonna support him for that. Would much rather have him play good and India succeed than have him flop and let India suffer...all for my ego. xxx

[Lurker]

And then the fault lies in your eyes. For i've shown you how its an addition to your legacy to continue on in a diminished capacity so long as your place in the team is on merit. Your idea of 'play till you are the best and then hang your boot' is nothing more than childish obsession with preserving 'numbers' while cutting short your overall legacy.

Chalo boss we are both getting kind of repeatative now You made your point, I did mine. Peace out! xxx

[CC1981]

Chalo boss we are both getting kind of repeatative now You made your point, I did mine. Peace out!

Yup! cheers.

[yoda]

Take a close look at the no.of Runs scored and the innings played.... 88 runs in one less innings does not amount to a conclusive evidence that Dravid is far better plus the sample is just too small ... which is why I went further back ... but your attention span doesnt stretch further than the current year (which is just about 50% complete)... not my problem.

Ok, so you have gone from "Tendu on valium is much better than the best of Dravid" to "No conclusive evidence that Dravid is far better". I am not claiming that Dravid is conclusively better than Tendu as a ODI player. I just showed the stats of 2007 to show that your valium assertion was way off.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[yoda]

semantics aside ... can you please exactly state what you want to do with Tendulkar ? If he sucks so bad who are the others that "Dont Suck" .... if he doesnt suck as bad as some others why all this mudslinging ?

he sucked today is my main point. regarding his selection/retirement, i feel he doesn't deserve a spot in the test team but is an automatic in the ODI team.

[CC1981]

he sucked today is my main point.

Which is ridiculous !

[Donny]

McGrath retired because of his wife. This is common knowledge. Warne is too old to keep up with the rigours of international cricket. Thats why they retired.

Not correct, Sandro. Both the factors you mentioned had a bearing on their retirements but neither was the main reason. If Pigeon's wife was still unwell, he wouldn't have played in the World Cup. Warney bowled 240 overs in his last 5 Tests (Ashes) and wasn't needed in 3 innings because the quicks had done the job. He bowled 85 overs in the second Test and helped pull off a miraculous win in the last session. Of course, at 37, the physical demands would've been a factor but that aspect was more in evidence when he finished the '05 Ashes campaign, exhausted. He was ready to retire if Oz had won but, in typically determined fashion, committed himself to being there for the return bout over last summer. They both retired for the same reasons. 1. They had achieved great heights - as individuals and members of highly successful Oz national teams. When you're sitting on top of the mountain, where do you go from there ? 2. Players like Greg Chappell, Dennis Lillee, Rod Marsh, AB, David Boon, Dean Jones, Steve Waugh, Ian Healy, Damien Fleming, Mark Waugh, Darren Lehmann, Damien Martyn, Justin Langer etc. were all still highly capable cricketers when their time came to move over. Most retired of their own accord and one or two were 'nudged'. Warney & Pigeon are both fiercely proud characters. There was no way either was going to be 'nudged' into retirement.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[yoda]

In that case RD sucked for majority of his career ... do you now understand the ludicrous nature of your statement and how you arrive at "Sucking" ?

I am talking about SRT's innings today. Don't see how RD comes into the picture. Nothing ridiculous about it. We lost the game, were runs short and hence I have to blame the guy with the lowest SR.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[CC1981]

We lost the game, were runs short and hence I have to blame the guy with the lowest SR.

We wernt runs short- we were bowlers short. 240 was a good target to defend on a pitch like this if we had BOWLERS of Ntini's callibre. Tendy played most of Ntini- over half the time Ntini bowled, Tendulkar faced him.Dravid, who faced Ntini the next most, faced almost 3 times less balls from Ntini than Tendy! He was, quite clearly, 'Ambrose-ian' in his bowling today and since Tendy faced most of Ntini, it makes sense that tendy's ST/r isnt very good for last match. Had you watched the match, you'd know that we lost not because of slow batting but because our pace attack is SHYTE and CANNOT replicate the kind of bounce, movement and pace as Saffie bowlers (particularly Ntini) did. Your 'we lost game, were runs short and hence i have to blame the guy with lowest st/r' is ridiculous line of thought. If someone faces Ambrose, it is most expected that he will score 'slower' than someone facing Agarkar. This is to be expected and if India had ONE worldclass seamer, India would've won the last game. Dont blame the batting- blame the bowling!

[Donny]

Mate, you are way wrong about Makhaya. I accept your assessment that he bowled very well yesterday but do you not remember the World Cup ? He was dropped. Considered not in their best 4 bowlers. It's in Tests where he's excelled over the last couple of years, not ODIs.

[CC1981]

Considered not in their best 4 bowlers.

That is tripe. Makhaya has had some issues with discipline in the past but not in their best 4 bowlers ? thats rubbish. he is quite clearly their #1 bowler in tests for the last several years. In ODIs, Pollock is the only one who merits comparison with Makhaya over the last few years- Langeveldt, Nel, Hall, Kallis, etc. are all significantly inferior bowler than Makhaya (so far) in both versions of the game.

[Donny]

?? Are you saying he was left out of those WC matches for disciplinary reasons only ??