Terror attacks (UK)

[CC1981]

bare discussion kar rahe hain baad mein aana jab khelane ka man ho mera abhi jao...

Exactly- bare discussion kar rehe hain...tere jaise chote dimaag-waale ka yahaan kuch nahi karne ka..samjha ? Now that i exposed your categoric ignorance and/or lying on the matter ( by saying Russia is a member of NATO), you dont even have the balls to admit your error. Typical 'choota-dimaagi' attitude. So go and play at the level that suits you if you want to give that sort of advice. If you arnt man enough to see the error in your claim, you are not fit to be debating here. :haha::haha::haha:

[CC1981]

USSR/ISRAEL/ISLAMIC-RULERS of past don't belong in this debate nowhere has ussr said india not to crush islamist along with usa in fact .. less said about irrelevance of other two better.. trust lurker mian to take debate in every direction except the relevant one................

Anyone who thinks that geo-politics is a momentary situation and last 50-60 years have no bearing is not educated enough on this matter to debate. But why am i surprised ? Its the same illiterate dada_rocks who thinks that Russia is a member of NATO and then runs away when outed for such a blatant idiocy. :haha::haha:

[Guest dada_rocks]

If Arafat was a terrorist so was Aerial Sharon. I have never heard you criticize Sharon.

no he wasn't becaue the thinking which tells u sharon is terrorist will make each and every head of state which has fought any war terrorist.. i don't buy that.... terrorist are those who deliberately target civilian for scoring some point.. once arafat started it became war from then one.. israel didn't start any of those arab israel war. anyway what i hink about sharon is not the issue here what india thought about israel and palestine is issue here.. if i remember correctly sharon never was guest on indep. day parade in fact we had no tie with israel

[kumble_rocks]

CC and DR , Cut it out man. This is ridiculous . Every discussion , every thread , you guys start abusing one another.

[kumble_rocks]

no he wasn't becaue the thinking which tells u sharon is terrorist will make each and every head of state which has fought any war terrorist.. i don't buy that.... terrorist are those who deliberately target civilian for scoring some point.. once arafat started it became war from then one.. israel didn't start any of those arab israel war. anyway what i hink about sharon is not the issue here what india thought about israel and palestine is issue here.. if i remember correctly sharon never was guest on indep. day parade in fact we had no tie with israel

Sharon was given a red carpet welcome. And yes we have diplomatic ties with Israel.

[Lurker]

I only spread awareness Lurker ... because that is the key to all our problems.

What is the key of all our problems BB - Islam? Do confirm lest I assume anything wrong.

I thought this was evident in that Gandhi thread we discussed last month but I guess not.

I think you are being unkind here. You made a fair point in the Gandhi thread and I accepted it, did I not? But don't you find yourself being getting too obsessive with all these one-track information on Islam/Muslims? I mean come on you are smarter than putting all your eggs in one basket like that.

And I find it odd that you should level accusations at me when its you who has had the wrong version of history atleast in the Gandhi/NoSharia "EVER" thread.

Wherever you raised a fair point I have always agreed, if you have been able to convince me. Now surely you can not beleive that you have always convinced, or that I have convinced you for that matter, so there is little point to this.

I still await your reasoning behind why you find FFI ludicrous.

I may have missed this. What do you mean by FFI?

Back in the early days Chacha Nehru sent them strong feelers (to put it Mildly) that Capitalism = Evil and hence they went looking elsewhere. Its not like US had anything against India .... our shanpatti Babus had this fetish for Socialism and rest is history as the cliche goes

I had already replied to this. The first resolution was passed in 1948 which means months into Indian Independence. It is not that Americans sent feelers for a decade or so. By the way I will take umbrage to that as well since many American rulers were anyway not too keen on Indian Independence. All this talk about America sending feelers is only hearsay, show me some proof. On the other hand I have given you proof of American support to Pakistan's position as early as 1948.

I also told you why the US plumped for Pak in the first place. It had nothing to do with Kashmir and everything to do with Nehru and most of leadership being left leaning ... Now do you agree to that or not ?

