India MUST adopt China like action if she wants to hold on Kashmir

[sandtest]

I read the article of thinkers like Vir Sanghavi and followed news events leading upto hositing of Paki flag, coverage of "freedom" in the media and not to mention ZERO talk of ANY remotest possibility of Kashmiri Pandits ever making to get back their lost homes, land, forget land of Amarnath Pilgrims for a moment. But due to some degree of PC-ness or ignorance even Vir Sanghavi like folks completely forgot one fundamental arguement when talking about kashmiri freedom -- It is not just Kashmir -- wherever ISLAM gains a "CRITICAL MASS" it tends to secede from the state. Islamic ideology is a "state within state". And this is not just the problem of India. Many countries in the world are suffering from it. Let's look at our eastern bigger neighbor. As much as I hate following Chincommies footsteps, but here I have given up. Let's look at China and it's Muslims area -- China has Muslim areas in Xinxiang province, Uighur, Turkestan seperatist islamic movements are a force to reckon with, BUT HOW MUCH OF WORLD POPULATION KNOWS WHAT's HAPPENING THERE. Take a leaf from China and do following -- (1) Same like China does in Muslim dominated areas, India should deploy additional Army in Kashmir for the time being and TOTAL BLACK OUT of MEDIA --- China has done this SUCCESSFULLY. No matter if morality preachers in west and their media poodles in India cry foul, tell them STFU. It is our internal affair and we will handle it same way like China does it. A declaration of military rule and any Islamic dugga making trouble in valley must be sent to his 72 houris. (2) Same like China, India should ask UN to shutdown it's office in Indian Kashmir. What's the use of it when they are used as a stage to hurt Indian interests. (3) Same like China, India should make Kashmir open for all Indians (that will require scrapping article 370 of Indian constitution-- a legacy of ch*utiyapha from Congress). Look at China, they have mass migrated ethnic Han Chinese (who are nationalists and loyal to China ONLY) from mainland and thus have succeded to change demography at some rate in areas like Tibet and Xinxiang which have strong separatist movements. Han Chinese are offerred monetary incentives who migrate to Xinxiang and Tibet....these Hans migrate there and even open Chinese massage parlours/prostitutions to corrupt the religiosity of those areas. I am not advocating such extreme measures because we are not Communazis yet....but at least for Gandhis sake Congress must scrap article 370 now and make kashmir just another part of India where any Indian can purchse land.At least I will invest some of my hard earned money in purchasing land there for countries sake. This will help in neautralizing the demography change which occurred due to killing and expulsion of Kashmiri Pundits from valley. (4) A gradual industrialization in the area by asking leading companies in India to invest there with monetary/tax exemption benefit. These companies must get full military protection initially at same level as "Green area" in the heart of Baghadad gets from US military. If these measures are too hard to implement due to Indian leadres inherent attitude of dhimminess and leftist brainwashed self-apology towards Muslims, then there is NO reason to hold kashmir and spend Crores of Indian exchaquers money on Islamic radicals who will burn Indian flag at the drop of hat. Thinking Unthinkable of giving away Kashmir will become reality if we don't follow China NOW.

[DomainK]

To a large extent, we have ourselves to blame for having allowed the situation to escalate to this extent. And unfortunately, we are still letting it get worse. There are strings to be pulled, but ever since 1947 indivudual political interest has been considered bigger than national interest. Our politicians have one simple policy: Do not let an issue get resolved, keep it open, allow controversies and gain from it. Kashmir has been a never ending treasure for politicians on both sides and they have been using the Islamic fanatics for their purpose. This issue is not going to be solved anytime soon because those who are in a position to do that do not want a solution.

