Hyde Act binding on India, says Nicholas Burns

[gs]

Hyde Act binding on India, says Nicholas Burns

Former American pointsman of the Indo-US nuclear deal Nicholas Burns says the 123 Agreement is "absolutely" consistent with the controversial Hyde Act and that US can terminate the pact if India conducted atomic tests. Burns' latest comments that Hyde Act was binding on India came on the eve of the crucial meeting of the IAEA Board of Governors in Vienna to consider the India-specific nuclear safeguards for approval. Burns, who stepped down in March and was appointed as a special envoy to US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on the deal, also stressed that the US has in place "the right measures to protect" its interests by retaining the right to terminate the agreement. Burns however said during a panel debate at Brookings institutions it was highly unlikely that India will conduct a nuclear test in future. The remarks of the former US pointsman to the deal was immediately lapped up by the CPI-M which said it stood vindicated in opposing the deal. "The utterances of Burns clearly shows that India cannot escape the provisions of the contentious Hyde Act of the US, linking suspension of nuclear fuel supply to future atomic tests by India," CPI politburo member Brinda Karat told reporters in Pune. "When this agreement was negotiated, it was fully including the 123 Agreement consistent with all provisions of the Hyde Act. And the United States would retain, of course, under our law the right to implement every aspect of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954," Burns said in response to a query on corrective measures. "What rights would the United States have under a hypothetical if India did x,y or z? All those rights are in place. We have the right to termination if we want to... if it comes to that. It probably would not," Burns said.

WTF?!? Congress seems to have blatantly misguided the country!! we are sooo screwd if this is true!

[CC1981]

WTF?!? Congress seems to have blatantly misguided the country!! we are sooo screwd if this is true!

I am not so sure. If the Hyde pact is restricted only to the US stopping uranium fuel exports to us, its no biggie. For one, US is by no means the largest producer or exporter of uranium. Australia and Canada will be falling over each other to pick up the new market for raw materials export. And remember, this is an area where US has limited clout over Canada and Australia: both these nations are very heavily resource exporting nations and their resource policy retains a strong independent character. Besides, we are hoping that in near future India will be able to improve the efficiency of Thorium reactors and if that happens, we don't need anybody, coz India has a huge supply of thorium : a quarter of the world's deposits. But if the hyde pact allows the US to sanction a trade embargo on us, then yes, we might be screwed.

[THX_1138]

you know what... if india conducts another atomic test... well then i would support termination of this pact too. so i hope that answers your question.

[sandtest]

you know what... if india conducts another atomic test... well then i would support termination of this pact too. so i hope that answers your question.

This is disgusting!! can you tell me one valid reason why you peaceniks oppose India's legitimate right to make ensure safety of her billion plus population????

[sandtest]

I am not so sure. If the Hyde pact is restricted only to the US stopping uranium fuel exports to us, its no biggie. For one, US is by no means the largest producer or exporter of uranium. Australia and Canada will be falling over each other to pick up the new market for raw materials export.

When you are not sure, you should not make false arguements like this. Note this and repeat it hundred times -- Without USA approval, forget Canada and Autralia (they are just another state of USA anyway, when it comes foreign policy in South Asia), even Russia and African countries will not dare supply Uranium to us. Remember, we couldn't get Uranium for Cyrus reactor in Mumbai, after India did first "Smiling Budha" nuclear tests during 1974 and Russia denied flatly to assist any further since they are also the part of P-5 mafia who want to control the world's nuclear weapons, while doing vertical proliferation among themsleves they preached India not to proliferate, when in fact India has clean record. NPT was ONLY created to RESTRICT INDIA and keeping INDIA in mind. They can cap Iran and Libya, Egypt, Brazil and any country with even slight Nuclear aspiration. They don't need and apartheid treaty like NPT for that.