No you have not. The only thing you have done is put two and two together, and in a very crude way. You assumed Nehru is a socialist and hence he shunned USA, and you saw India being pushed around by USA for Pakistan and bingo out comes your theory. There is little merit to that argument when the USA action(or lack thereof) goes all the way back to 1948. By the way why is it that Capitalist USA had good relations with COmmunist China, even in 70's and not India?

I also told you that despite all this the US did try to break ice with Nehru in the 50s untill they finally gave up after Nehru going totally the commie way (this is from my memory of reading it someplace but I dont have time to dig up and provide links etc ... will try during WE)

Okay in that case I will await to read on that. Nehru was not a Commie, socialist yes but commie nah. Anyway will wait if you can get some time about this.

Now what is USAs mistake in this scenario ? If you are saying supporting a rogue Islamic nation like Pak ... then I agree ... But thats based on ethics but remember there are no rules for any party in this business .

USA's mistake is simple - lack of ethics/morality. I see you agree to that but in a roundabout way. You want us to be immoral too. Looking after his own interest should not become "End justifying the means" and this is where me and you have fundamental difference me thinks. By the way USA's support for Pakistan was for 2 reasons - 1) get a foothold right next to USSR. 2) Get friends in Islamic states, more for Gasoline rather than anything else. India did not have either so it did not rate high in the list, simple. Today it does, why? There is another competitor now - China.

We keep harking on adarshwaad and assume that the big players will adhere to adarswaad and gentlemanly conduct.

Actually that is what YOU are advocating, not me. If anything I am suggesting treading carefully when it comes to a country like USA which has never served our interest in the past.

So does that clear this up or do you still need any more elaboration ?

Actually I never asked for elaboration BB. You elaborated yourself, and frankly it was good to hear. But still my questions remain. Read the 4 point questions all over again and tell me - 1) Yes/No answers. 2) Why dont I have a fair argument against USA based on the points. xxx

[kumble_rocks]

And you support Lurks' date='Shwetabh and Co ... so I level out the playing field .. and its not like we run away unlike some of your partners when pointed questions are asked. We stand up and respond to the deluge of questions day-in and day out .... Ask away to your hearts content. :haha:[/quote'] I support good posts by any posters. Just the other thread I supported DR . Look, it's plain for anybody to see who aligns with who. And I don't like to run away from any thread,any topic because I believe in the truth.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Anyone who thinks that geo-politics is a momentary situation and last 50-60 years have no bearing is not educated enough on this matter to debate. But why am i surprised ? Its the same illiterate dada_rocks who thinks that Russia is a member of NATO and then runs away when outed for such a blatant idiocy. :haha::haha:

how did u come p with that number let me guess.. it was convenient to put arocss some theory:haha: another lesson for u for today after that constitutiona lesson.. 10-20-30 years doesn't matter even happenstance of five years before can become irrelevant.. it's all subjective. In case of modern world hitsory russia's disintegration andend of corld war was that seminal event which reset all geo-political equation .. so to draw sthg from other side of that seminal historical divide is utterly foolish...

[Gaurav]

Then please tell me ' date=' why does US always support Israel or Great Britain.[/quote'] Because those relationships serve them very well. They are almost like US colonies. Don't forget also that US and Brits have fought alongside plenty of times and are still fighting. That kind of trust is very rare. Still the bottom line is it serves all sides well. US is the sole superpower that can effectively project it's reach all over the globe. UK is smart/dumb (depending on your POV )and throws it's weight behind US.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Dada there is really no need to get abusive or continue the discussion when others are not behaving. Leave them to the mods.

Now who did I get abusive with?....... feel free to purge those posts i:thumbs_up:

[Lurker]

Lot of fan boys here. It's like a boxing match and everyone is backing their fighter. Lurker must be head of CIA and Mossad. Lurker knows every little thing that goes on in this world behind closed doors.

Not sure if I know everything but you sure know nothing! For man that wallows about being a Kashmiri Pundit and keeps harping on about Religion of Peace and how they hacked KP's it is fascinating to see how little he knows about Western reaction vis a vis Kashmir. A note to you - do your homework, pun intentional.

US does not owe us anything! Why would USA declare Pak a terrorist state when Mushy is doing everything it needs like a 2p whore? Did I ever say US is our friend and we should trust USA? Don't confuse my stand with other posters stand!