[Guest dada_rocks]

At least abolition of that legislation which provides them special staus is must.. Then stop giving them ungodly amount of grant.. What has Bihar done to India to get step motherly treatment while these ingrates keep receiving broibes in fomr of grant.. Open the border for business and stop the grant

[Lurker]

India should first kick these Hindutvawaadis in the nuts before doing anything else. It is so strange to see the bhagwa brigade harp on "Nationalism"(read Hinduism) but when the moment comes to take action instead of looking within, they look without. So anytime there is a crisis this is what comes out of their mouth: a) India should do exactly what China is doing. b) India should learn from United States and watch its interest. c) India should do an Israel. Are we so impotent a country that we always have to look outside for an inspiration??

[Guest dada_rocks]

India should first kick these Hindutvawaadis in the nuts before doing anything else. It is so strange to see the bhagwa brigade harp on "Nationalism"(read Hinduism) but when the moment comes to take action instead of looking within, they look without. So anytime there is a crisis this is what comes out of their mouth: a) India should do exactly what China is doing. b) India should learn from United States and watch its interest. c) India should do an Israel. Are we so impotent a country that we always have to look outside for an inspiration??

Sadly yes, since 47 other than impotency nothing much has been on display.. Moreover why hijack the debate by going bonkers over where from theparticular idea came.. let us discuss the meriot/demerit of the idea..

[CC1981]

So when the brits did 'what the chinese did', we all got oh-so-sanctimonious about the whole deal....but now, typical to the moral depravity and despotism of hinduvtas, they advocate the same solution that imperialist, absolutist dictatorial governments took. Nomatter how you look at it, if Kashmiris overwhelmingly deciede for indepdendence or secession from India, nomatter WHAT you do, they will eventually seperate. Look at Ireland or east timor- they didnt want to part of the 'nation' that they got included under and whether its 50 years or 500 years of struggle, they succeeded. When men,women and children are marching against central control, the end is inevitable, even if far off. NOTHING you can do will change that, save for showing to these people that staying with India would be better deal for them financially, security-wise and travel-relations wise. The nutters who previously said 'open fire on them' are nothing more than despicable dictators who put a few beegha zameen over that of the lives of the people. Bhaar me jaye your precious bhoomi- bhaar me jaaye ganga,jamuna,kanchenjunga or godavari- India is the PEOPLE- not the land, so long as my people are there, India is there- doesnt matter if they are in America, india or Sakhalin. And if hinduvaadi zealots do take genocidal action against demonstrators, there will be millions more secularists who will rise up and smite these despicable religious nutters down. In a way, i am enjoying this - while the saffron mullahs and green mullahs are fighting their ideological penis-fights with the lives of people, the majority is slowly realizing how stupid your concepts of God are, how stupid it is to fight in the name of God or culture or 'samskrata' or history and how the hindu ideals and philosophies are just as flawed in their own way as Islamic ones. Keep churning the pot, because most of us are getting fed up with this god-business which is essentially breeding hatred, scamming people for money and giving a childish view of the world. Keep it up, because when we've had enough, nothing of this sick obsession of religion will remain - from your holy amarnath to kashi, dakhineshwar,bodh gaya, jama masjid or nakhoda- all will be a smoldering pile of ruins one day. And that day India will be truely free- free from the despotism of vedic hinduvtas as well as the koranic mullahs, both who's philosophies suck ballz.

[CC1981]

So where are we going to evacuate next (until lord Kalki arrives) ..... Antartica , Mars ?

India = 3 million sq. kms + change. World = 144 million sq. kms + change. if thou wanted to find room, thou canst fail. Anyways, as usual, you take the wrong context of my post. My point is simple - india is not the land, it is the people who make up india. people are more precious than land is and if an entire community wanted to seprate, there is nothing you can do to stop them, save slaughtering them and enslaving them. Most of us Indians would rather see kashmir break away than slaughter the kashmiris or enslave them. And IMO, we are FAR FAR better off looking to the east than looking west. Burma, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, etc. all have deep indic cultural influences, are lands of great fertility, lush forests and ample mineral resources. Don't be so close-minded about the concept of what a nation is - as i said, national borders have always fluxed throughout history for every nation and it will keep doing so. By letting those who don't want to stay, seperate, you are also opening the door for those who wanted to join to become part of us. Kashmir is irrelevant largely ( if push comes to shove, we give up kashmir valley, but keep ladakh and jammu) and i'd rather spend the billions that are currently wasted in Kashmir on Burma - their population is quite India-friendly, their values and culture are FAR similar to our own than the Kashmiris and i'd much rather be laying the groundwork in burma for a possible future union or special relationship, over wasting money on those who dont wanna stay. Samjhey janab ?