[sandtest]

Actually, the very purpose of Hyde act is to cap India's strategic weapons programme and paralyse India to develop new technology of fast breeder reactors based on India three stage Thorium cycle, which will effectively end P-5 supremacy and monopoly in nuclear fuel and reactor business. Let us recall the July 18 agreement, which Manmohan and Bush signed in washington with a lot of fanfare among NRI elites in USA. The original July 18 agreement was very good for India and BJP welcomed that. Till then Bush had very honest intention of doing business with India by selling reactors worth 50 billion dollars in next 30 years and thus generating a lot of employment for his country -America. We Indians in India were happy that finally, a president in Bush saw the light and ending India's apartheid in Nuclear technology. But immediately Non-Proleferation Dictators like Daryll Kimball, aided by proven India haters and Pak lovers like Stephen Cohen turned red. They did not chose Bush, instead they went to Dick Cheney and thoroughly mis-guided him how we can cap India's programm under the "justification" of proliferation concerns and thus Hyde act startted taking shape. Bush has nothing to do with Hyde act. The guy even don't know how this got so ugly. It's cunning lobby groups in Congress that inserted clause in Hyde act which will bind Amreekan President to certify each year India's Nuclear programm and take action in case of Nuke test. Hyde act goes one step further when some other lobbies inserted the clause to note position of India with respect to Iran in future US sanctions and actions against Shia nation. This is serious since India now has to tow the line with US and loose it's only strategic depth in middle east vis-a-vis Pakistan. This is why BJP opposed HYDE act. They never opposed nuclear deal...They continue to oppose Hyde act.

[CC1981]

why you peaceniks oppose India's legitimate right to make ensure safety of her billion plus population????

India does not need any more nuke testing to improve on the safety of her billion plus population.

When you are not sure, you should not make false arguements like this.

Learn to either type in proper English or curb your vapid enthusiasm. I made no false argument. I said i am not sure (and neither are YOU on the point i raised), so my argument is based on a conteingency and thus not false.

(they are just another state of USA anyway, when it comes foreign policy in South Asia)

Kindly don't lecture me on the level of politics out here- i live here and i follow the politics here much deeper than you do. Canada as well as Australia doesnt care about ANYONE when it comes to their prime industry and prime source of income: export of natural resources. Canada or Aus doesnt take orders from the US as far as mineral exports go. Clear ?

Remember, we couldn't get Uranium for Cyrus reactor in Mumbai, after India did first "Smiling Budha" nuclear tests during 1974

Canada withdrew from support of India's nuclear technology because India SPECIFICALLY and ILLEGALLY modified the CANDUU reactors it'd aquired from Canada to process enriched uranium. As such, it was very much a justified move from Canada as India had violated the end user agreement.

NPT was ONLY created to RESTRICT INDIA and keeping INDIA in mind.

Nothing more than utter manure and utterly ludicrous thinking. When NPT was floated, India was a non-entity in the nuclear race. It still largely, is a non-entity in the nuclear race.

[CC1981]

Till then Bush had very honest intention of doing business with India

I take it you can read Bush's mind then eh ? cut out such bombastic comments which are utterly ludicrous.

instead they went to original white supremascist-- Dick Cheney

Please substantiate that Dick Chaney is a white supremist, otherwise, please withdraw such libellous comments.

[sandtest]

India does not need any more nuke testing to improve on the safety of her billion plus population.

You have no idea of thermo-nuclear weapons ( fusion weapons) and tests required to validate actual warheads, moreover India's claim of actual yield in Pokhran-2 is itself debatable. You have also no idea of of modern day requirement of MIRV missiles to dodge anti-ballistic defence and miniaturized warheads which can be mounted on a Single missile platform like Agni-3 to ensure an adequate and assured deterrence. You have also no idea that US and P-5 nations conduct regular sub-critical tests and computer simulations to validate their MIRV warheads. You also have no idea that those nations have conducted hundreds of tests and some of them even in open atmosphere to perfect their design of warhead and mate it with re-entry vehicle of missile andf yet they are crying foul in case of India. Do you even know that -- France said STFU to CTBT and continued it's tests till as late as 1995 until they were fully satisfied that their warhead design is perfect and will provide desired yield when mated with missile. Go and do some reading on history of development of missiles like Peacekeeper, Minuteman and Trident of USA, Bulava-Russia, DongFeng-China to understand the complexity involved in designing warheads which can be mounted in the form of multiple warheads in MIRV configuration, ensuring credible deterrence. Without MIRV capable Miniaturized warheads whose design is based on thermo-nuclear fusion, India can't assure a credible deterrence for it's population. We have hardly conducted five successful tests, out of which 3 were pure fission. The fusion test did not succed fully, per some reports, seismic data revealed that it underperformed. However, for the sake of "moral" deterrence Anil Kakodakar et al claimed full yield. In future India might need a few more tests, if DRDO comes up with perfected design of MIRV for Agni-IV or submarine launched Agni, they will insist GOI to provide a fusion warhead which is tested and proven to mount on Agni. GOI should not and will not take a chance and compromise India's credible deterrence in any way ( at least BJP will not). Hyde act directly cripples our deterrence and hence not acceptable.

