Guest dada_rocks Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I am not saying that fact-sheet gathered over decades and centuries is saying that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I am not saying that fact-sheet gathered over decades and centuries is saying that I know you have made that comment in a good manner of way but it is still derogatory. Muslims have been as much or a marital force as Sikhs have. Heck the entire Pakistani Army after Partition was built on Muslim Officers and soldiers. This left such a bad taste in everyone's mouth that even till recently you can hear many a Pundits wonder, "Where are the Muslims in Indian Army?". Coming to Sikhs, the Ramgarh mutiny brought to earth the reality that Sikhs could rebel in Indian Army and hence since then Regiments have stopped being on ethnic lines. Now Sikh regiment consists of Sikhs as well as non-Sikhs. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I know you have made that comment in a good manner of way but it is still derogatory. Muslims have been as much or a marital force as Sikhs have. Heck the entire Pakistani Army after Partition was built on Muslim Officers and soldiers. This left such a bad taste in everyone's mouth that even till recently you can hear many a Pundits wonder' date=' [b']"Where are the Muslims in Indian Army?". Coming to Sikhs, the Ramgarh mutiny brought to earth the reality that Sikhs could rebel in Indian Army and hence since then Regiments have stopped being on ethnic lines. Now Sikh regiment consists of Sikhs as well as non-Sikhs. xxx If u think about that sentence u will get the drift, so those India lovers crossed the border in herd. BUT Sikh soldiers crushed the separatism in Khalistan see the contrast .If anything that factoid of yours strengthens my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 If u think about that sentence u will get the drift' date= so those India lovers crossed the border in herd. BUT Sikh soldiers crushed the separatism in Khalistan see the contrast .If anything that factoid of yours strengthens my point. No I don't. This is plain derogatory statement against citizens of India. I wonder how people dont have issues with - Where are Muslims in Indian Army? but get all in arms when an author writes - Where are Gujjus in Indian Army? I would be interested in seeing some cold hard numbers here. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 All of them turned into citizen of Pakistan on 14 august unfortunately .. There goes their commitment to India in dumps.. Derogatory politically incorrect whatever but factual nonetheless. Why people don't question well because they know those muslim soldiers crossed the border in mass when they got their own haven and thsi fact doesn't give warm feelings for another round of recruitment. Besides who stops them from joining there is no muslim not wanted board in any SSB centres that I know of. They had chosen to confine themselves in cocoon on clarion call of mullahs in early days and the impact of the same is evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 All of them turned into citizen of Pakistan on 14 august unfortunately .. There goes their commitment to India in dumps.. Derogatory politically incorrect whatever but factual nonetheless. So where does that leave Abdul Hamid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HariSampath Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 My following politics.. time for my fav dialogue : I can beat all you "yengsters" at anything I can put my mind to .. :eyedance::giggle::hysterical: Time for my favourite rebuttal.....all those were days when I hadn't come here....times they are changin'..:D My first political experience was seeing Indira gandhi come for electioneering in 1970 or so, I was about 5 years old....and in a family of traditional Indira bashers ( I carry on the tradition now). My dad was an ardent political follower, and I had evolved into a serious one . My most memorable moments of last 35 years in Indian politics:. Indira's break with the Congress party and the split in Congress. I attended a public meeting addressed by K Kamaraj ( who had made Indira PM), and heard him say " I will never trust that lady again" Indira unseated by Allahabad High court and Indian express carrying stories of she asking Justice Sinha "will 5 lakhs do?" Declaration of emergency in 1975. Cho Ramaswamy's Thuglak banned, he comes out with an issue with a black front cover...police chase the van carrying copies and a few hundred copies thrown to the public in market places before the van was stopped and the magazines seized. ( My dad got one, I have it ) Jayaprakash Narayan, and other Jan Sangh leaders arrested. Vajpayee and Advani arrested in Bangalore ( a few years back, Advani gave me a copy of his book "a prisoner's scrap book", and I had the absolute joy of reliving those days of 1975-77 with him in person....he was very amazed that I had even known about the emergency...maybe more in another post) Elections in 1977, Raj Narain declaring he will grow his beard till he beats Indira Gandhi ...listening to the news late night...and actually hearing the words " In Rae Bareilly, Mrs Gandhi ( a pause when most of the nation must have held its collective breath ) Lost to Raj Narain by a margin of more than 4 lakh votes")...In a moment, I got a phone call from my dad who was at the airport and asked me to fire crackers...in fact most of my neighborhood and city went into excited celebrations, and there were distribution of sweets, crackers etc even at about midnight when the results were declared. Seeing the huge banner headlines in Indian Express the next day " Indira , Sanjay Fall" Indira contesting again in Chikmagalur with the support of Devaraj Urs and winning the parliamentary seat. Indira causing the Janata party split of 1979, and Charan Singh made PM..later Charan Singh removed and elections come around, with Indira storming back to power. Post 1980s...I will have far too much to post till the current time when over last 6-7 years have led me to have a more active role in Indian political scenario by way of being very close to Mr Lal Krishna Advani...there are so many instances I can recount but I shall probably do a write up on these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Thanks for that little titbit into Indian history Hari. I have great reservations against the whole Emergency and the movement led by Jayaprakash Narayan. In all a very proud moment for India since Indians showed(specially to our neighbours) how we can sustain our democracy and kill autocracy, no matter who imposed it. At the same time it f@cked my state, Bihar, for good. It has been downhill ever since then and to make matters worse never heard any political pundit gave any credit whatsoever to Bihar for showing the way in the worst days of Indian politics. Heck 20 years after the whole Emergency saga we had India-Today carry a poll where many Indian showed that India could do very well without Bihar. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HariSampath Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Nothings changed since your arrival either ..... I just need to amend my fav dialogue to include all age groups thats it ... :D Well....mebbe u need some memory refresher BB....Bradman debate, SRT as an ODI great based on his stats....etc...shall I bump these debates :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HariSampath Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Nothings changed since your arrival either ..... I just need to amend my fav dialogue to include all age groups thats it ... :D As I had been following cricket and politics MUCH before your arrival on this planet.....it shows in our debates :D:two_thumbs_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HariSampath Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 well you haven't answered a single question on DGB ....statistically or otherwise, and as far as SRT is concerned, you haven't answered my main question" how can someone who has failed in 5 countries in ODIs be considered an ODI great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I see another sub-forum in the wings :nervous: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HariSampath Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I didnt have to ... as I had explained earlier .... your initial claim was that DGB did everything that a cricketer has to do to be labelled a alltime great ...... to which I provided a 8 + 6 point list which even you accepted that he didnt accomplish. End of story. Khallaas . Any discussions beyond that were merely for Timepass and even there you got owned. You had the example of how Weekes scored 100s and I had Jimmy Adams vs Ponting. Check the thread..I had you accepting that DGB would have scored 200s in India and so first point you were defeated. And also I proved you statistically wrong on two arguments " batters on first visits to India don't succeed " ( Weekes)...Teams on first visits to India never had tall scores ( Windies, England etc)...You could never refute the stats which proved BOTH your claims as wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 So where does that leave Abdul Hamid? Abdul hamid was new joinee.. Always remember excpetion prove the rule. I f I had gotten penny everytime an otherwise sane people extrapolating theories after theories from these ashtray data samples I wud have been millionaire by now.. Either people have no idea what data interepretataion is or trying this deliberately.. When data from millions of samples match some theory but couple of them are not consistent then u don't drop the theory u put those ashtray samples in exception column. That's how rational way of drawing conclusion works.. :two_thumbs_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Time for my favourite rebuttal.....all those were days when I hadn't come here....times they are changin'..:D My first political experience was seeing Indira gandhi come for electioneering in 1970 or so, I was about 5 years old....and in a family of traditional Indira bashers ( I carry on the tradition now). My dad was an ardent political follower, and I had evolved into a serious one . My most memorable moments of last 35 years in Indian politics:. Indira's break with the Congress party and the split in Congress. I attended a public meeting addressed by K Kamaraj ( who had made Indira PM), and heard him say " I will never trust that lady again" Indira unseated by Allahabad High court and Indian express carrying stories of she asking Justice Sinha "will 5 lakhs do?" Declaration of emergency in 1975. Cho Ramaswamy's Thuglak banned, he comes out with an issue with a black front cover...police chase the van carrying copies and a few hundred copies thrown to the public in market places before the van was stopped and the magazines seized. ( My dad got one, I have it ) Jayaprakash Narayan, and other Jan Sangh leaders arrested. Vajpayee and Advani arrested in Bangalore ( a few years back, Advani gave me a copy of his book "a prisoner's scrap book", and I had the absolute joy of reliving those days of 1975-77 with him in person....he was very amazed that I had even known about the emergency...maybe more in another post) Elections in 1977, Raj Narain declaring he will grow his beard till he beats Indira Gandhi ...listening to the news late night...and actually hearing the words " In Rae Bareilly, Mrs Gandhi ( a pause when most of the nation must have held its collective breath ) Lost to Raj Narain by a margin of more than 4 lakh votes")...In a moment, I got a phone call from my dad who was at the airport and asked me to fire crackers...in fact most of my neighborhood and city went into excited celebrations, and there were distribution of sweets, crackers etc even at about midnight when the results were declared. Seeing the huge banner headlines in Indian Express the next day " Indira , Sanjay Fall" Indira contesting again in Chikmagalur with the support of Devaraj Urs and winning the parliamentary seat. Indira causing the Janata party split of 1979, and Charan Singh made PM..later Charan Singh removed and elections come around, with Indira storming back to power. Post 1980s...I will have far too much to post till the current time when over last 6-7 years have led me to have a more active role in Indian political scenario by way of being very close to Mr Lal Krishna Advani...there are so many instances I can recount but I shall probably do a write up on these things. Great recount, this is what I am expecting people actually writing living account of their politicization throwing ancdotes in between.. BTW apparently Rajeev Gandhi and Maha-tyagi Sonia Gandhi left for Itali after that loss fearing political backlash. This incident alone should have been good enough for these folks to be debarred from joining indian polity in any way shape or form.. Looking forward to more anecodtes of your personal encounter with L K Advaani.