[CC1981]

Righto. so you are talking about Room for 800+ Million .

yeah. Siberia would be a good destination or Canada. Your precious 'maatrabhoomi' is toast anyways - sea level is already eating into vast areas of bengal coastline, godavari delta etc. Your precious gangotri and jamnotri are diminishing and will be gone in 60-100 years. With Ganga-Jamna turned into a seasonal river, coastal areas of bengal, gujrat, tamilnad, AP etc. eaten up, desertification continuing etc. how glorious do you see the future of the subcontinent, star ? meanwhile, Canada is thawing- so is Siberia. Between the two of them, approximately 20 million sq kms ( nearly 7 Indias) awaits human migration. IMO i'd be seriously looking into that angle, because regardless of what YOU or I have to say, global warming is here, it is continuing and in a couple of 100 years, your precious india will look more like arabia.

[seedhi]

The first thing to do is to scrap the abomination of article 370. Soon Kashmir will be flooded with migrants from all parts of the country, and the whole issue will die down with complete integration with India. We may not even need the Chinese style brutality to accomplish our goal. Before Indians are forced to migrate to other parts of the world, lets first throw open our own land i.e. Kashmir for the people of India.

[CC1981]

the Kanucks and Roosi's will be waiting with a haar to welcome the 800+ Million Indians right ?

Dunno about the roosis, but the kanucks haev been welcoming us with a haar for a while now. Either which way, are you contesting the fact that India the land is dying and in just a few generations, will be unlivable for 1 billion+ anyways ? you havnt answered my point- what will your so-called 800 million + will do when Ganga-Jamuna, Son,Kashi etc. run dry ? About 50% of our population - thats 500 million+ - are slated to be displaced due to global warming in the next 100 years or so anyways.. When the land itself is dying,there is only one logical choice thing to do : move on. If you'd read some of Buddha's teachings, you'd know that NOTHING is permanent- not a thing,not you, your land, your dharma or your Gods. Right now, its your land that is dying - there aint NOTHING you can do to prevent india from turning into an arabia landscape-wise. Time to realize that, stop fighting about stoopid religion and dharma and move on. And what is your solution if an entire community doesnt want to be part of your nation ? killing, genocide and expulsion ? sorry boss, that is more in line with the fanatical absolutist dictatorial viewpoint of Islam than hinduism and you/DR/Sandy etc. only keep proving my point over and over again that you guys arnt true hindus- you are hindus who think like muslim nutters and thus advocate similar nutter-like responses. Which is why none of you had the gumption to SHOW ME how firing upon them isnt the same as Jallianwallah Bagh massacre and have failed to reprimand your fellow hinduvta nutters for openly calling for the death of innocent women,children and men.

[CC1981]

Try again without the abuse/insults/name calling and the usual nonsense .... plain vanilla does it just fine ....

Vatz is an insult ? No vatz....vatz is simply to educate you and denote your status in relation to me when i am schooling you. clear, vatz ? I am not going to keep it plain vanilla just because your sensibilities are hurt, vatz. I havnt used a word thats abusive, champ. Stick to the rules and you shall be fine...create your usual nonsense and you will be running away for yet another 'sabbatical'. Samjhey, vatz ?

[CC1981]

the haar is now only for the well educated/heeled or suitably heeled that wont be a burden on the National Treasury/ Resources ... they aint even going to sniff at us

And in India too, if you arnt well educated, you are scrood...nothing diferent.

Data/Links etc Please ?

