Dhoni should be dropped!

[Predator_05]

So if he wants to challenge Dhoni's spot he should learn to keep again at the very minimum' date=' otherwise compete as a specialist batsman.[/quote'] Karthik's keeping is decent. Yeah, he was bad at Bangalore but we all know he can keep, right. That's not an issue as far as i am concerned. You don't all of a sudden "forget" and then "re-learn" how to keep. I don't buy your argument about judging Dhoni as a "keeper/batsman" either. The only reason why Dhoni was picked for the Test team after the SL ODI series in the first place was because the prospect of seeing him hit big sixes like he did in his 183* was too tantalising to resist. He was expected to smoke bowlers worldwide in Test cricket just like he did in ODI's. Nobody gave a damn about his 'keeping. Let's face facts - 'keepers these days are judged on how many runs they can score. Their actual 'keeping never comes under the scanner as long as they are tidy and don't drop easy catches. So he has to set himself apart with the bat. Has he done that ? No, he hasn't. Now, I don't have a problem wiht Dhoni at all - i like him; he is a nice guy, level-headed and all but i doubt that he can score big for India outside the subcontinent in test (or even ODI) cricket. His batting just isn't that good. My problem is with all the media hype surrounding him - he is portrayed as some sort of kaala Gilchrist, and the hype just never subsides no matter how average his performances with the bat are. Just before this series, you had Lalchand Rajput talking him up as a "dasher", the kind of guy who "Aussies crowds will fall in love with". Sure, whatever you say Laloo. On the basis of his average showing in this test series, Aussie fans couldn't be blamed for mistaking him for some cab driver.

[head coach]

Karthik's keeping is decent. Yeah, he was bad at Bangalore but we all know he can keep, right. That's not an issue as far as i am concerned. You don't all of a sudden "forget" and then "re-learn" how to keep. I don't buy your argument about judging Dhoni as a "keeper/batsman" either. The only reason why Dhoni was picked for the Test team after the SL ODI series in the first place was because the prospect of seeing him hit big sixes like he did in his 183* was too tantalising to resist. He was expected to smoke bowlers worldwide in Test cricket just like he did in ODI's. Nobody gave a damn about his 'keeping. Let's face facts - 'keepers these days are judged on how many runs they can score. Their actual 'keeping never comes under the scanner as long as they are tidy and don't drop easy catches. So he has to set himself apart with the bat. Has he done that ? No, he hasn't. Now, I don't have a problem wiht Dhoni at all - i like him; he is a nice guy, level-headed and all but i doubt that he can score big for India outside the subcontinent in test (or even ODI) cricket. His batting just isn't that good. My problem is with all the media hype surrounding him - he is portrayed as some sort of kaala Gilchrist, and the hype just never subsides no matter how average his performances with the bat are. Just before this series, you had Lalchand Rajput talking him up as a "dasher", the kind of guy who "Aussies crowds will fall in love with". Sure, whatever you say Laloo. On the basis of his average showing in this test series, Aussie fans couldn't be blamed for mistaking him for some cab driver.

What a truck load of bull crap! A guy who averages 40 odd is not enough! Sometime people get too picky that they don't like anything that they see!

[The Outsider]

I don't buy your argument about judging Dhoni as a "keeper/batsman" either. The only reason why Dhoni got picked for the Test team after the SL ODI series in the first place was because the prospect of seeing him hit big sixes like he did in his 183* was too tantalising to resist. He was expected to smoke bowlers worldwide in Test cricket just like he did in ODI's. Nobody gave a damn about his 'keeping. Let's face facts - 'keepers these days are judged on how many runs they can score. Their actual 'keeping never comes under the scanner as long as they are tidy and don't drop easy catches. So he has to set himself apart with the bat. Has he done that ? No, he hasn't.

Yes, those were the reasons why he initially got selected but as of today he is the best keeper in the country and is improving his keeping every series. He hardly drops any catches and effects most of the stumpings. The days of agony when Parthiv was the keeper are too recent in memory to go for a mediocre keeper, just because he can put on a few extra runs. Yes, he has not lived up to the hype of a destroyer batsman and perhaps never will but will end up with an average around 35-40 while being destructive on flatter pitches. As long as his keeping stands up, that's good enough even though the reasons for his inclusion initially were different.

