Growing Military Threat of PRC and UPAs inaction, cuddling of commies

[sandtest]

A very balanced article from Brahma Chellaney -- strategic security analyst, on India's in-effective diplomacy with respect to China -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dragooned by Dragon At a time when Beijing is pursuing a more muscular policy — from provocatively seeking to assert its jurisdiction over islets claimed by Vietnam to whipping up spats with Germany, Canada and the US over the Dalai Lama — Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is embarking on a New Year visit to China as part of an agreement reached during President Hu Jintao’s November 2006 trip “to hold regular summit-level meetings”. But while Hu clubbed his India trip with a visit to ‘all-weather ally’ Pakistan — just as his Premier Wen Jiabao did in 2005 — Singh will pay his respect by going only to China, instead of travelling also to, say, Japan or Vietnam.:giggle: {clearly shows how "Nehruvian" soft ideology and spineless MMS is} Singh’s visit is to follow more than a year of assertive Chinese moves that have run counter to efforts to build a stable Sino-Indian relationship based on equilibrium and forward thinking. Two things have happened. One, China has hardened its stance on territorial disputes with India — a reality the very small, largely symbolic joint anti-terrorist army exercise in Yunnan cannot obscure. And two, as the Dalai Lama pointed out in a recent address in Rome, Beijing is taking an increasingly harsh position on Tibet, pretending there is no Tibetan issue to resolve. {Typical Chincommie lizards -- take away everything from you and pretend as normal} The Tibet issue is at the core of the India-China divide, and without Beijing beginning a process of reconciliation in Tibet, there is little prospect of Sino-Indian differences being bridged. Beijing itself highlights the centrality of the Tibet issue by laying claim to Indian territories on the basis of alleged Tibetan ecclesia or tutelary links to them, not any professed Han connection. But with the Dalai Lama having publicly repudiated such claims, a discomfited Beijing has sought to persuade his representatives in the ongoing dialogue process that the Tibetan government-in-exile support China’s position that Arunachal Pradesh is part of traditional Tibet. The fact is that with China’s own claim to Tibet being historically dubious, its claims to Indian territories are doubly suspect, underlining its attempts at incremental annexation. The tough, uncompromising Chinese approach contrasts sharply with the forbearing positions of the Indian government and the Dalai Lama. New Delhi, for instance, has bent over backwards to play down aggressive Chinese military moves along the still ill-defined Line of Control. The Dalai Lama, for his part, is beginning to face muted criticism from restive Tibetans for having secured nothing from Beijing two decades after changing the struggle for liberation from Chinese imperial conquest to a struggle for autonomy within the framework of the People’s Republic. As the Dalai Lama himself admitted in Rome, “Our right hand has always reached out to the Chinese government. That hand has remained empty…” Examples of China’s increasing hardline stance on India range from its ambassador’s Beijing-supported bellicose public statement on Arunachal on the eve of Hu’s visit to its Foreign Minister’s May 2007 message to his Indian counterpart that China no longer felt bound by the 2005 agreement that any border-related settlement should not disturb settled populations. Add to that the October admission by the Indo-Tibetan Border Police chief that there had been 141 Chinese military incursions in the preceding 12 months alone. Beijing’s strategy is to interminably drag out its separate negotiating processes with India and the Dalai Lama’s envoys in order to wheedle out more and more concessions. In line with that, China’s negotiators have been in full foot-dragging mode, seeking to keep the discussions merely at the level of enunciating principles, positions and frameworks — something they have done splendidly in negotiations with India since 1981 and with the Dalai Lama’s envoys since 2002. As several Chinese scholars have acknowledged, Beijing is not as keen as New Delhito resolve the territorial disputes. Having got what it wanted either by military aggression or furtive encroachment, Beijing values its claims on additional Indian territories as vital leverage to keep India under pressure. :giggle:Similarly, not content with the Dalai Lama’s abandonment of the demand for independence, Beijing continues to publicly vilify him and portray his envoys’ visits for negotiations as personal trips. It has further tightened its vise on Tibet by ordering that all lama reincarnations must get its approval, renewing political repression and encouraging the ‘Go West’ Han-migration campaign. Gratuitously, New Delhi has downplayed instances of belligerent activity by the People’s Liberation Army, denying at times even the undeniable — like the PLA’s destruction of unmanned Indian forward posts at the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet trijunction last month. Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor has called PLA cross-border forays into Bhutan “a matter between” Bhutan and China, as if India is not responsible for Bhutanese defence. It is not accidental that China’s hardline approach has followed its infrastructure advances on the Tibetan plateau, including the opening of a new railway, airfields and highways. The railway, by arming Beijing with a rapid military-deployment capability, is transforming the trans-Himalayan military equations. Little surprise, therefore, that Beijing now presents Arunachal as an outstanding issue that demands ‘give and take’, cleverly putting the onus on India to achieve progress. It aims to dragoon New Delhi into ceding at least Tawang, populated not by Tibetans, but by Monpas, a distinct tribe. This line of attack has been further bolstered by the 2005 ‘guiding principles’, one of which calls for “meaningful and mutually acceptable adjustments” to respective positions. India was craven enough to agree to this principle, although it is negotiating with an aggressor State that aims to keep it off balance and prevent a settlement by seeking to extend its territorial gains. Having conceded the Tibet card, what ‘meaningful and mutually acceptable adjustments’ can India demand from China? Such adjustments, as Beijing insists, have to be primarily on India’s part. The Chinese assertiveness on Arunachal since 2006 thus is not unplanned but the cumulative result of Indian missteps. India can expect no respite from Chinese pressure, given Beijing’s growing propensity to flex its muscles, as underscored by its anti-satellite weapon test last January, its recent large-scale war game in the South and East China Seas, its public showcasing of new military hardware like the Jin-class, nuclear-capable submarine, its strategic moves around India and its last-minute cancellation of a long-planned Hong Kong visit by the US carrier, Kitty Hawk. If anything, China is likely to further up the ante against India. New Delhi thus cannot stay caught in a double-bind. To blur the line between diplomacy and appeasement, and to emphasise show over substance, is only to play into Beijing’s gameplan. It is past time India injected greater policy realism by shedding deluding platitudes and placing premium on substance and leveraged diplomacy. http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=ff9aae5c-8c75-4c83-9090-83ea113eea22