Look it up yourself, champ. And i am not going to provide any data until you learn straight-vaakya. Answer the question : ARE YOU challenging my point- yes or no ? If yes, i will bury you with data, if no, i am not gonna bother- so answer, vatz. For now, i will give you only this lil tidbit : http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Himalayan_Glaciers_Could_Be_Gone_In_50_Years_999.html 50 years to Gangotri's disappearance...i'll be generous and say 100 years...then what, vatz ? No more Ganga for hindoos to pollute with their wastes...then what ? THe one you think is God said 'yada yada hith dharmasya', not 'yada yada hith janmabhoomi', vatz.

[CC1981]

Lets try this one more time CC .... lets see some plain vanilla post as you had been doing before in the thread till you got stuck.

Not going to play by your rules, vatz. Show me where calling you a vatz is an insult. Your hukoomatgiri wont work with me, vatz. Take your time- i have plenty of it today. You can delete faster than i can copy-paste, vatz ?really now ? :haha::haha: SHOW me which words of mine caused you offence, vatz. Lets see a matured comlpaint insetad of mullah-giri random deletions...you arnt a mod here anyways, so what are you doing abusing powers ?

[Desi Cartman]

here is a simple solution for Kashmir problem. STOP ALL GRANTS.. Let them work , pay taxes and get facilities just like the rest of the country. They have no other way to survive but to work and pay taxes. How weird is it that national flag , national anthem , Govt , Army etc are not welcome but MONEY is always welcome. Also, why cant these pro-pak kashmiris move to the so called Azad kashmir just like KP migrated ?

[sandtest]

let us ignore the obssession about any talk of Indian interests as Hindutvawaadi saying this hence must be evil etc. etc. Try to look why I have given China example-- China has a proven troubled area of Muslim dominated population in Xinxiang province -- lets' see with calm and careful thinking how China is integrating it's land with mainland which otherwise will be lost due to Muslims forming a "Critical Mass" in that area which is otherwise sufficient to be ruled under shariah, waving Islamic green flag in place of Chinese red flag --- Firstly, China have done a COMPLETE BLACK OUT of any media from that area except CPC controlled Xinhua news agency. Now in India it is opposite....we have all sorts of media and their hidden foreign players, heck even Paki media representatives, all playing their own ways which suits their respective media owners agenda. Add to that presence of UN puts a serious retsrain on our army to take action against traitors like Geelani who will chest thump about their wannabe pakiness to please their paki fund providers. If a large, free, more educated, more forward, more developed and highly democratic country like United States of America can have prisons in Guatanamo Bay to keep all those Amreeka haters, wannabe Jeehadis and 72 dreamers over there. Amreeka has Gitmo so that they can avoid the nuisance of local domestic PCness in legal system and treat the 72 houri aspirants with a language they understand well and if possible prepare them to finally meet their beloved 72s. So why not India can have their own version of Gitmo in say Andaman Nicobar Islands-- which is controlled by Indian navy. Why we can't send wannabe Pakis like Geelani in such Gitmos aka Andaman-Nicobar and tell the world that only Allah knows where Geelani disappeared, must be possible that some Jinn appeared and took him away to fix an appointment with 72s. Today, countries like Amreeka and China are getting more and more solid and safe in their domestic defence as well as international presence, while we are still stuck with the age old Dharmic morality of Ahimasa (non-violence). Look my dear Indians, as I have said before, There is No Use of preaching vegetarianism to a Wolf who is ona different pursuation. Wake up, realize this Mahavakya of -- Dharmo Rakshati Rakshitaah -- Protect your Dharma and Dharma will protect You. We have already lost Dharmic Kashmiri Pandits from valley...there is no guarantee that they will ever return since surrounded by bloody Islamic wannabe Paki wolves in the valley, their life will be like a deer caught between a gang of wolves. There is also NO guarnatee that tomorrow another population in some more district in India demands seperate Shariah and government for them. It's a tough decision but we have to make the choice. Let's start by scrapping article 370 first. We have all justification to do it in our own way -- we can give example of China and USA and ask the world to STFU, while we fix those Hurrirats and wannabe pakis in valley.