Learn to either type in proper English or curb your vapid enthusiasm.

You are an idiot. This is not some grammar learning course. Comprehend and learn the information, language is not important here. Anyway, for your info, being a vernacular education background, any sane person will ignore some errors in lanuage, I can safely write in Hindi and promise, you won't get 50% of subject matter, but that's not the topic here.:finger:

[CC1981]

You have no idea of thermo-nuclear weapons ( fusion weapons) and tests required to validate actual warheads, moreover India's claim of actual yield in Pokhran-2 is itself debatable.

Whatever is the yeild of the Pokhran-II tests, they are bombs bigger than the Hiroshima-Nagasaki bomb. Ie, India posesses nukes that can take out an entire city. That is good enough deterrence and i don't see any need to continue testing to try and improve yeild. There is zero actual difference in threatening to vaporise an entire city versus vaporising two cities. I don't see ANY NEED for India to test nuclear weaponry in the near future.

You have also no idea of of modern day requirement of MIRV missiles to dodge anti-ballistic defence and miniaturized warheads which can be mounted on a Single missile platform like Agni-3 to ensure an adequate and assured deterrence.

Had YOU any idea about what you are typing, you'd realize that i didnt say anything about missile testing but nuke testing.

You have also no idea that US and P-5 nations conduct regular sub-critical tests and computer simulations to validate their MIRV warheads.

Then we too can keep doing simulations and sub-critical tests.

In future India might need a few more tests, if DRDO comes up with perfected design of MIRV for Agni-IV or submarine launched Agni, they will insist GOI to provide a fusion warhead which is tested and proven to mount on Agni.

We dont need a fusion bomb to provide nuclear deterrence- fission bomb is far better. As i said, the difference between fission bomb and fusion is that in one entire Lahore goes up in a big puff, in the other, a quarter of punjab goes up in a big puff. But what you dont know, is that a fusion bomb is a very clean bomb: little or no residual radiation left and little or no residual contamination left. IMO, if nukes are to be used for deterrence, the fallout is a big part of the deterrence : not only is the area vaporised, the area is contaminated for millions of years to come and rendered uninhabitable or habitable with serious health risks. IMO, the contamination factor of fission bombs is a bigger deterrence factor than a meaningless step up in super-destructive power via fusion bomb. If you got bombs big enough to annihilate entire cities (which is what India most definitely has), then its deterrence enough- you really think Paks are gonna care much about a random village or two or sialkot when Lahore itself is nuked ? Or do you think the Brits would care much about stratford-upon-avon and dover when entire London is nuked ? Thermonuclear bombs arnt all that they are cracked up to be- think about it for a second!

Hyde act directly cripples our deterrence and hence not acceptable.

It is more than acceptable RIGHT NOW, as your entire scenario is dependent on what might be. India might develop MIRV technology competeteively and then India MIGHT develop a bomb small enough to MIRV it. All those might be/can be/maybes are something i prefer tackling once they turn into CAN-BEs. India's current needs are far more important than preserving some sense of false pride and hedging bets on 'maybes or mightbes'. And if you are going to count on maybes and mightbes, here is one maybe or might be to count on : maybe in 20 yrs time when India finally has enough knowhow to make fusion bombs, America would be too dependent on trade with India and might be forced to look the other way instead of reneging on its deals.

Comprehend and learn the information, language is not important here.

Language is important when you misconstrue what others are saying. You accused me of making a false argument, which it clearly wasn't and thus you should have the guts to accept your error and move on instead of trying to get uppity with me, boy.