[sandtest]

This shows spinelessness of Manmohan Singh.....A Chincommie ambassador -- Sun Yuxi -- the representative of a foreign power in India lay claim to our territory openly and says that not only Tawang but whole of Arunachal belongs to China and our spineless GOI can't even declare him a persona non grata... It took ONE YEAR for GOI to request Chinkis, replacing Sun Yuxi!...why can't MMS tell the communists of Bengal to STFU and don't beat the drum of their Comraderie with Chinks.. If GOI really had balls they would have announced Sun Yuxi a Persona non-grata immediately!! Pathetic display of cowardice by UPA.

[Guest dada_rocks]

PSEC MODE ON: Death to america that's our real problem.. Hindi Chini bhai bhai :haha:

[sandtest]

Now since, MMS is visiting Chincommies in "Hindi-Chini" bhai bhai mode, BJP has rightly pointed it out to our puppet PM -- PM Should take up Chinese intrusion issue -- BJP KOCHI: BJP on Saturday asked Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to take up the issue of Chinese intrusion into Indian territory during his visit to Beijing beginning from Sunday and send across a clear message that New Delhi will not accept compromise on it. The Congress-led UPA government must reiterate India's stand that this country will not accept any compromise on the Chinese intrusion, BJP national President Rajnath Singh told a press meet here. :two_thumbs_up: The visit of the Prime Minister, who is leaving for China on Saturday, has to be seen in the wake of repeated claims of China on Indian territory, particularly Arunachal Pradesh, he said. There has been increase in Chinese intrusion, which has been accepted by External Affairs Minister, Pranab Kumar Mukherjee, he said, adding the intrusion had been going on during the last three-year rule of the Congress-led UPA government. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/PM_should_take_up_Chinese_intrusion_issue/articleshow/2695257.cms

