Terror attacks (UK)

[CC1981]

Nobody is denying that so i don't see point of posting it again and again my point is what does India gain from not taking part in taliban crushing.. What does USa nto gain part is understood but I am nto interested in that.. so far nobody has even remotely tried to answer that.. All u hear is red-herring dropping of ussr this that..

Spoken like a truely ignorant man. Whether India can/should/would like to destroy the Taliban is irrelevant. Here is a little bit of education for you on the MAIN reason why India isnt involved militarily against the Taliban: Afghanistan is a landlocked country and India LACKS the ability of setting up an advanced base that is completely supplied and supported through by air. US is cozy with Pakistan- it uses Paksitan as the route to get to Afghanistan. Most US military supply that cannot be air-lifted lands in Karachi and is convoyed to Kandahar. Since Pakistan would never, under any circumstance, allow Indian defence forces to use Pakistani air space or infrastructural links with the sea and US would've gone ballistic if we'd done anything militarily with Iran, India's participation in Afghanistan is very logically nonexistant.

[Lurker]

Heres the reason why you need to read ffi Millions dead. Many genocides. Mutilation of the country not once but twice. Ethnic cleansing. Demographic change that has no end written to it. Is that good enough for you ? Now I would like to know some of the reasons that are worth more than those to make me read Abul Kalaams Wing of Fire .. (who BTW is not the only person that wrote on Indian History).

That post tells about YOU much more than anything BB. You obviously are intersted in reading portions of history that serves your own agenda. Here is a website(faithfreedom) that you most likely would have stumbled upon in say past 5-10 years tops. On the other hand you would certainly have heard of Abul Kalaam longggg before that. So guess what now, you did not time to read about one of the greatest sons of modern India. Instead you choose to spend your time, and resources reading, and spreading, hatred.

At this point I would like to see a post of mine where I defend whatever USA did against India ... ? you suggested India went towards USSR because US supported Pak on Kashmir and me/Dada_Rocks said US decided to not support India much before that as Nehru was a lefty.

Actually you need to go read your own post to see how this discussion has evolved. The discussion obviously was that India should/should not listen to West since West has always looked after its interest. Then you jumped in with a carte-blanche statement with a = Why has West looked after its interest. Upon me asking why, you went on about Chacha Nehru etc etc. It was then that Kashmir resolutions were brought to the desk and I have not yet heard you once admit that indeed US was wrong. I would ask the same question I asked DR. Yes or No answer will suffice. 1) Do you agree that US has for the most part, if not always voted against Indian Interest, specially when it came to Kashmir? 2) Do you agree that UShas armed India's traditional enemy, specially during the time of warfares? 3) Do you agree that US twisted India's arms to the extend it sent its naval fleet inside Indian Ocean miles from Bombay? 4) Do you agree that USSR saved India's skin on all the above situations? Yes and No shall suffice.

hate to mention it but you were the one that started comparing America to Islamic rulers.

If you are going on harp on history ad-nauseum, telling how to learn from it and blah blah, then do a U turn when it comes to USA then yeah that argument shall blow in your face. xxx

[Lurker]

I said helped INDIRECTLY! It did that by putting pressure on Pakistan. Things could have got lot more messy if a full blown war had broken out! U.S. Administration clearly and publicly increased the pressure on Pakistan to withdraw its troops, while carefully ensuring that India's leaders were apprised of U.S. actions and perceptions. At the diplomatic climax of the conflict, for example, when Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif was meeting with President Clinton on the 4 th of July, the U.S. President telephoned Vajpayee several times to brief the Indian leader on the progress of the talks.[19] In its campaign to urge restraint on New Delhi, Washington was also successful in orchestrating approaches by other capitals, recognizing India's legitimate security interests but stressing the international importance of holding the combat to a limited, manageable level. Based on objective analysis and a conscious effort to enhance bilateral ties, U.S. support during the Kargil crisis was instrumental in introducing an unprecedented degree of trust and openness into U.S.-India relations.

Spoken like a true ignorant!! Here is a country(Pakistan) that captures Indian side of the territory, slaughters Indian soldiers and specially creates in the havoc YOU are keen on bringing in every discussion - Kashmir. Now how does USA help us? By pressuring Pakistan!! Pressuring Pakistan for what?? India anyway kicked the butt of Pakistanis and Jehadists. What did USA do afterwards? Declar Pakistan a Terrorist country? Stop pushing militants to come over to India? Heck no. So stop all these "INDIRECT" help thingy. The proof is in the pudding as they say and the terrorism only escalated after Kargil...until 911 happened, then it started diminishing. See the connection Sir?

Rumoured? You watch Arab channels every day or something? :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: There is a rumour that you are a jihadi....is it true Lurker? Rumours are dime a dozen.

