Bradman is the greatest, Sachin comes only second: Waugh, Benaud

[thevortex]

Well...who said comparisons across eras are easy? It is a highly subjective exercise where you consider all the positives and negatives of a player' date=' apply a weight to each characteristic and come up with a rating for each batsman. The subjective aspect of that exercise is of course in the application of appropriate weights. There is nothing in this exercise that prevents one from considering certain characteristics which were more evident during one era as against another. Adaptability is one such where modern era players would probably score over the pre-1975 era players.[/quote'] I am with you regarding application of weights. But then you can apply weights only if you have those weighing stones. In this example you dont have a weighing stone (or whatever it is you want to call it) and yet are trying to read out a weight value!! Compare Tests to Tests. How do you compare one player's ODI results with another who has never even heard the term ODI? You know the most poignant question is - what if Bradman had indeed played ODIs? His better strike rate indicates that he might have been as influential in that form of the game as well. But that is only a 'might' and the man is no more. Your question for comparing Tendulkar's ODI record with Bradman's nonexistent one is like asking a naturalist - how fast would a butterfly flit its wings under water? Pardon the pun, but that is how it is, really. No offense meant.

[The Outsider]

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=192084 as an education for people who want to understand how an extrapolation is constructed in a scientific and "original" way.

[thevortex]

That is an article I quite enjoyed, Outsider. Good job there!

[99.94]

Highest career batting average (minimum 20 innings): 99.94 Highest series batting average (5 Test series): 201.50 (1931–32) Highest ratio of centuries per innings played: 36.25% (29 centuries from 80 innings) Highest 5th wicket partnership: 405 (with Sid Barnes, 1946–47) Highest 6th wicket partnership: 346 (with Jack Fingleton, 1936–37) Highest score by a number 5 batsman: 304 (1934) Highest score by a number 7 batsman: 270 (1936–37) Most runs against one opponent: 5,028 (v England) Most runs in one series: 974 (1930) Most centuries scored in a single session of play: 6 (1 pre lunch, 2 lunch-tea, 3 tea-stumps) Most runs in one day's play: 309 Most double centuries: 12 Most double centuries in a series: 3 (1930) Most triple centuries: 2 (equal with Brian Lara and Virender Sehwag) (A 299* in there too) Most consecutive matches in which he made a century: 6 (the last three Tests in 1936–37, and the first three Tests in 1937 Bradman has averaged over 100 in seven different calendar years (*qualification 400 runs). No other player has achieved this in more than two calendar years. Fastest player to reach 2000 (in 22 innings), 3000 (33 innings), 4000 (48 innings), 5000 (56 innings) and 6000 (68 innings) Test runs.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Roshanrocks]

sad saqlain mushtaq isnt added in the great bowlers section....

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Guest BossBhai]

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[S.Bond]

I have also seen these bowlers bowl. Dare I say that nobody here has watched as much live cricket as I have over here. But in any case isnt the biggest argument of the pro-Bradman band wagon that 99.94 > 55.56 ... completely ignoring everything else? I dont see you questioning them similarly .. why ? No one here has the benefit of ball-by-ball footage of all bowlers even from our current era ... let alone the bygone eras. Iam sorry but I dont trust "experts" anymore or atleast I dont blindly buy everything that they are selling quite simply because most of them are simply not doing the analysis as neutrals. There is always the conflict of interest and personal biases coming in. And there is the workings of the "Old Boys Club" and its propensity to propagate myths by simoly lying millions of times till it sticks. One such classic myth is about DGB's strike rate ... not till some brave statto dug out old score-cards and re-wrote them to account for balls faced did it become evident that a run-a-minute isnt exactly the same as run-a-ball. Only old foggies like yours truly will understand this. But stats however dont have such problems by and large. Context and many other things matter and one needs to be aware of the overall landscape and other nitty-gritties if you will ... but as an example if you do a exercise of chosing a bowling attack going by overall career avgs and Strike rates you will invariably end up with a great bowling line up and most of them will be from times after DGB. heres a shortlist you will get ( for bowlers from our era ) to choose from and you can blindly pick any and you will invariably get a superb bowling unit. try this on the bowlers from 30s and 40s and it gets hilarious as bowlers with Avgs higher than Steyn's Strike rate making the cut.

[B]Bowler                 Avg        SR[/B]
CEL Ambrose         	20.99	54.47
GD McGrath          	21.64	51.86
SE Bond             	22.09	38.68
AA Donald           	22.25	46.94
M Muralitharan      	22.71	55.01
SM Pollock          	23.12	57.73
Mohammad Asif       	23.20	46.96
DW Steyn            	23.52	39.54
Waqar Younis        	23.56	43.39
Wasim Akram         	23.62	54.53
SR Clark            	23.86	54.73
IR Bishop           	24.28	52.13
CA Walsh            	24.45	57.72
SK Warne            	25.42	57.36
Shoaib Akhtar       	25.70	45.62

Sachin tendulkar's statistic in matches involving NONE of these bowlers : He has played 82 tests, batted in 134 innings, scored 7463 runs at an average of 65.46 with 27 hundreds.... http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;player_involve=10280;player_involve=1765;player_involve=1775;player_involve=1884;player_involve=1924;player_involve=1935;player_involve=19627;player_involve=2000;player_involve=2011;player_involve=2041;player_involve=2101;player_involve=2228;player_involve=47154;player_involve=5649;player_involve=6973;player_involve_type=none;template=results;type=batting I really hope that setle the debate... Because even without any of these GREAT bowlers, tendulkar's average is 65.46... Still 34 behind....