I can safely write in Hindi and promise, you won't get 50% of subject matter

Bacchey, my hindi is fairly rusty, i will grant you that- but if you really think i can't follow 50% of your hindi rantings, especially if i refreshed my vocabulary of archaic hindi terms, you clearly underestimate the value/power of ICSE hindi (as second language ) and a 85+ score in both grammar and literature section. If i can ace tests involving Harivanshrai Bachchan, i can understand far more simplistic words that you spout. But one thing i WILL garantee you: if i switched on my Bengali, you'd be left completely clueless. Howzzat for today's chest-thumping on linguistics ?

[sandtest]

I take it you can read Bush's mind then eh ? cut out such bombastic comments which are utterly ludicrous.

Idiot, this is not bombastic, but based on open news and analysis available. Go and read July 18 agreement, it was fair agreement which treated India as an equal partner. Till July agreement, Bush was the one who was taking initiative, calling shots and leading from front to ensure that it gets signed when Manmohan visited washington. July 18 agreement was vary fair and has no such thing as Nuclear test objection, Iran policy support etc. and moreover it treated India as true nuclear weapons state, same as what P-5 nations are!! So learn to give credit where it is due.

Please substantiate that Dick Chaney is a white supremist, otherwise, please withdraw such libellous comments.

Your concern is noted, I have removed the adjective. But note that, I said in heat of arguement and there is a reason behind it. Before July 18, Dick Cheney was nowhere in picture and India was treated on par with other Nuclear weapons states. However, immediately after signing agreement, news started appearing of that Paki lover Stephen Cohen "briefed" Dick Chenney about Indo-US agreement. Add fuel to fire, Non-Proliferation Dictator Daryll Kimball met Dick Chenney and written letters to US congress advising them of an act which can bind President. There was an interview of Kimball on rediff and he is on record saying this. Stephen Cohen written lengthy articles in atlanticist mouthpiece NYtimes denouncing Bush for giving India a deal on equal terms with P-5. It was after that Dick Chenney met Nick Burns and Shyam Saran and for the first time, a congressional act binding on July 18 agreement came in news. Hence, Dick Chenney shares the blame of bending down to pressure created by Non-Proliferation Dictators. Bush was very fair in original agreement.

[CC1981]

but based on open news and analysis available.

So open news and analysis lets you know when one is dealing with you honestly and when one has ulterior motives, eh ? especially when this said person is completely unfamiliar with you ? If that isnt bombastic, then it is as idiotic as it gets. Like i said,cut out idiotic comments about 'bush honestly did this...he honestly thought that before this, before that' etc. Most articles arnt written with guesses about the intent of the subject and when that call IS made, it is made by people of extreme influential positions who are PERSONALLY FAMILIAR with the subject. You satisfy neither criteria, thus, its bombastic.

I have removed the adjective

You have not removed it yet, because you have not edited your post yet. but when you do, thank you.

Hence, Dick Chenney shares the blame of bending down to pressure created by Non-Proliferation Dictators. Bush was very fair in original agreement.

Or maybe Bush himself changed his mind after Cheney gave his opinion ? Or maybe it was Laura bush, over dinner, who mentioned to Dumbya about Cheney's reservations and Bush changed his mind ? How do you know that is not the case ? As i said, leave such meaningless personal slangfest and mudslinging out of the equation, especially when you have no basis for this- i realize that this is your modus operandi because this is the standard fare of indian politics and the polemists who thrive in that fetid environment. but that is the very reason India is often an object of ridicule out in the west- because our politics is dominated by these meaningless pussilanimous vacillations and mudslinging that reduces credibility and turns into a character assasination based on pure innuendos. And with good reason.

[sandtest]

Whatever is the yeild of the Pokhran-II tests, they are bombs bigger than the Hiroshima-Nagasaki bomb. Ie, India posesses nukes that can take out an entire city. That is good enough deterrence and i don't see any need to continue testing to try and improve yeild. There is zero actual difference in threatening to vaporise an entire city versus vaporising two cities. I don't see ANY NEED for India to test nuclear weaponry in the near future.