[sandtest]

China wants Tawang Beijing: China's claim to the whole of Arunachal Pradesh may only be a negotiating tactic — that's the hint from a leading India scholar in Beijing, Ma Jiali. However, the demand for Tawang may well be non-negotiable. Ma Jiali says, "The disputed area in Arunachal Pradesh is very large. But according to my understanding China does not want the whole of Arunachal Pradesh, just the Tawang area. The Tibetan people have very strong religious sentiments towards the area." {and these Chincommie lizards want to cut all Budhist ties of Tibetans with India :((} Scholars here warn that substantial adjustments would have to be made if the border issue between India and China is to be resolved. The hint is towards major concessions by India on Tawang. As for whether any deadlines could be pronounced on resolving the border dispute, China's Foreign Ministry Spokesman, Qin Gang gave a blunt assessment to CNN-IBN. "I don't foresee a timetable. This is an issue not easy to resolve," he said. http://www.ibnlive.com/news/china-doesnt-want-entire-arunachal-just-tawang/56412-2.html

[Guest dada_rocks]

We need to keep out foot down.. Chinks wud back down they ain't looking for any opne histility for this piece of land for sure.. but if we keep pu$$yfooting the way we are doing they will get further emboldened..

[CC1981]

Chinks

Can you PLEASE not use an obvious racist term on an internet forum ?? Reported!

wud back down they ain't looking for any opne histility for this piece of land for sure.

IMO,China is not interested in open hostility at this stage. China wants to use its FAR bigger economic and political clout in the world stage to give legitimacy to its claims over Tibet and Tawang. Good thing for India is, Chinese strategy is doomed to fail so long as India plays the waiting game too. India needs to get into a stronger, fitter economic and military shape (ie, keep up the growth for another 10-15 years atleast) and then be much bolder on the world stage over Tibet and Arunachal Pradesh question.India needs to stamp its economic prowess on the world stage first and while its well and truely on its way, its not there yet.

[Guest dada_rocks]

I don't need dictation from communazi on what name to call chinks by

[Grim Reaper]

I don't need dictation from communazi on what name to call chinks by

:hysterical: ~~~ There is a big cause for concern about China, but how far would they get if they were to act aggressive in pursuit of land in such a manor. This is the time when India needs to act just as aggressive as they are. China can't get the idea that India will do nothing if they were to continue doing this. It's times like this when I wish India had a leader that would say: "Try and take an inch and we'll blow your fried rice and chopsticks into the abyss!" I know it's kind of harsh/scary/evil and many would take it as the evil dictator/war monger way, but the Chinese have it coming to them with their current attitude.

[maggot_brain]

I don't need dictation from communazi on what name to call chinks by

You are a vile individual. How dare you use such a term?

[sandtest]

Any patriotic Indian would expect a self-respecting GoI to get a MEA clerk release a statement confirming India as Buddh's birthplace and how all Indian buddhists have this special affinity for the whole of Tibet, but as peace-loving Indians, we would like to see an independent Tibet. Hindus also have religious affinity to Kailash Parvat/ Mansarovar. Instead, now, we have the Chincommie lizard making statements on Arunachal Pradesh/ Tawang/ what not with impunity. Chinkie attitude is "What is mine is already mine, what is yours is also mine, by crook and by crook"....we Indians need to counter this with same attitude....thing is can a puppet and spineless PM in MMS do this? We desperately need someone with balls like Sardar Patel at this stage.....NAMO if becomes PM in future could be new and resurgent India's version of Sardar Patel.