[Guest dada_rocks]

here is a simple solution for Kashmir problem. STOP ALL GRANTS.. Let them work , pay taxes and get facilities just like the rest of the country. They have no other way to survive but to work and pay taxes. How weird is it that national flag , national anthem , Govt , Army etc are not welcome but MONEY is always welcome. Also, why cant these pro-pak kashmiris move to the so called Azad kashmir just like KP migrated ?

Nailed it:haha: Best soln would have bene dropping that special status legislation.. I guess that will take some serious cajones so here is my wish list.. Open the border for trade.. BTW all this bravado of we will take out fruit to Muzafarbad aside Manmohan Singh has called their bluff on one issue here.. HE has agreed to open the border for trade but Pakistan is non-commital.. What will they do with all these fruits in muzaffarbad as if they have not their own apple growers to deal with..:hysterical: Loving it Next is to drop this ungodly sum of grant.. While us Biharis are thinking about eating rodents these ingrates get so much grant thatinflation is yet to reach valley.. 5-6Rs per kg rice they enjoy.. how sick GOI can be.. do they want Biharis to start BS like kashmiris or what..... Jab se sala main wo 1:10 grant ratio between Bihar: kashmir ka padha hun mera khun khoul raha hai

[Lurker]

Sadly yes, since 47 other than impotency nothing much has been on display..

That is a more important point than this whole "Lets do a China" rhetoric. I would be very much interested in pursuing that argument. I see this post has snowballed into a slugfest already so probably a good idea to start a new thread to discuss this DR. Can you do that Anil saab?

[Guest dada_rocks]

U get fixated with similes and other addendum man.. See on public forums you will have to contend with some redundant slugfest can't have control like our drawing rooms..Despite all the rhetoric I see all the right points has been raised..

[sandtest]

Let's ignore slugfest and see the points instead, Islamists in Kashmir have given us a few blows and thinkers like Vir Sanghavi are cowed down and want to throw the towel. This is the crux of the problem. We Hindus are too soft and non-violent dharmic in our approach while dealing with Islamists of valley. Any violent opposition and we cave in. This actually goes on to prove the claim of past Pakistani generals like Ayub Khan who once said that "A few cuts to India at right time and place and vegetarian Al Hind will cave in". By cowing down to Islamists we are actually making pakis and their wannabes in Kashmir like Geelani stronger. It is not the matter of Hindutva or similiar drivels used as a cover by dhimmi media of India, it is matter of frickin existence of kashmiri Pandits and their sacred land from which they have been driven out. Violence started as a result of Amarnath Shrine Board just planning to provide pilgrims a small negligible portion of land so that they can have better facility and shelter in transit. How well radical Ummah of Kashmir has turned it into a so called a final struggle for "freedom" receiving total impunity from our media, and we have Indic writers caving in to this. Are we that weak as a nation?

[Desi Cartman]

Nailed it:haha: Best soln would have bene dropping that special status legislation.. I guess that will take some serious cajones so here is my wish list.. Open the border for trade.. BTW all this bravado of we will take out fruit to Muzafarbad aside Manmohan Singh has called their bluff on one issue here.. HE has agreed to open the border for trade but Pakistan is non-commital.. What will they do with all these fruits in muzaffarbad as if they have not their own apple growers to deal with..:hysterical: Loving it Next is to drop this ungodly sum of grant.. While us Biharis are thinking about eating rodents these ingrates get so much grant thatinflation is yet to reach valley.. 5-6Rs per kg rice they enjoy.. how sick GOI can be.. do they want Biharis to start BS like kashmiris or what..... Jab se sala main wo 1:10 grant ratio between Bihar: kashmir ka padha hun mera khun khoul raha hai

did this happen for real & if so then why didnt it make headlines ? Its sad that these bastards are shouting Pakistan Jindabad while our army men are patrolling around for the safety. I would hate to be in a situation in India when some Indians around me are chanting Pak Jindabad.