You won't get it, because your view is jaundiced by 50s era delivery system of Nukes, that's the reason of your moronic comparison of Hiroshima without even knowing what was the delivery system employed during that time. You have really no idea about various anti-aircraft, anti-missile defence mechanisms which has been developed and operational in 21st century and that makes such aircraft based delivery system of Hiroshima era as suicide and practically irrelevant. I won't educate you on this any further. Live in your utopia land of Hiroshima type deterrence and thank god Indian political parties are not oblivious of this fact and openly opposed Hyde act in parliament. Anyone can see the example of American Tomahawks,they even mount a smaller and miniaturized nukes on these cruise missiles. Surprise?...uptill now we thought only Ballistic Missiles can carry Nukes, but if you have smaller, Miniaturized, more efficient Thermo-Nuclear weapons that ensure that you can mount it on a cruise missile like say Sagarika or Brahmos and that would be a sure deterrence since chances of a low flying cruise missile getting intercepted is far less than a high flying BM.

Had YOU any idea about what you are typing, you'd realize that i didnt say anything about missile testing but nuke testing

But YOU don't know anything about DELIVERY SYSTEM and mating of actual radioactive warhead with seekers of missile. That's VERY important IMO. Without credible delivery system the BIG, FAT fission based Nuke weapon is of no use.

Then we too can keep doing simulations and sub-critical tests.

For doing that you need adequate data generated by actual testing of warhead...minimum 10 tests are must.

We dont need a fusion bomb to provide nuclear deterrence- fission bomb is far better.

You are an idiot again. If fission based warhead is better then why developed countries like US, UK and France, Russia fell over each other to develop thermo-nuclear devices?? Why USA slowly but surely replaced all their warheads from fission to fusion??

It is more than acceptable RIGHT NOW, as your entire scenario is dependent on what might be. India might develop MIRV technology competeteively and then India MIGHT develop a bomb small enough to MIRV it.

For you, an armchair sitting in a western country, sipping latte, it is just a matter of maybe-may not be. But for us, billion plus Indians, it is a matter of our very basic right of deterrence. We are not asking anyone to proliferate us, we just want to develop our own Agni based warheads slowly but surely, even if it takes two more decades. Till then, we will not accept any effort to cripple our credible deterrence. Whenever, like France (in 1995), we are sure that we have credible deterrence we will sign NPT and talk all peace, love and nuclear free world. It's not we who started this so we don't want to hear lectures of hot air of Nuke danger and all that.

which it clearly wasn't and thus you should have the guts to accept your error and move on instead of trying to get uppity with me, boy.

Don't get, personal, that's it. If you want a civilized discussion and learn something, then continue without making a personal remark. You have a stinking history of getting personal with many here.

Howzzat for today's chest-thumping on linguistics ?

:hysterical: OMFG, this funny, it is coming from a person who first started the chest thumping about his language prowess in English by pointing some error. Man you are amazing, I hardly chest thump about knowledge of language, I was infact trying to point you that your bravado of English lanuage is not necessary here, since anyone can be well vered in any language and that includes Bengali, Tamil, Hindi or Mandarin etc. etc.. For me, it's "Vidya Vinayen Shobhatey" -- translate -- Knowledge looks better when the person is humble, semejhay Bengaali babu.

[CC1981]

You won't get it, because your view is jaundiced by 50s era delivery system of Nukes, that's the reason of your moronic comparison of Hiroshima without even knowing what was the delivery system employed during that time. You have really no idea about various anti-aircraft, anti-missile defence mechanisms which has been developed and operational in 21st century and that makes such aircraft based delivery system of Hiroshima era as suicide and practically irrelevant.

You idiot, i am talking about yeild size : that is one of the most relevant benchmarks in nuclear bomb universe. And anti-aircraft and anti-missile defence mechanisms using nukes ? where did you pull that out from, star ? your rear end ?

uptill now we thought only Ballistic Missiles can carry Nukes

No, YOU only thought so..don't use WE in this regard.

But YOU don't know anything about DELIVERY SYSTEM and mating of actual radioactive warhead with seekers of missile. That's VERY important IMO. Without credible delivery system the BIG, FAT fission based Nuke weapon is of no use.

And neither do you, so whats with this 'you dont know you dont know' BS you keep spouting ? Test your delivery system as much as you want, idiot. I already said that !!!

minimum 10 tests are must.

Yet another number you just pulled outta your rear end.

If fission based warhead is better then why developed countries like US, UK and France, Russia fell over each other to develop thermo-nuclear devices??

Its called 'my c0ck is bigger than your c0ck' syndrome. You should understand : you are into such meaningless chest-thumping bravado manuevers all the time.