US does not owe us anything, we don't owe them anything. End of the story. They need our help(with Taliban, whoever) they better EARN it. So far they have not.

Btw if India had started a full blown conflict then your spiritual trip to the ghats of Ganges would have been history.

Ah I see personal attacks now. You know the first rule of debate? A person who starts losing the debate starts personal attacks, so you know where you stand.

Yeah but you have all the cold hard facts. So Indira's death had nothing to do with Golden temple?

Let me throw it back at you now. Did Golden Temple had EVERYTHING to do with Indira Gandhi's murder?

Did Mossadtrain LTTE specifically for the purpose of killing Indian soldiers?

Yes they did.

Is Pakistan our second largest supplier of weapons? Has Pakistan ever supplied us weapons during a conflict? Kuch difference dikh rahi hai in your Pak Israel comparison?

What a great response!! Kudos Mr. ABCD. Basically this is what you are saying - A country(Israel) is forgiven of the fact that it helped killed Indian soldiers(in hundreds atleast if not thousands) because ten years later they sold weapons to India during Kargil. Keep embarssing yourself GKD. :hysterical:

Not really good friends then are they? Would you sell out your friend for $$$? So we agree that every nation does what it needs to do to cover it's @ss?...be it USA, Russia or China? Don't get me wrong as I am pro Russia when it comes to arms procurement but I am not blinkered like you about the bhai bhai type of attitude. No true friends when it comes to world politics. It's all about striking the iron while it's hot!

You are not blinkered you are merely ignorant. I have never said go with USSR all the time, but if history teaches us anything that is USSR has helped us more than any freaking country in our history. And so I am more than happy to say we need to expand on our relation with USSR. Unfortunately ignorant ABCD's look more towards their white masters from West..ah well! xxx

[CC1981]

how did u come p with that number let me guess.. it was convenient to put arocss some theory

Actually 50-60 years was a contextual example for India and that too, conservative. When professors of history and politics categorically demonstrate that geo-political scenarios are influenced by political decisions from the last 150-100 years and has been so ever since 1500s, when the whole 'east-meets-west-meets-americas' materialised. The history of modern politics is a most categoric statement into this.

10-20-30 years doesn't matter even happenstance of five years before can become irrelevant.. it's all subjective. In case of modern world hitsory russia's disintegration andend of corld war was that seminal event which reset all geo-political equation ..

Err no, it most definitely did not reset any geo-politican equation. Geo-political affiliations are built with acquision of allies in mind- 'brand loyalty' counts for a lot in geo-politics and sets a huge precedence for foreign policy too. Your spiel is categorically false but then again, as i said, your knowledge on this matter - which is negligible- is summed up by your hillarious comment that Russia is a part of NATO.

[Guest dada_rocks]

UK has tasted later we have already tasted the fruits of educated muslim folks labour in Javeri bazaar episode so this in no way is just UK's problme before them it's our problem.. Take it or leave it can't deny the fact. Thankfully India understands this.. Other day was watching ibnlive; on poll of whether religious profiling is a necessary evil overwhelming 72% said yes.. in same episode Saeed Naqvi true his apologist self put forward the conspiracy theory of since Gordon brown is new he has cooked all these things up to show himself as hard nut..........

[Guest dada_rocks]

Aadrashwad: wish u were consistent aadarshadi but u are not u are islamic apologist. Because when it comes to their issue youcome up with some very imaginative alibi to defend in-ur -ace barbarians like tipu aurangjeb.. So basically whenever what serves ur purpose u latch on to it.

[Lurker]

our choices are : 1. Adarshwaad - Which brings a lot of misery along with it and nothing more. 2. Do what it takes.

Okay hold on a second. Your problem is that you see the world in Black and white, there is no shades of grey. What makes you think Adarshwaad can only be accompanied with misery? Basically you advocate taking the easy way out even if it means doing immoral activies, and then qualify it as do what it takes.

And FFI is Faithfreedom International

Oh okay. Well thats a no-brainer really. Any website, book, magazine that thrives on single point agenda and that is to breed hatred, and quantify as spreading awareness, 24*7 is not worth my time.

They did exist even back then didnt they and ever just as bad if not worse back then.