And how exactly do you prove the killing of a head of state smarty pants? Go ahead and humour me as to who were the killers of JFK or recently Zia-ul-Haq. If a country(in this case Israel and USA) get implicated in murder of Indira Gandhi/Rajeev Gandhi that is a sure recipe for either war or complete breakdown of diplomatic channels. If you dont understand that simple thing go ahead and :hysterical: at your ignorance.

What a silly point! Shows that you are absolutely clueless! You are willing to blame Israel for any weapons that LTTE might have used against us a a direct result of Rajiv Gandhi's brain fart but you are dismissing the direct help that Israel gave us during Kargil conflict ?

Again talking nonsense are we GKD? Since you are Mr. ignorant I shall educate, rather attempt to educate you once again. Mossad were the single biggest group that trained LTTE. They were trained to kill, and at one time they were trained to kill Indian soldiers(IPKF). I am not sure how straight can you get than that. Here is a question to you now - If the LTTE was trained/armed in Pakistan and killed Indian soldiers would you be willing to look the other way as you are right now for Israel?

During the Kargil War, Israel provided several military hardware including laser guided bombs, unmanned aerial vehicles....etc etc

Your point is? Are you telling me the Israeli weapon saved the day for India? If you are unaware then read up on which single weapon helped India the most during Kargil. Hint - its name is associated with kickbaks and scams in India. Go on.

You still did not answer my question about how our friend Russia supplies arms to our enemy China? One thing I can't stand is when people apply selective logic. Almost half of the $6 billion Russian arms sales last year went to Beijing. I guess those arms in case of a conflict won't hurt us as USSR helped us in the past .

Sad development but does that surprise you? When India leans away towards USA then why blame Russian from making money? Everyone wants a pie of China these days, including Russia. xx

[kumble_rocks]

Good Post Lurker .:top:

[CC1981]

The only thing US did to pressure Pakistan was tell them flat out that they are going too far by moving nukes into PoK. The US and Pakistan have been buddy-buddy for very long now. The CIA and ISI are hand in hand in most issues- the US KNEW what Mushy was up to in Kargil. By exposing Pakistan's nuclear threat, US basically hinted to Pakistan that they WONT support Pakistan's usage of nukes in this matter. Thats all they did- which is very very little. They didnt send a carrier-group with tactical nukes running hot and risk a nuclear war for our sake like Russia did.

[Lurker]

The only thing US did to pressure Pakistan was tell them flat out that they are going too far by moving nukes into PoK. The US and Pakistan have been buddy-buddy for very long now. The CIA and ISI are hand in hand in most issues- the US KNEW what Mushy was up to in Kargil. By exposing Pakistan's nuclear threat, US basically hinted to Pakistan that they WONT support Pakistan's usage of nukes in this matter. Thats all they did- which is very very little. They didnt send a carrier-group with tactical nukes running hot and risk a nuclear war for our sake like Russia did.

Good point that CC. Here is something else US lovers need to realize. A few years back India had suggested the NO-FIRST use(or Nuclear weapons). This basically means both sides suggesting come what may they would NOT use Nuclear weapons first. India was more than willing, Pakistan was NOT. Reasons are rather easy to understand, in a long conventional warfare India will kick Pakistan's butt, they stand no chance. Hence they do not want to let go of whatever advantage they may have of N-bomb. This entire theory was based on NATO rejecting First-Strike Treaty by Russians. NATO knows, even today, that Russian Army is capable of routing every single Army in Europe based on sheer strength of numbers. Hence they had to use N-bomb. This theory was based on Western school of thought and had USA really "wanted" India's benefit or even just peace in South Asia(which they harp upon ad-nauseum) they would have impressed upon Pakistan. No points for guessing what actually happened. xxx

[CC1981]

Heh...funny thing is, Russians did the same thing to NATO that US did to Germany. In WWII, The German Leopard tank was quite easily the match for 3 US tanks attacking them at once...but US had 5000 times the # of tanks at D-day. The T-90 is marginally inferior to the M1A1..but it costs less than a fifth to make...so in reality, its 5 T-90s vs one M1A1 if it ever comes to it. Besides, these days, Russia doesnt even need to resort to its arms to screw Europe over. All it has to do is tighten some valves in the gaslines and western Europe literally freezes, given that 80% of Europe's heating is dependent on natural gas of which 80% Europe gets from Russia. The US bootlickers we have here fail to see that they align with republican elements who talk a lot about kicking muslim a$$. Ofcourse, our newly arrived desi-village bania finds this POV very attractive- they dont stop to consider for a moment that the very same ones who are talking about kicking muslim a$$ consider us hindu/buddhists to be less than scum and awaiting conversion. And christian conversions are far more nefarious than muslim ones- they will bribe anyone and everyone to get convertees.

