Help, Dileep, Help

[Yuvraj4Captaincy]

Bhajji doesn't haave best of the records against Pak but we pick a player based on recent performances not on history and reputation against a specific opposition cuz if you go by history, shahid should have hit another 100 at kanpur and harbhajans performance against pak in this series has been excellent and his recent performances suggest he should be in the team.

[Guest HariSampath]

Harbhajan has taken 15 wkts against pakistan in 6 matches... but thats hardly recent as the last game was 2 years back

[Guest HariSampath]

There you go' date=' Thal. He has flattered to deceive, hasn't he? Refusing to dwell on Bhajji's toothlessness against Pakistan (heck, any decent players of spin), mixing up ODIs with Tests...obviously his superlative writing skills hide a paucity of well thought out opinions.[/quote'] hold it dhondy, lets not confuse writing skills and stuff, this would get side tracked....analyse calmly... if record against pakistan alone are the issue, how many bowlers we have

[Guest HariSampath]

Zaheer has taken 12 wkts in 4 tests against Pakistan, Rp has taken 9 wkts in 2 games, Harbhajan 15 wkts in 6 games, Sreeshanth has not played at all against Pak, but has taken 9 wkts in last 3 tests he played, Kumble 63 wkts in 12 games so what exactly are you saying dhondy, who is your pick as a test bowler against pakistan ?

[Guest HariSampath]

Saw your colleague Anand Vasu predict on Cricinfo that Bhajji is about to get ahead into the playing XI ahead of RP Singh. Shocked' date= dismayed, thunderstruck don't even begin to describe what I am feeling right now. On what basis, Dileep? Bhajji has been treated as a choirboy by Pakistan in the past. His Test bowling record against them would make Agarkar and Sami's records look grand in comparison. Younis and Yousef would milk him all day down tho square leg and mid wicket, and we will lose the first Test. And who will he replace? RP Singh- the most improved pace bowler in the world, he of the prodigious swing, the man who terrorized the likes of Kevin Pietersen with his bidirectional movement and 145 kph pace. At 21, a magnificent prospect for India, and a shoo in into any international XI bar Australia's. Please, Dileep, if you love Indian cricket, don't let these mandarins murder it by making the same mistakes again and again. I know they suffer the equivalent of uncurable dementia, RP's exploits in our series triumph against England already forgotten, but except at Mumbai, India should never ever go in with two spinners anywhere in the world, and even at that solitary venue, the second spinner should be Kartik, not Bhajji. Pakistan are suspect against pace and movement, they are very comfortable against spin, this is common knowledge, surely. With Asif out, let's juice up the wickets and unleash our threesome of Zaheer- RP-Sreesanth on them. And let Bhajji give interviews to the press on his grand schemes, for that's all he is good at. Help, Dileep. I'll be your slave for ever. You have a column on the most read cricket site in the world. You have a blog on Timesonline- use it, please. Now!

Wow....strong words, ....wonder if there any facts, stats or any thinking behind that. Take a look at the record for Harbhajan Singh in tests. 57 Matches 238 wkts @ 29.86 including 19 Five wkt hauls Out of these 24 matches were won by India, with Harbhajan taking 128 wkts @ 20.85 including 11 5wkt hauls. These 24 matches won, include 3 very memorable test victories for India against the mighty Aussies where Harbhajan has taken an astonishing 33 wkts, with 5 five wkt hauls. Overall, he has taken 56 wkts in 8 games against the strongest Test side in the world, with 7 five wkt hauls Even considering his last couple of test matches, he took 2 Five wkt hauls in the last 2 tests he played. Against Pakistan he has taken 15 wkts in 6 tests overall, certainly not any failure. Here it is, one of India's top strike bowlers in Test matches, who has been instrumental in winning tests time and again for India by running through some of the top batting sides in the world , a classy off spinner accepted by captains worldwide as one of the very best in the business, and you say he needs to be giving press intgerviews, will be treated as a choir boy and should not be part of the Indian 11 even if we play 2 spinners and you are shocked dismayed and thunderstruck at his selection ??? !!! And if I point it out, you say my comments shock you and you thought I knew cricket, I flatter to deceive etc... LOL....I think you need to look at facts , figures and it is you who needs to think and analyse before you write :D