[sandtest]

These scumbags- Chincommies occupy Aksai Chin since the '62 war (thanks to Nehrujis in-efficianecy). India has no infrastructure till mountains of Aksai chin, the Chinese on the other hand have a road to tibet through aksai chin. Chinese also claim tawang (a part of Arunachal pradesh) as their territory because of Tawang's close affinity with tibet budhists, Commies of China start shivering. Aarunachal pradesh, of course, is a state of India. Whereas aksai chin does not have any population, tawang has a (relatively) huge settled population. Indian strategic thinkers, (in their huge dhimmitude, self-apology mode) always assumed that Aksai chin was more important to Chinese than tawang, since the chinese needed access to Tibet and were not inclined to inherit a huge land and its population in Tawang. So a "guiding principle" was declared whereby it was "agreed" that areas which have a huge settled population will stay with the person it belongs to. India assumed that this meant Tawang stays with India and Aksai chin will stay with china (a recognition of the current de-facto status). However, the Chinese have built a railroad to Tibet and no longer need the road through Aksai chin to tibet. Their negotiation tactic has changed suddenly (typical lizard like cheaters). Their foreign minister made a huge statement that China now claims *all* of Arunachal pradesh (not just Tawang) and the statement about "settled population" means diddly squat. Our puppet PM MMS and his team are now shaking in their boots. So now the Chinese position of "keep Tawang let us have Aksai Chin" has changed to "give us the whole of Arunachal pradesh, Aksai chin has always been Ours"!!! This reflects the chinese strategic thinking. They have a "sphere of influence" principle, whereby the chinese believe that the "sphere of influence" of bigger and stronger nations stretches far beyond their borders, whereas those of weaker nations are smaller than their boders. A good example is Russia vs Pakistan. Russia has considerable political and economic influence among the balkan states, whereas our Islamic land Paki friends have effective control only over punjab, sind and part of baluchistan. To their credit, the chinese are more acutely aware of Indian strengths than India itself and seek to actively undermine it. It used to be the case that India could create more trouble to the chinese than chinese to India. For example, India could support Taiwan's independance. Also, Indian democracy in the NE states along with benevolent influence with Bhutan and Buddhist linkages and influence in Tibet, may be used to create uprising in Tibet against the Communist party of China.

[Guest dada_rocks]

:hysterical: ~~~ There is a big cause for concern about China, but how far would they get if they were to act aggressive in pursuit of land in such a manor. This is the time when India needs to act just as aggressive as they are. China can't get the idea that India will do nothing if they were to continue doing this. It's times like this when I wish India had a leader that would say: "Try and take an inch and we'll blow your fried rice and chopsticks into the abyss!" I know it's kind of harsh/scary/evil and many would take it as the evil dictator/war monger way, but the Chinese have it coming to them with their current attitude.

Yes same sentiment delivered in diplomatic langauge is what we need....I am sure even congress is capable of that but communazis are holding them back

[Grim Reaper]

Yes same sentiment delivered in diplomatic langauge is what we need....I am sure even congress is capable of that but communazis are holding them back

Indeed, I agree with you. The curse of these foolish communazis will go a long way to weaken the country from within.

[CC1981]

I don't need dictation from communazi on what name to call chinks by

I am letting you know that 'chink' is a racist term and if you are going to use racist terms, don't be upset when people use racist terms on you- for like deserves like.

[CC1981]

:hysterical: ~~~ There is a big cause for concern about China, but how far would they get if they were to act aggressive in pursuit of land in such a manor. This is the time when India needs to act just as aggressive as they are. China can't get the idea that India will do nothing if they were to continue doing this. It's times like this when I wish India had a leader that would say: "Try and take an inch and we'll blow your fried rice and chopsticks into the abyss!" I know it's kind of harsh/scary/evil and many would take it as the evil dictator/war monger way, but the Chinese have it coming to them with their current attitude.