Why USA slowly but surely replaced all their warheads from fission to fusion??

Lifecycle cost. Again, something we arnt worried of yet. And if you think i am an idiot, then challenge my reasoning, star, instead of being a ninny and go around 'why did so n so do this ?'. I already said why fission bomb is better: its powerful enough to destroy a city, small enough to be MIRV-ed and leaves a huge contaminated area behind. Fusion bombs are more powerful, but as i explained, you dont need more power than whats required to vaporize a city. And its clean, meaning 2 yrs after nukage, its back to normal in that area.

But for us, billion plus Indians, it is a matter of our very basic right of deterrence.

No, to a few handful desis like you and the BJP blowhards, its a matter of pride more than reason or convineance. We already have nuclear deterrence in place.

We are not asking anyone to proliferate us, we just want to develop our own Agni based warheads slowly but surely, even if it takes two more decades. Till then, we will not accept any effort to cripple our credible deterrence. Whenever, like France (in 1995), we are sure that we have credible deterrence we will sign NPT and talk all peace, love and nuclear free world. It's not we who started this so we don't want to hear lectures of hot air of Nuke danger and all that.

My point is very simple. The hinduvta blowhards are whining about supposed curtailment of right of testing. But lets look at the FACTS: FACT is, India needs the uranium deal with USA India is NOWHERE close to testing nukes agaiin (no plans for the next 5-6 years), India is NOWHERE close to making a true ICBM, much less a compact one like the ones SSBNs of USN launch. Fact is, India and US trade relations are proliferating like crazy and its supposed to double every 2-2.5 years or something for the next many years. So bottomline is, the blowhards like yourself are whining purely from a pride angle : the possible curtailment of a right to test something in the future that we MAYBE can build and instead, risk losing the immensely necessary deal for NOW. The prudent course of action would be to play along with the Hyde Act and in 10-15 years, if we need to test a nuke really bad, we can be more or less assured on far deeper economic ties with states to bail us out. The states ALWAYS thinks about its money first, everything else second. Suffice to say, if trade between us and the states are in the order of 100s of billions of dollars per year, states would be FAR less inclined to put economic sanctions on us, as it'd hurt them too. I'd much rather go by the immediate necessity and this likely 'maybe' over your hollow pride that fracks over our nation's immediate need based on a supposition for the future.

If you want a civilized discussion and learn something, then continue without making a personal remark. You have a stinking history of getting personal with many here.

If you deserve a personal remark, you will get it. I can give you a civilized discussion, i can give you one you wont ever forget. And i aint a pu$$y like you who will go whining around- and before you ask me to not get personal, let me see a few posts from you answering/debating me without standard abuse like 'idiot' in it first. Notice that i don't whine when the kitchen heats up - i leave the whining for blowhards like yourself, who will use abusive words and then whine like a besahaara bacchi when the favour is returned.

OMFG, this funny, it is coming from a person who first started the chest thumping about his language prowess in English by pointing some error.

I pointed your error because you implied i was making a false argument when i wasn't and that too because YOUR COMPREHENSION sucks, not mine. I pointed out your error in typing English, didnt go around thumping my chest on how my english is better- that is your insecure self talking there. You made an error in English, i corrected you- instead of having the ballz to own up to that and move on, **YOU** turned it into a chest-thumping and how your hindi can own mine (which, if you dare go down that path, you will find, is yet another assumption of yours that won't pan out). So,vatz, grow up and learn how to fess up to one's mistakes instead of going MIA or turning it into a chest-thumping contest like the saffron or green mullahs you love to identify with or hate. PS: Still waiting for your final comments on that Gujrat thread where i destroyed your 'eyewitness vs forensics' idiocy.

[sandtest]

So open news and analysis lets you know when one is dealing with you honestly and when one has ulterior motives, eh ? especially when this said person is completely unfamiliar with you ? If that isnt bombastic, then it is as idiotic as it gets. Like i said,cut out idiotic comments about 'bush honestly did this...he honestly thought that before this, before that' etc. Most articles arnt written with guesses about the intent of the subject and when that call IS made, it is made by people of extreme influential positions who are PERSONALLY FAMILIAR with the subject. You satisfy neither criteria, thus, its bombastic.