[Guest HariSampath]

Bhajji doesn't haave best of the records against Pak but we pick a player based on recent performances not on history and reputation against a specific opposition cuz if you go by history' date=' shahid should have hit another 100 at kanpur and harbhajans performance against pak in this series has been excellent and his recent performances suggest he should be in the team.[/quote'] Exactly :two_thumbs_up:

[Guest HariSampath]

If we extend dhondy's assumption that Harbhajan doesn't "bowl well" against good players of spin, just take a look at Bhajji's record against Sri Lanka....one of the best players of spin in the world. 21 wkts in 7 matches, with 14 wkts in the last 2 tests we played against SL, both in India, and both won by India This is apart from Bhajji's phenomenal wkt taking against Aussies against the likes of Hayden, Ponting, Steve and Mark Waugh, Langer, Gilchrist et al.... who had plundered runs at will against India. Anything more doc ? shocked at Harbhajan's selection in the Indian 11 and he shouldn't play for India at all ??? duh ... Don't say it anywhere, folks will laugh , and if Dileep agrees with you, please let me know, I shall debate the issue with him on his blog as well , but somehow I don't think anyone who knows his cricket will ever agree with you or for that matter quarrel with the real facts

[Guest HariSampath]

Bhajji doesn't haave best of the records against Pak but we pick a player based on recent performances not on history and reputation against a specific opposition cuz if you go by history' date=' shahid should have hit another 100 at kanpur and harbhajans performance against pak in this series has been excellent and his recent performances suggest he should be in the team.[/quote'] Speaking recent performances, even if we see Bhajji's performance in the 2004-2006 timeframe, he has taken 87 wkts in 21 tests with 8 five wkt hauls.....and in the last test he played too, he had taken 5-13 bowlin WI out for 100, and we won the test match after which Bhajji was dropped and has not played a single test

[Chandan]

Ok, Hari, Tell me what was Bhajji performance vs Pak in 2005 in India and vs 2006 vs Pak in Pakistan. Those two test series might lead us somewhere in deciding whether Bhajji is a match winner vs Pak or not.

[Guest HariSampath]

Ok, Hari, Tell me what was Bhajji performance vs Pak in 2005 in India and vs 2006 vs Pak in Pakistan. Those two test series might lead us somewhere in deciding whether Bhajji is a match winner vs Pak or not.

I have already posted Bhajji's record against Pakistan : It is just 15 wkts in 6 tests, and he has not won any of those tests for India. My question is : Is His record against Pakistan that bad to be thrown out all together ? If that be the case who is there in India ( apart from Anil) who can be called a match winner against pakistan as a bowler ? Also, what about the overall carrer record of Bhajji in winning tests and even entire series for India. To be a match winning bowler one should have ran through an opposition side to win games, take at least 5 wkts in an innings or 10 in the match. The only bowler in India now ( apart from Anil and Bhajji) to have taken 5 wkts in an innings is Zaheer who has done it twice to win tests, and of that once was against Bangladesh. RP, Sree, Pathan, Karthik etc have never done it against any opposition to win games. In this scenario , when we have a bowler like Bhajji who has taken 5wkts innings 11 times in the 24 games he has played and won for India, and taken 5wkts innings 19 times and 10wkts in match 4 times, and is an acknowledged matchwinner in an overall context for India, plus the sheer experience of a veteran of 9 years even at the age of 27, is it correct to say this player doesn't deserve to be in ANY test match 11 for India ?? Nonsense, absolute balderdash and NO cricketing logic How come you haven't commented on these facts and statistics ??