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Abdul hamid was new joinee.. Always remember excpetion prove the rule. I f I had gotten an otherwise sane people extrapltain theories after theories from these ashtray data samples I wud have been millinaire by now.. Either people have no idea what data interepretataion is or trying this deliberately.. WTF has new joinee to do with Indian Army? When right wingers shout - Where are the Muslims in Indian Army - are they talking about Muslims soldiers pre-partition?? No they are talking about these new joinees. What are you smoking DR? And if Abdul Hamid is an exception(as I am sure Abul Kalaam is) then please do show me an exception of a Gujju winning a Param Veer Chakra. I would much rather take a Abdul Hamid who won gallantry award for his sacrifice than people who a) Only speak big words b) Have nothing to show for. So back to the question now: Where are Gujjus in Indian Army?? And show me some PVCs a la Abdul Hameed. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I know you have made that comment in a good manner of way but it is still derogatory. Muslims have been as much or a marital force as Sikhs have. Then u also shout that why ain't people questioning about absence of muslims in indian army. I answerd why whihc was since the very fact that muslim soldiers in mass opted for Pakistan nobody has much faith in them anymore. There will always be some Abdul hamid but that doesn't change the over-all fact on ground. Then again you come back and accuse right-wingers for complaining about lack of muslim numbers again totally false premise. No right winger complains about this in fact they are happy about this development and in fact opposed the recent congress/psec/leftist initiated communal headcount in army. Actually army chief too opposed it and that divisive plan got dumped and rightly so.. If anything the BS of where are Gujjus just like where are Muslims was started by psec/leftist/liberal brigade . in their pathetic attempt to prove that they are less patriotic. I don't attach any value to these garbage I will start looking for the numebr from different states different groups when suddenly India army finds it hard to get recruits for the time being there is no such issue at hand. I am of course happy about less number of muslims by their own volition mind you in army because I firmly believe unlike sikh-soldiers these guys are fully capable of getting swayed by soem Jinnah's call. I justapose two case one of partition days mass movemtn of muslim soldiers to pakistan and nearly zero acceptance of those Khalistani call in sikh-poulation of indian army. Sikhs deserve all the accolades for this llesser mortals with little attachment to the national cause get swayed by empotional appeal for separatism and sikhs certainly are not one of them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Then again you come back and accuse right-wingers for complaining about lack of muslim numbers again totally false premise. No right winger complains about this in fact they are happy about this development and in fact opposed the recent congress/psec/leftist initiated communal headcount in army. Actually army chief too opposed it and that divisive plan got dumped and rightly so.. BS. Right wingers keep harping about Muslims missing from Indian Armed Forces. Heck to them every Muslim is anti-India and needs to be "straightened". If you can not agree to that you are either being ignorant or in denial, or both. Coming to the right wingers and Armed Forces chiefs dumping the divisive plan here is something you shall find interesting DR. General K.M. Cariappa , the first Indian Army Chief, wrote an article, significantly in the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS) mouthpiece Organiser (August 15, 1964), 17 years after Partition alleging that "(Muslim) loyalty seems to be primarily to Pakistan. This is a crime unpardonable. This is also the impression of a large percentage of non-Muslim intellectuals in India. Here is the root cause for there being a none-too-happy feeling towards Muslims by a large percentage of the majority... . This is understandable." ....... I asked Gen. K.M. Cariappa why Kargil Muslims were not recruited, to which he replied that their loyalty to India was suspect" http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2021/stories/20031024000707800.htm Please feel free to read it. You can also find similar incidents mentioned on the Indian Defense website. http://www.defenceindia.com/def_common/ethnic_group_recruitment.html xxxx PS: If you personally beleive Muslims in Armed forces are welcome I appreciate that, just showing how right wingers have time and again put Muslims through this "Nationalism" test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Coming to Gujjus and Indian Armed forces, I found something interesting: Table II State-wise Composition of the Indian Army, 1996-97 %age of Total 1996-97 UP 20.6 Rajasthan 7.9 Punjab 7.6 Maharastra 7.3 Bihar 7.0 Bengal 5.7 Haryana 5.1 AP 4.9 TN 4.9 HK 4.4 J&K 3.7 Karnataka 3.7 Kerela 3.1 MP 3.0 Others 11.1 http://www.defenceindia.com/def_common/ethnic_group_recruitment.html Guess which state is missing in top 15! xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Eye Opening stats Lurker. Trust DR to come up with some spin to counter this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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