[satyam1729]

Highest career batting average (minimum 20 innings): 99.94 Highest series batting average (5 Test series): 201.50 (1931–32) Highest ratio of centuries per innings played: 36.25% (29 centuries from 80 innings) Highest 5th wicket partnership: 405 (with Sid Barnes, 1946–47) Highest 6th wicket partnership: 346 (with Jack Fingleton, 1936–37) Highest score by a number 5 batsman: 304 (1934) Highest score by a number 7 batsman: 270 (1936–37) Most runs against one opponent: 5,028 (v England) Most runs in one series: 974 (1930) Most centuries scored in a single session of play: 6 (1 pre lunch, 2 lunch-tea, 3 tea-stumps) Most runs in one day's play: 309 Most double centuries: 12 Most double centuries in a series: 3 (1930) Most triple centuries: 2 (equal with Brian Lara and Virender Sehwag) (A 299* in there too) Most consecutive matches in which he made a century: 6 (the last three Tests in 1936–37, and the first three Tests in 1937 Bradman has averaged over 100 in seven different calendar years (*qualification 400 runs). No other player has achieved this in more than two calendar years. Fastest player to reach 2000 (in 22 innings), 3000 (33 innings), 4000 (48 innings), 5000 (56 innings) and 6000 (68 innings) Test runs.

I agree with some of these stats. But regarding 100s in a session, sehwag plays much faster than Bradman could ever imagine. So those most runs in a session records is useless. And again most runs against one opponent record is useless record.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[S.Bond]

Calm down. That list was just the top 15 or so of the 300+ bowlers ... I left out a big bunch with the likes of Gillespie' date=Blee,McDermott,Hughes,Flintoff,Hoggard,Ntini,Kallis etc etc etc .... in any case the bowling class is not the only factor ... read post#105 for others.

hmmm i am calm down lol! You left out nobody! The players you have just quoted were not in the list because they are simply not in the same list as the first ones...

[Guest BossBhai]

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[S.Bond]

But they are still better than the ones that went around in DGB's era.

I am quite sure you are posting so much and debating just to have fun! You can't be serious in most of your comments. Nice joke! hmmm Kallis is unlucky so! Because if he had played in Bradman's era his batting average would have been about 100 and to add he would have been the greatest bowlers of his era... That's what do you mean? I just showed you a stat saying that even if you don't count the top 15 bowlers of tendulkar's era, he has played 82 test matches involving none of them, and his average is 65... not 95 or even 85... I actually thing you have problems with numbers, you just can't imagine how BIG is a difference of 35 point of aveerage or 45... so an example : Tendulkar's overall average is 55.56, so bradman's average is 44.38 higher..., now will you EVER compare, even in 30 years with bowlers averaging 10 with the bowl, a batsman whose batting average is 44.38 behind tendulkar's??? That mean with a batting average of 11.18???? Mutiah murlithran as a batting average 11.62... Just to show you the gap that create 44.38 points of average.

[99.94]

I agree with some of these stats. But regarding 100s in a session, sehwag plays much faster than Bradman could ever imagine. So those most runs in a session records is useless. And again most runs against one opponent record is useless record.

But it is a testament to how good he is in that the game has become more batter friendly and batting records tumble left right and centre these days, yet so many of his records have stood for years, and will probably remain untouched for the rest of cricket. DGB's scoring rate as a comparision was just as good as Sehwag's however.

[teacup]

Sachin tendulkar's statistic in matches involving NONE of these bowlers : He has played 82 tests, batted in 134 innings, scored 7463 runs at an average of 65.46 with 27 hundreds.... http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;player_involve=10280;player_involve=1765;player_involve=1775;player_involve=1884;player_involve=1924;player_involve=1935;player_involve=19627;player_involve=2000;player_involve=2011;player_involve=2041;player_involve=2101;player_involve=2228;player_involve=47154;player_involve=5649;player_involve=6973;player_involve_type=none;template=results;type=batting I really hope that setle the debate... Because even without any of these GREAT bowlers, tendulkar's average is 65.46... Still 34 behind....

You are barely half-way there in recreating the quality of the 30s for Tendulkar with statistics. Now, how will you compensate for factors like fielding standards and increased video scrutiny of technique among others?

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Guest BossBhai]

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[S.Bond]

Iam pretty serious unlike others. It may appear as a joke to you but that generally happens with most padosees. Actually this guy comes the closest to DGB from modern era if we simply take avg over the best 80 inngs period. Are you trying to say that Larwood and co were better than Imran ,Saqlain, Mushtaq, Qadir, Gul, Razzaq ( plus a bunch of non-pakis ) ? Put you in a nice pickle didnt I ... :P :-D

I have no hate for tendulkar. Like other indians and most cricket fans i think Bradman is a class apart. I rate tendulkar very highly... As i said earlier : 1. Bradman 2. richards, Tendulkar, Lara... (My personnal number two is Lara) 3 The rest....

[Guest BossBhai]

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