Now, I don't have a problem wiht Dhoni at all - i like him; he is a nice guy, level-headed and all but i doubt that he can score big for India outside the subcontinent in test (or even ODI) cricket. His batting just isn't that good. My problem is with all the media hype surrounding him - he is portrayed as some sort of kaala Gilchrist, and the hype just never subsides no matter how average his performances with the bat are. Just before this series, you had Lalchand Rajput talking him up as a "dasher", the kind of guy who "Aussies crowds will fall in love with". Sure, whatever you say Laloo. On the basis of his average showing in this test series, Aussie fans couldn't be blamed for mistaking him for some cab driver.

We all know the standards of the Indian media and we certainly can't judge players on the basis of what these guys write and I agree that Dhoni will not be able to score heavily on pitches offering something but as the best keeper in the country, as someone who can be effective on flat pitches, and end up averaging 35-40 he should be a lock in the team.

[Dravid]

kkd ahead of dhoni in tests for sure dhoni couldnt keep in aus..last test.. he would have messed up even more times then kkd in banglore

[Predator_05]

Yes, those were the reasons why he initially got selected but as of today he is the best keeper in the country and is improving his keeping every series. He hardly drops any catches and effects most of the stumpings. The days of agony when Parthiv was the keeper are too recent in memory to go for a mediocre keeper, just because he can put on a few extra runs. Yes, he has not lived up to the hype of a destroyer batsman and perhaps never will but will end up with an average around 35-40 while being destructive on flatter pitches. As long as his keeping stands up, that's good enough even though the reasons for his inclusion initially were different. We all know the standards of the Indian media and we certainly can't judge players on the basis of what these guys write and I agree that Dhoni will not be able to score heavily on pitches offering something but as the best keeper in the country, as someone who can be effective on flat pitches, and end up averaging 35-40 he should be a lock in the team.

OK, so the 'keeping standards should be passable. We all know Karthik's 'keeping is tidy enough to be passable, so no point in arguing that as a point for his exclusion. As far as batting is concerned, is Dhoni really much better than Karthik as a batsman ? For argument's sake, let's quantify "much better" as being 5+ points in batting average. As of today, Dhoni's batting average is a whopping 2 runs greater than Karthik's (he has played more tests too). That doesn't indicate much difference in class, at least to me. Karthik has also looked a better batsman in SA, ENG. So why should Dhoni be a shoe-in when he hasn't even set himself aside from other guys ?

[Predator_05]

What a truck load of bull crap! A guy who averages 40 odd is not enough! Sometime people get too picky that they don't like anything that they see!

What were Dhoni's scores on the SL tour (Indian Oil tri series '05), WI tour, SA tour, ENG tour ??

[The Outsider]

OK' date=' so the 'keeping standards should be passable. We all know Karthik's 'keeping is tidy enough to be passable, so no point in arguing that as a point for his exclusion. As far as batting is concerned, is Dhoni really much better than Karthik as a batsman ? For argument's sake, let's quantify "much better" as being 5+ points in batting average. As of today, Dhoni's batting average is a whopping 2 runs greater than Karthik's (he has played more tests too). That doesn't indicate much difference in class, at least to me. Karthik has also looked a better batsman in SA, ENG. So why should Dhoni be a shoe-in when he hasn't even set himself aside from other guys ?[/quote'] Dhoni's keeping is not just "passable". It is close to impeccable in current form. Can't drop him just because he failed in Australia to score the runs. Even so, I wouldn't call him a complete failure. He did play a couple of good knocks at Sydney and Perth. Nothing great but in the context of the matches, they were important. His keeping is his forte these days and unless there is a decline in that, he should not be dropped. As a batsman he'll hover around in the 35-40 range which is decent enough.

[Mr. Wicket]

Thank you prof for pointing out the obvious. On keeping merit among international sides' chosen keepers, Dhoni and Prasanna Jayawardene probably occupy the top bracket right now. Alone. Boucher's keeping has declined, Gilchrist is a shade of what he once was, Matt Prior is a joke and Ambrose is untested, Ramdin is still too hit and miss and Akmal is complete rubbish. And the difference in results is very clear. India won against England. Dhoni spilled very little and did a job that was competent at worst when struggling with late swing, and otherwise very good. Prior made a habit of giving batsmen letoffs, and cost his team in a big way. India won similarly against Pakistan. Akmal could barely catch a cold and let down the phaaasht boilers when they occasionally got the edge. Dhoni barely let anything through and held some fine catches. Even in Perth, Dhoni pulled off stunners where Gilchrist let a number slip. India should pick their best keeper right now, because he's also guaranteeing a solid amount of runs and the odd blitzkrieg matchwinning knock in favourable conditions.