You still have not anwered my bulleted questions BB.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Actually 50-60 years was a contextual example for India and that too, conservative. When professors of history and politics categorically demonstrate that geo-political scenarios are influenced by political decisions from the last 150-100 years and has been so ever since 1500s, when the whole 'east-meets-west-meets-americas' materialised. The history of modern politics is a most categoric statement into this. Err no, it most definitely did not reset any geo-politican equation. Geo-political affiliations are built with acquision of allies in mind- 'brand loyalty' counts for a lot in geo-politics and sets a huge precedence for foreign policy too. Your spiel is categorically false but then again, as i said, your knowledge on this matter - which is negligible- is summed up by your hillarious comment that Russia is a part of NATO.

More than brand loyalty is concurrance of political ethos and that's what INdia/USa relation enjoys... Democracies nseldom go in war against each other for some reason... I have no interest in word play on NATO fact remains. russia does everythign with NATo which its member does onstantly consutl n security beef ups so latching on to technicality is at best is cheap. add the word virtual member it makes all the sens of that's what pleases you.. Point is NATo which was sworn enemy of russia is anythign but

[CC1981]

Look, Russia and Indian alliance in the modern world context is a very very good thing. There are many reasons why being more Russia-centric than US-centric is in India's favour: 1. The world is a really fracked 'uni-polar' world today. That is going to change in a couple of decades- Either it will become bi-polar with China rising to match US or it will become tri-polar with India and Russia somewhere in the fray. I'd much rather have India as the third player rather than a US-chamchaa- which is exactly what we'd end up being if we got very cosy with the US. 2. If we cozy up a lot to Russia, we can give the arabs (the source of funding for a lot of islamic nonsnse inside indian mosques) the proverbial middle-finger. Russia has more than enough oil & gas for Indian needs. Nothing better to contain muslim problems in India than distancing oneself from the oil-clout from middle-east. If you say alternative sources are the solution and Russia doesnt figure- well fine- it takes time to make it all alternative-energy- till then Russia can supply the oil & gas to us 3. Russia and India have the SAME common goals, problems & challenges- we both have serious issues with islamic insurgencies, a weak economy that is improving fast but cannot support our military needs yet, problems with corruption and most importantly, China. Right now, Russia desperately needs money and will sell arms to anyone in the world but their preference of India over China is categoric- Russia will NOT sell China scramjet missiles- they have categorically refused. And the Sukhois they sold to China (version MKK) are significantly inferior to the Sukhois they sold to us ( version MKI). 4. Only thing we need really from the US is money in form of investments. Since US is not a government-controlled investment sector, we will get US money without any cozying up with America anyways. US investors arnt gonna miss the boat on India's economic rise. So what we really need from the US, we are already getting without any further chamchaagiri. Based on all the above, give me a reason why India should categorically seek to cozy up with the US- it will be nothing more than chamchaagiri !

[CC1981]

. Other day was watching ibnlive; on poll of whether religious profiling is a necessary evil overwhelming 72% said yes

Nothing more than the voice of a largely illiterate society, unfortunately. Religious profiling is to India's detriment and that is a fact that no saffron-wadi can refute as i've demonstrated it with my problem & fuel-to-the-fire explanation.

[kumble_rocks]

Okay hold on a second. Your problem is that you see the world in Black and white, there is no shades of grey. What makes you think Adarshwaad can only be accompanied with misery? Basically you advocate taking the easy way out even if it means doing immoral activies, and then qualify it as do what it takes. Oh okay. Well thats a no-brainer really. Any website, book, magazine that thrives on single point agenda and that is to breed hatred, and quantify as spreading awareness, 24*7 is not worth my time. You still have not anwered my bulleted questions BB.

Bheembhai , Lurker has a valid point. You keep bringing links from people/institution who are hostile or can be deemed hostile to Islam and you expect us to accept them as if they are gospel truths. Case in point Ali Sina or KS lal.

[kumble_rocks]

Aadrashwad: wish u were consistent aadarshadi but u are not u are islamic apologist. Because when it comes to their issue youcome up with some very imaginative alibi to defend in-ur -ace barbarians like tipu aurangjeb.. So basically whenever what serves ur purpose u latch on to it.

I hope you realize that lot of folks consider Tipu Sultan as a hero. He wasn't called tiger of Mysore for nothing.