[CC1981]

FFI is ludicrous because it attacks all muslims in the name of objectivity against Islam. Problem is, attacking all muslims is clearly an illogical PoV. The problem is simple- its with Islam and a large portion of Islamic followers are in the dangerous mindset. But a significant portion of muslims are perfectly decent human beings like any other hindu/buddhist/christian/atheist By maligning all muslims like FFI does, it doesnt reduce the # of fundie muslims or make life difficult for them in any which way. Instead, it provides them with more ammunition because FFI will look down upon you if you are a muslim- nevermind if you are a Param-Vir-Chakra winning muslim for India. This automatic degradation is providing more fuel for the fundamentalist Islamic fire because it is doing NOTHING to stop the fundie ones AND it is pushing away the non-fundie ones. So therefore, something that doesnt contribute towards the solution but is a little more ghee into the fire is clearly an illogical and ignorant attempt to correct or contain the fire that is burning here. From a purely problem-solving perspective, FFI and the saffron-brigade are not a help but a hinderance for the very same reasons outlined above. Their net contribution is in the negetive for this equation and that is the bottomline.

[Gaurav]

Lot of fan boys here :hysterical: It's like a boxing match and everyone is backing their fighter. Lurker must be head of CIA and Mossad. Lurker knows every little thing that goes on in this world behind closed doors.

Here is a country(Pakistan) that captures Indian side of the territory, slaughters Indian soldiers and specially creates in the havoc YOU are keen on bringing in every discussion - Kashmir. Now how does USA help us? By pressuring Pakistan!! Pressuring Pakistan for what?? India anyway kicked the butt of Pakistanis and Jehadists. What did USA do afterwards? Declar Pakistan a Terrorist country? Stop pushing militants to come over to India? Heck no. So stop all these "INDIRECT" help thingy.

You got your head stuck up your deep @ss so much that you don't seem to grab the basic point ---> US does not owe us anything! Why would USA declare Pak a terrorist state when Mushy is doing everything it needs like a 2p whore? Did I ever say US is our friend and we should trust USA? Don't confuse my stand with other posters stand! Btw if India had started a full blown conflict then your spiritual trip to the ghats of Ganges would have been history.

The proof is in the pudding as they say and the terrorism only escalated after Kargil...until 911 happened, then it started diminishing. See the connection Sir?

Again same cr@p! Shows that US thinks about itself and India needs to do the same.

And how exactly do you prove the killing of a head of state smarty pants? Go ahead and humour me as to who were the killers of JFK or recently Zia-ul-Haq. If a country(in this case Israel and USA) get implicated in murder of Indira Gandhi/Rajeev Gandhi that is a sure recipe for either war or complete breakdown of diplomatic channels. If you dont understand that simple thing go ahead and :hysterical: at your ignorance.

Yeah but you have all the cold hard facts :hysterical: So Indira's death had nothing to do with Golden temple?

Here is a question to you now - If the LTTE was trained/armed in Pakistan and killed Indian soldiers would you be willing to look the other way as you are right now for Israel?

Did Mossad train LTTE specifically for the purpose of killing Indian soldiers? Is Pakistan our second largest supplier of weapons? Has Pakistan ever supplied us weapons during a conflict? Kuch difference dikh rahi hai in your Pak Israel comparison?

Your point is? Are you telling me the Israeli weapon saved the day for India? If you are unaware then read up on which single weapon helped India the most during Kargil. Hint - its name is associated with kickbaks and scams in India. Go on.

When did I say that their weapons saved the day? Don't debate points that I did not even make!

Sad development but does that surprise you? When India leans away towards USA then why blame Russian from making money? Everyone wants a pie of China these days, including Russia.

Not really good friends then are they? Would you sell out your friend for $$$? So we agree that every nation does what it needs to do to cover it's @ss?...be it USA, Russia or China? Don't get me wrong as I am pro Russia when it comes to arms procurement but I am not blinkered like you about the bhai bhai type of attitude. No true friends when it comes to world politics. It's all about striking the iron while it's hot!

[kumble_rocks]

. No true friends when it comes to world politics. It's all about striking the iron while it's hot!

Then please tell me , why does US always support Israel or Great Britain.

[CC1981]

Oh and i find this categoric LYING to say that US plumped for Paksitan due to nehruvian policy to be disturbing. It is a FACT that US already aligned itself to anti-India stance, first by opposing independence alltogether and then by supporting the monotheistic Pakistan from the moment Trueman came to power. It is a KNOWN FACT that the US government were tremendously involved with the Al-Saud clan and involved with establishing their complete hegemony in the Arabian peninsula. The US-Muslim relation back then were quite strong, particularly because they both had one common ground in the 1930s & 40s: hatred for the jews and kaffirs. Trueman Doctrine officially states that America considers Pakistan's vision for mankind to be the ideal vision in the subcontinent. I have not seen ONE good reason why India would've or should've preferred USA over USSR in its early independence years- the US chamchaas here have definitely not establsished a single reason to that end.