See, I don't give a damn about futile discussion regarding whether it's Bush or Chenney or aliens who brought Hyde act. Fact is on July 18 -- an international and need I say, a historic agreement was reached between India and US and a joint statement was issued from gallery of white house which gave synopsis of agreement. In that no such clause as ban on future testing and Iran or future US foreign policy support was mentioned. At least I never came across any such news. Deal was very fair and treated India as an equal partner in Nuclear technology and it's peaceful application. But now since agreement is about to be legitimized we are conned by USA in typical machiavellian way by inserting Hyde act which will overrule July 18. This is unacceptable, since Hyde is an internal US congress law, how India-a soverign country should be obliged to obey such laws. Case closed, India should issue a statement telling US to STFU or we will walk away from deal and continue our research on indigenous fast breeder reactor programme which is in critical stage now. There are various reasons that this deal will harm India more than it's perceived benefits.

[CC1981]

See, I don't give a damn about futile discussion regarding whether it's Bush or Chenney or aliens who brought Hyde act.

If you don't give a damn, then why are you pulling stuff like ' Bush honestly wanted to do this....but white supremist cheney had other ideas under NPT dictators' straight outta your butt ???

how India-a soverign country should be obliged to obey such laws.

The hyde act is binding on the USA, not India. You are being misled by the ill-conceived headline. The hyde act wont be binding to India- it will be binding to the US- meaning any US deal will cover the Hyde act and US will back out of it when/if it deems necessary.

There are various reasons that this deal will harm India more than it's perceived benefits.

The benifits of this deal is far greater than any perceived harm- atleast for the immediate and foreseeable future. India NEEDS to reduce its oil dependency and its reaching emergency proportions. No nuke deal = Indian economic growth is going to be stunted and may even stagnate as our economy chokes under its own thirst for power. DOn't for a MINUTE think that we can solve this with more oil - we are much below in the pecking order for oil trades : behind most of west Europe, USA, China,Japan, etc. not to mention, the domestic markets of various producing nations. So the bottomline is simple : swallow your hollow pride and sign the dotted line on the nuke deal (including Hyde act) or give up any hope of India being one of the world leaders as it chokes under its own insane 'breeding like rats' population pressure and power starvation.

[sandtest]

You idiot, i am talking about yeild size : that is one of the most relevant benchmarks in nuclear bomb universe. And anti-aircraft and anti-missile defence mechanisms using nukes ? where did you pull that out from, star ? your rear end ?

Moron, before yield size, I am talking about actual size of WARHEAD and how to deliver it, when you in your supreme ignorance tried to pass your hotair about Hiroshima yield as some knowledge. Just look at the size of these two 50s era bombs, "Little Boy" and "Fat Man" which were used by USA on Hiroshima and Nagasaki -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Man Now such pure fission based weapons are VERY BIG in size and can only be delivered through a fighter bomber like B-52 or a jet like Su-30 MKI(in case of India). If you have even little knowledge of anti-aricraft counter measures in 21st century you will know that an aircraft cannot be a reliable source to strike deep in enemy territory. It has high probability of getting intercepted and destroyed thereby loosing your deterrence posture. A missile preferably, a ballistic missile with more than one warhead in MIRV configuration is needed to do this task. Now what is MIRV? An MIRV is an Multiiple Independently Targettable Re-entry vehicle. That is on a single missile you are mounting more than one warhead and each warhead is mounted on it's own associated re-entry vehicle, which will seperate during entry into earths atmosphere. Thus by one single missile yoy are sending multiple warhead looking objects (some of the them are decoys) so that if one gets intercepted and destroyed still you have others available to ensure deterrence is achieved. An enemy in 21st century like commie China and their stooges Paki can only be deterred if they know that India posseses MIRV capability and hence can for sure strike deep, so they will never strike us first to destroy our nuke arsenal for the fear of assured retaliation. Problem with MIRV is that this system requires smaller warheads yet that will give same or higher yield as fission to make it fit on a single missile without compromising on yield. Now smaller warhead is possible only when, you master the design of Fusion based thermo-nuclear weapons. This is possible only when India has sufficient data through tests to make a thermo-nuclear warhead which can be mounted on Agni. That is why India's original concern of Hyde act capping it's capability to develop credible deterrence holds true hear.