[Bumper]

Dhoni should be dropped ? I presume this has nothing to do with his keeping. Lets just entertain the thought of dropping him for his poor batting, for a sec. So who are we gonna replace him with ? What is the guarantee than Dinesh Karthik will make more runs than Dhoni ? We cant just dump players for flopping against Australia in Australia. This is the best team in the world, these are perhaps the toughest conditions to score runs in. Only the very best, succeed in these conditions in their first attempt. Performances in such conditions can be used to judge a player's class, but not used to drop a player. Dhoni is a gutsy cricketer. He makes up for his limited technique with his sound temperament & street smartness. A lesser cricketer with his technique would have perished long ago. To his credit, in between all his sucky efforts, he does end up playing a gem or two every series, which more often than not ends up deciding the fate of the series (Lords draw, Perth win, Kotla win, almost pulled off a draw at Durban). Aussie bowlers are just too good for Dhoni. They know his strengths & kept denying him scoring opportunities. They made Dhoni reach for the ball outside the off stump consistently. Other teams arent as good. I expect Dhoni to return to his norm when he plays SA at home.

[Anakin]

My only complaint with Dhoni is other than 2 innings he didn't even try to apply himself, went for shots too early in stead of trying to get in.

[head coach]

What were Dhoni's scores on the SL tour (Indian Oil tri series '05)' date=' WI tour, SA tour, ENG tour ??[/quote'] I dont know. But I do know that he has more than 5 not outs to his credit during these series you explained so that means the guy was directly involved in more than 5 wins. So you see his value right no more argument!

[chanakya]

You guys may mock. But I will have the last laugh. Experienced posters will know my track record! Beware mocking my predictions. Mark my words KARTHICK WILL ONE DAY BE INDIAN CAPTAIN!

NOOW I am scared of the future of the Indian Cricket Team :nervous::nervous:

[chanakya]

DHONI is a keeper first and foremost, If he can keep like he is doing at present, there is no need to replace him. A keeper who cathes is more important than someone who scores hundreds and lets people like Ponting, Hussey etc off.

[sandtest]

The worst thing about all this is now Dhoni is CAPTAIN of influencial ODI team and truckloads of sponsors/ad agents have signed him. Dhoni is definately a good player for ODI and T20, but for Test cricket that too in oversease conditions like Australia where batting demands a decent technique, Dhoni's skills are no better than highly mediocre, yet hyped players like Afretard of Pakis. I seen him batting in this series and he put even Afretard on shame. before comparing KKD with Dhoni in test, I can say that KKD has superior techniques than Dhoni for TEST MATCHES......Don't forget that KKD usually opens the innings which may be a big factor in marginally lower average than Dhoni. KKD can improve keeping, not a big deal.

[infiniti]

Performance should be the criteria for anybody to be picked in the side. Anay player is a player first and then captain or vice captain. Forget about the fact that Dhoni is the vice captain, he has failed in his last 7 to 8 innings, the same number of innings for which karthick was dropped !!!!. By brining karthick as an opener, team india has the option of always playing with 5 bowlers. By not dropping somebody because of his so called stature, what message is team india sending to its new players.

[infiniti]

Its not only about his failure to score runs, but also the manner in which he got out. In the sydney test, had he had the common sense to use his bat rather than deliberately padding up on off stump, things might have been different. Even in the last test, a guy supposedly known for big hitting, gets out trying to a single by paddle sweeping !!!!! if you have to go out, then go all out. try hitting the bowler out of the park. In that process if you get out also, its ok. But trying to be too smart is dangerous for your own good.

[Guest Gunner]

Oh hai KT!!!!

[King Tendulkar]

:hysterical::hysterical:

[Ranjha]

Hi

[DomainK]

:haha: I expect a lot of threads to be bumped now.