[Chandan]

Also, what about the overall carrer record of Bhajji in winning tests and even entire series for India. To be a match winning bowler one should have ran through an opposition side to win games, take at least 5 wkts in an innings or 10 in the match. The only bowler in India now ( apart from Anil and Bhajji) to have taken 5 wkts in an innings is Zaheer who has done it twice to win tests, and of that once was against Bangladesh. RP, Sree, Pathan, Karthik etc have never done it against any opposition to win games. In this scenario , when we have a bowler like Bhajji who has taken 5wkts innings 11 times in the 24 games he has played and won for India, and taken 5wkts innings 19 times and 10wkts in match 4 times, and is an acknowledged matchwinner in an overall context for India, plus the sheer experience of a veteran of 9 years even at the age of 27, is it correct to say this player doesn't deserve to be in ANY test match 11 for India ?? Nonsense, absolute balderdash and NO cricketing logic How come you haven't commented on these facts and statistics ??

Because I neither agree nor disagree with Dhondy. But I'm of the view that Bhajji has lost the sting and venom in his bowling in tests and that was reason he was not included in tests post the Jamaica match. And finally he was dropped from the test team too after WC. And till now, he hasn't done anything to suggest that he has recovered that wicket taking ability, that unusual bounce which he used to get from the wicket. So I'm quite undecided about who should be chosen as the second spinner.

[Guest HariSampath]

Because I neither agree nor disagree with Dhondy. But I'm of the view that Bhajji has lost the sting and venom in his bowling in tests and that was reason he was not included in tests post the Jamaica match. And finally he was dropped from the test team too after WC. And till now, he hasn't done anything to suggest that he has recovered that wicket taking ability, that unusual bounce which he used to get from the wicket. So I'm quite undecided about who should be chosen as the second spinner.

Eh ? LOST the sting and venom ? whadda hell u mean if a bowler has taken 5 wkts each in his last 2 tests and that was the reason he was dropped after the Jamaica test ??

[Guest HariSampath]

And finally he was dropped from the test team too after WC

. wtf.... dropped for tests after WC ? you are talking about apples and oranges

[Chandan]

Jamaica test pitch was an under-prepared one, if you saw the match. In that he took wickets. Why was he not chosen by skipper Dravid and coach Chappell after Jamaica test despite being there in 14? You have an answer?

[Chandan]

. wtf.... dropped for tests after WC ? you are talking about apples and oranges

Oh. So you still are unaware that Harbhajan was not chosen even in the 14 for the Bangladesh test series and England test series which were played after world cup '07?

[Guest HariSampath]

Jamaica test pitch was an under-prepared one, if you saw the match. In that he took wickets. Why was he not chosen by skipper Dravid and coach Chappell after Jamaica test despite being there in 14? You have an answer?

good question... thats what I am asking too, Bhajji should never have been dropped.

[Guest HariSampath]

Oh. So you still are unaware that Harbhajan was not chosen even in the 14 for the Bangladesh test series and England test series which were played after world cup '07?

of course I know.... i see TV you know... my question was where is the rational connection you were trying to make between WC and test form ??

[Chandan]

WC is mentioned just to let you know the time frame. We've played 2 test series since WC, and Bhajji was not chosen even in the XV.

[Dhondy]