Its called 'my c0ck is bigger than your c0ck' syndrome. You should understand : you are into such meaningless chest-thumping bravado manuevers all the time.

Another idiotic comment. man, you think western countries are juvenile like you who will engage in my dick bigger than your dick like childis excercize. You really have no idea. Dude, fact that after Hiroshima, USA realized FIRST that it would dangerous to use Aircraft as Nuke delivery platform and missile will be the best option. That is wahy they realized need of miniaturized, equally or more powerful warhead and thus Thermo-Nuclear weapon of fusion based took shape. It's a different matter that development of thermo-nuclear weapons opened a new can of worms and led to arms race in cold war time between Russia and USA since it is possible to achieve an yield from 30-100Kt till theoretically infinite yield, since fusion means you are actaully producing a mini "Sun" of solar system,only difference you can regulate it's capacity. But need of Fusion based warhead was felt neverthless immediately after Hiroshima.

[CC1981]

Now such pure fission based weapons are VERY BIG in size and can only be delivered through a fighter bomber like B-52 or a jet like Su-30 MKI(in case of India).

False. Bomb-making has come a long way and you are insansely undereducated in this field if you think fission based weapons are still very big in size.

Now smaller warhead is possible only when, you master the design of Fusion based thermo-nuclear weapons

Again, utterly false.

man, you think western countries are juvenile like you who will engage in my dick bigger than your dick like chuildish excercize.

Uhh...yeah. What do you think the military posturing of the cold war was about ? Of all things, i cannot believe you will have the temerity to try and educate me on the western psyche. I would've thought that you'd have atleast that much humility to defer opinion on that topic to someone who has vast experience with the west as opposed to yourself.

Now what is MIRV?

Hey star, you dont have to educate me on what is an MIRV. Before you ejaculate about our need to test more bombs to MIRV it on missiles, it'd make more sense to have a MIRV platform ready and an actual ICBM or state of the art cruise-capable MIRv missile ready. India has neither ready. Therefore, nuke testing before these extremely difficult technologies are mastered, is akin to putting the cart before the horse.

[sandtest]

If you don't give a damn, then why are you pulling stuff like ' Bush honestly wanted to do this....

Simply, because Bush initiated July 18 agreement was very fair and treated India on par with a nuclear weapons state. So our humble Dharma says-- give credit where it is due. If it was not for Bush, no President in USA could have thought of pulling such a historic agreement and pursuing with it. As they say -- "Only Nixon can go to China"....I will say "Only Bush can help achieve Nuclear nirvana of India", provided he is not mis-guided by non-proliferation dictators and Pak agents like Stephen Cohen etc.

The hyde act is binding on the USA, not India. You are being misled by the ill-conceived headline. The hyde act wont be binding to India- it will be binding to the US- meaning any US deal will cover the Hyde act and US will back out of it when/if it deems necessary.

That is why I called it machiavellian. And we know USA is expert in giving you little and yet making you feel as if you got everything. Media headlines are not ill-conceiving. By far they are all pro-deal and writing stuffs as if this is the only best thing happened to India after cold Lassi. Problem with your above understanding that Hyde act is binding on USA hence will not affect India is a double edged sword, the risk of which is as serious as loosing your future weapons programme. Let's say a scenario -- Tommorrow, China conducts a miniaturized nuclear weapons test, the yield of which is very low, with minimum radiation, which can be used on border areas where India's military assets are located, without actually affecting main Indian cities, thus avoiding internation condemnation. Now China being a P-5 member is exempted from ban on tests like other P-5 elites. But suppose India develops same miniaturized nuke in next 5-6 years and tests it, American Congress will invoke Hyde and ask to ban exposrt of Uranium and any reactor technology. Following American example, I can guarantee Canada and autralia will also stop Uranium supply and thus our billions of investment in reactor will become white elephant. There is 100% surety of Australia and Canada following USA way of stopping Uranium in case of tests. Australia has already made a noise -- read past statements of Mr. Rudd that they are sceptical of supplying India Uranium since they only give it to NPT signatory. But owing to US pressure they obliged to support India in NSG.

[THX_1138]

This is disgusting!! can you tell me one valid reason why you peaceniks oppose India's legitimate right to make ensure safety of her billion plus population????

yeah... we dont have a threat to national security that requires the use of nuclear weapons.