Good then that fanatics like you arn't in leadership position but restricted only to message-boards. For the moment India gets so antagonistic, China will declare war and decimate us. Yes, its that simple- China has enough economic clout to keep the US-EU out of the picture and left with a India-Pakistan-China triangle, India will get horribly owned in a war. It is no match for China, let alone China+Pakistan. History has shown us one thing very clearly about China- if you want to threaten China directly by such idiotic bravado & pride issues, make sure you can beat China. Or else China will annihilate you as they too are a proud and extremely illustrious culture like the Indians (indeed, it can be argued no less a civilization than India in its historic impact and contributions) and just like Indians, they don't take open threats lightly either. and if you think India has a hope in hell in winning an all-out war against China, you are deluding yourself. Their army & air force is massively superior to ours and Navy is largely a non-factor.

[CC1981]

. It used to be the case that India could create more trouble to the chinese than chinese to India

Umm..like when ? When India was in its golden age, India never crossed path with China and vice versa...and India never fought China even under the British...so where are you getting this idea that 'used to be the case that India could create more trouble to the Chinese than reverse' ?? The only one war India and China have fought in known history has resulted in comprehensive Chinese victory.

Also, Indian democracy in the NE states along with benevolent influence with Bhutan and Buddhist linkages and influence in Tibet, may be used to create uprising in Tibet against the Communist party of China.

There is a very good reason why nobody did that and hasn't done that in the last FIFTY YEARS since China has taken over Tibet. If India or any foreign power forments uprising or terrorism in Tibet, it will mean only one thing - utter genocide and extermination of the Tibetans. Why do you think Bin Laden didn't get involved much in Chinese Turkestan and independence/jihad for muslim chinese ? The Taliban tried that in the early 90s and China's answer was to level entire villages - stunned even the Muslim fanatics, who clearly saw far more damage than gain in trying to forment rebellion/secession from China. Political analysts have long since confirmed that there can be only two scenarios leading to seperating Tibet from China- direct war where China loses military control of Tibet and/or institutionalizing democracy in China, so change can come from within the nation. The 'bravado' option will lead to only one thing vs China- certain failure. Simply because as of now, China >>>> India in economy and military.

[Guest dada_rocks]

I am letting you know that 'chink' is a racist term and if you are going to use racist terms' date=' don't be upset when people use racist terms on you- for like deserves like.[/quote'] Rest assured I will blow ur head off in million pieces:D

[Grim Reaper]

Good then that fanatics like you arn't in leadership position but restricted only to message-boards. For the moment India gets so antagonistic, China will declare war and decimate us. Yes, its that simple- China has enough economic clout to keep the US-EU out of the picture and left with a India-Pakistan-China triangle, India will get horribly owned in a war. It is no match for China, let alone China+Pakistan. History has shown us one thing very clearly about China- if you want to threaten China directly by such idiotic bravado & pride issues, make sure you can beat China. Or else China will annihilate you as they too are a proud and extremely illustrious culture like the Indians (indeed, it can be argued no less a civilization than India in its historic impact and contributions) and just like Indians, they don't take open threats lightly either. and if you think India has a hope in hell in winning an all-out war against China, you are deluding yourself. Their army & air force is massively superior to ours and Navy is largely a non-factor.

Scum like you is what makes a country weak and ignorant. You are a like a virus that slowly sickens the host from within. China and India in a war is likely to get nowhere. How do you expect armies to fight on the Himalayas? The winter only allows a little break in which you can launch a good offensive from either side. The air force is a different issue. the PLAAF or Chinese Air force will hardly be any threat to India as their planes can't come from such far bases in the eastern part of the country, attack and have enough fuel to get back. They may be able to pull off a few such raids if lucky but nothing enough to cause a scare. I would love to see this happen, Chinese planes coming over and getting blasted out of the skies by SU-30MKI's, I wish that day comes.

[CC1981]

Rest assured I will blow ur head off in million pieces:D

If you will blow my head off for using racist word like 'coolie, injun, currymunchers, oilheads, etc' towards Indians, then kindly bring yourself NOT to use racist terms like 'chinks' towards others.