The only bowler in India now ( apart from Anil and Bhajji) to have taken 5 wkts in an innings is Zaheer who has done it twice to win tests' date=' and of that once was against Bangladesh. RP, Sree, Pathan, Karthik etc have never done it against any opposition to win games.[/quote'] See that's why I say that you don't really follow cricket, Hari. Oh, I am sure you are an armchair connoisseur, used to dissecting the niceties of the game with your many cricketer friends over a Sunday newspaper, but I am not sure you actually watch any cricket. How else would you have forgotten the fabuluous effort put in by Sreesanth, where he won that match against SA at Jo'burg with eight wickets, one of which included a 5-fer? Every Indian supporter worth his salt would have that match ingrained in his memory in indelible ink, but you sir, have already consigned it to the dustbin of your hippocampus? Your repeated harping on the match winning status of this completely useless off-spinner, who is clearly living off the stripes he has earned in the past, is to be lauded, not the least because you have put up such an admirable effort at accomplishing what is clearly a hopeless task. Pray, what importance does Bhajji's heroics against Zimbabwe or West Indies carry in this series against Pakistan? The last time he faced them, he was outbowled by every single bowler, and ended up wicketless in the series. His 15 wickets against them have come at an average of 57- an ignominious record, inferior to every single bowler in this Test squad who has ever featured against the arch rivals. Anyway, back to your blissful ignorance of what's going on around you. If you had watched a day's play of the recent series versus England, you wouldn't have failed to notice how the Zaheer-RP Singh combo blew away the Poms, a jugalbandi that's not been bettered in the last 10 years by visiting pace bowlers. It was quite apparent to all that their ability to move the ball off the pitch and in the air both ways had the very best such as Pietersen flummoxed. It certainly had the English commentators purring in delight, and to many of our minds, heralded a new era, where a three-paceman attack would absolve India of its desperately sorry precedent of preparing rank crumblers at home and trying to maintain their shamefully contrived home record with three spinners and a dog. But not you, sir. You are more worried about what Shoaib Akhtar, Umar Gul and newbie Sohail Tanvir would do to India if we prepared pacy tracks. You are obviously not aware of Akhtar's abysmal Test record against India. Neither are you aware that both Sreesanth and RP Singh's Test records are superior to Umar Gul's. Tanvir doesn't even enter the fringes of consciousness. He's a new bowler, unproven and untested, and only an apoplectic naysayer in the throes of ECT-requiring melancholy would blanch at the thought of Indian batsmen facing him at home. But wait, that's not all. You obviously have no appreciation of the weakness of Pakistani batsmen against genuine pace and seam. You haven't watched them struggle against the Aussies, the South Africans, the English under even remotely helpful conditions. You have developed selective amnesia for the fact that over the last many years, our batsmen have coped with the moving, seaming ball under helpful conditions, far better than theirs have, a fact that is reflected in our overseas results. Oh no, you'd rather cling to your apprehensions, and opt for status quo- the miserable two spinner-two seamer formula that has held us back in the dark ages for so long. Perhaps it has also escaped your scrutiny that such a policy hasn't served us well at all in the recent years? Our home record has waned as the opposition's batsmen have figured out how to negotiate our spinners on dreary, lifeless tracks, even as we have neutered our seamers in a bid to stymie our adversaries. You need to get ahead of this kind of stone age thinking, Hari, look ahead, and be optimistic. The era of useless tweakers like Bhajji is long gone. We now have three promising quicks, respected the world over, and we should base our attack on them.

[Predator_05]

Relax Dhondy. India are a much better Test side - the bowling combination doesn't matter, as both seamers and spinners are capable of winning India a few tests against this Pakistani outfit - we know that. Don't underestimate the spinners' prowess in these tests India play at home. Even before the SL series in '05, you frowned upon the idea of playing two spinners; creating threads titled "India must opt for pace against SL" - citing their collapses against the combined bowling might of Razzak and Riaz Afridi. What transpired in that test series completely contradicted your prediction as Kumble outshone the chucker by bowling India to victory on his favorite Delhi pitch, and in the following test Harbhajan did the honors by picking up the man of the match award. Needless to say, India wouldn't have won such resounding victories against SL without those two. Have a little more faith in these players. Sure, Bhajji was mauled by Afridi in the last Test series, but every bowler suffered on those roads. Even the ever reliable Kumble was beaten into submission; eventually asking Afridi where he should bowl to him. Likewise with all the seamers. It wasn't until the two teams played at Karachi when the bowlers got some purchase from the wicket. We won't encounter such benign pitches in India, and as a result; Pakistan will lose their sense of security against India's spinners the moment they see the ball turn menacingly in their direction.