[Guest dada_rocks]

What happened lurker won't u pursue Isral/India cooperation or lack of it........I knew u will throw another red herring and run awya with tail betwene ur legs that's why i asked before posting that tid-bits.... Repeat after me million times.. crushintaliban and taliban mentality which gives rise to folks like these doctors is very much in India's interest. If u have douibt just go check who were the pople who blew bomb in Javeri Bazaar in mumbaieducated muslim indian folks.. No USA hadn,t rained them. for them support came from taliban and pakistan..... So cooperating with USa in crushing aliban is our self-interest while not cooperating is not If u think something comes out of non-cooperation other than chest-thumping ego massage let me know I will change my stace.. These parrot like alliteration of USA 40 years ago voted against India has no bearing in change geo-politic. So changed where Russia is member of NATO and when u go for arms purchase we find price they quote is 4-5 times what we will get in open market.. Welcome to 21st century world has moved on ur insistance ofremaing stuck in 70's is very very idiotic statesmanship. BTW I hope Israel/India cooperation misconception of yours is cleared for good.

[CC1981]

You got your head stuck up your deep @ss so much that you don't seem to grab the basic point that US does not owe us anything!

Quite correct- it owes us nothing. We owe US nothing either and we have very little reasons to be pro-US except for the chamchaagiri of the Dollar syndrome.

Shows that US thinks about itself and India needs to do the same.

Yes..but not by COPYING the US or being as single-mindedly screwing everyone over for its own sake like the US is. US is losing a lot of popularity in the Americas because Americans will stomp over you for what they want. Ie, ultimately, no better than China in its arm-twistings economically. If India does the same, it wont form a lasting presence- our great civilizations were all great due to goodwill towards neighbours- something the US doesnt have. So lets not blindly copy the US- if we copy the US, all we become is rich at others' expense and putting materialism over everything else.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Then please tell me , why does US always support Israel or Gr Because israel works hard for it.......Doesn't sit in corner like damsel in distress.. Many admin has come which were not so israel friendly but they withered that storm. Israel's behaviour is a treatise on how to safeguard national interest. I believe the same national interest first philosphy of theirs told them to support India even when India condescnedingly refused to have diplomatic tie with them for close to 40 years of israel's existance.. U know the time when a terrorist like arafat used to be our chief guest during independence day celebrations it's very belementary sir natinal interest. No time for mummy mujhe usne parso aankh dikhaya tha.. :haha:

[CC1981]

So changed where Russia is member of NATO

Why do you always resort to categoric lies to bolster your point ? Typical insetion of falsehoods or leading to the false conclusion like the saffronwadi hinduvta parties! If this is not lying, then it is nothing more than categoric ignorance. And there is simply no point in debating someone as ignorant about international politics to think that Russia is a member of NATO. :shot::shot:

[kumble_rocks]

Then please tell me , why does US always support Israel or Gr Because israel works hard for it.......Doesn't sit in corner like damsel in distress.. Many admin has come which were not so israel friendly but they withered that storm. Israel's behaviour is a treatise on how to safeguard national interest. I believe the same national interest first philosphy of theirs told them to support India even when India condescnedingly refused to have diplomatic tie with them for close to 40 years of israel's existance.. U know the time when a terrorist like arafat used to be our chief guest during independence day celebrations it's very belementary sir natinal interest. No time for mummy mujhe usne parso aankh dikhaya tha.. :haha:

If Arafat was a terrorist so was Aerial Sharon. I have never heard you criticize Sharon.

[kumble_rocks]

:hysterical::thumbs_up:

Saar , neveu aawagulu DR side thogo thera.

[Guest dada_rocks]

USSR/ISRAEL/ISLAMIC-RULERS of past don't belong in this debate nowhere has ussr said india not to crush islamist along with usa in fact .. less said about irrelevance of other two better.. trust lurker mian to take debate in every direction except the relevant one................

[Guest dada_rocks]

Why do you always resort to categoric lies to bolster your point ? Typical insetion of falsehoods or leading to the false conclusion like the saffronwadi hinduvta parties! If this is not lying, then it is nothing more than categoric ignorance. And there is simply no point in debating someone as ignorant about international politics to think that Russia is a member of NATO. :shot::shot:

bare discussion kar rahe hain baad mein aana jab khelane ka man ho mera abhi jao...

[CC1981]

If Arafat was a terrorist so was Aerial Sharon. I have never heard you criticize Sharon.

Dont forget the biggest terrorist in Israel-Palestine : Menachim Begin. Anyone who argues that Arafat is a terrorist and Begin is not is utterly devoid of reasoning and FACTS. If US can entertain Menachim Begin in the white-house, i see nothing wrong in entertaining Arafat on Republic Day.