Buying a flat in Mumbai - TOI's attempt to falisfy Shabana

[Guest Hiten.]

Actor Shabana Azmi has sparked off a huge controversy by alleging that Muslims cannot buy flats in Mumbai and that the community was discriminated against. TOI decided to do a reality check. Its reporters posed as Muslim flat-buyers-Mohammed Hanif and Abdul Rashid-and called up several builders' offices and real estate agents at random, inquiring about the availability of flats. The results were by and large contrary to what Azmi alleged. Here's what we did: We dialled K Raheja builder (26005269) and inquired about his project on Link Road, behind D Mart, in Malad (West). An executive said booking was open and possession would be available by Diwali. Asked if they had any objection to selling flats to Muslims he replied: "Absolutely no problem sir. We don't bother about the religion of buyers. Anyone willing to pay our price is welcome.'' RNA builders (28975659) have a project at NG Park on Shiv Vallabh Road, Rawalpada, Borivli (West). A staffer said an 850 sq ft (built-up area) flat can be had at Rs 4,800 per sq ft. He categorically stated that being a Muslim did not matter to his company. "You can come anytime to have a look at the flats,'' he added cheerfully. A staffer at Kalpataru Builders (28842600) said two-and-a-half BHK flats can be booked at their project in Kandivli (E) and possession will be given in May 2009. He reassured that religion was no consideration for the sale. "We have no issue selling flats to Muslims,'' he emphasised. At Nahar Builders' office (28470201) an assistant identified himself as Sureshbhai and initiated a smooth sales talk about their project at Chandivli Farm Road near Powai. He said flats measuring 1040 sq ft were available for at Rs 10,000 per sq ft. He was surprised when we asked if he had any reservations about selling a flat to a Muslim. "Why there should be any problem?'' he asked innocently. "You are most welcome,'' he added for good measure. Real estate agent Sushil Khemchand (9820800728), when contacted, said a posh flat was available on outright purchase for Rs 2.5 crore off Turner Road in Bandra (West). Measuring around 1100 sq feet, this flat-situated in an eight-year-old building-was available to people from all religions, he stated. He assured that that the housing society would have no objection to Muslims staying there. Estate agent Rajubhai Dayalani (9322571471) has a few flats for sale at Mayuresh Shristi, L B S Marg, in Bhandup (West). He said it was available for anywhere between Rs 44 lakh and Rs 56 lakh. Rajubhai said the flats were open for people from all communities and there was no discrimination. "Only the price mattered. Please come on Sunday to have a look,'' he said enthusiastically. Lokhandwala Construction (32933197) project near Worli Naka is ready for possession, and falls under the Slum Rehabilitation Scheme. Shailesh Bhai, who is promoting the project, told TOI that there was no problem being a Muslim and one could easily purchase an apartment here. The builder, Moiz Lokhandwala, was a Muslim who did not care about the religion of the buyers. Bhoomi builders (28617227) have a project at Bhoomi Valley, near Thakur Public School, in Kandivli. They too have no objections to Muslims buying properties in their projects. A few others, however, had some reservations . Windsor builders (21714617) in Thane have a project, whose possession date is December 2008. When asked whether a Muslim can buy property there, a staffer replied: "Sir, I am confused. I am not sure. I will have to check with my boss.'' Kabra Builders (28783818) have a project at Vidya Niketan Marg, off M G Road in Goregaon (West). It is a redevelopment project and will have 2 BHK flats for possession by November 2008. Each flat measures 925 sq ft built-up area and will have proper amenities. However, Deepakbhai, who spoke to us, said that he was not sure about Muslims being accommodated here. "As it is a redeveloped property, I will have to take a no-objection from the society,'' he said and promised to get back to us soon.

[Desi Cartman]

A few others, however, had some reservations . Windsor builders (21714617) in Thane have a project, whose possession date is December 2008. When asked whether a Muslim can buy property there, a staffer replied: "Sir, I am confused. I am not sure. I will have to check with my boss.'' Kabra Builders (28783818) have a project at Vidya Niketan Marg, off M G Road in Goregaon (West). It is a redevelopment project and will have 2 BHK flats for possession by November 2008. Each flat measures 925 sq ft built-up area and will have proper amenities. However, Deepakbhai, who spoke to us, said that he was not sure about Muslims being accommodated here. "As it is a redeveloped property, I will have to take a no-objection from the society,'' he said and promised to get back to us soon.

from what I read even these didnt have any reservations they wanted to ask their bosses. There are some societies which are only for a particular group like Bankers, Jains etc.

[Guest dada_rocks]

So it's settled then great psec Shabana Azmi was vomitting crap as usual ..

[THX_1138]

So it's settled then great psec Shabana Azmi was vomitting crap as usual ..

again, that is not an insult. an insult would be along the lines of "you dimwit *****"

[Lurker]

RNA builders (28975659) have a project at NG Park on Shiv Vallabh Road, Rawalpada, Borivli (West). A staffer said an 850 sq ft (built-up area) flat can be had at Rs 4,800 per sq ft. He categorically stated that being a Muslim did not matter to his company. "You can come anytime to have a look at the flats,'' he added cheerfully. A staffer at Kalpataru Builders (28842600) said two-and-a-half BHK flats can be booked at their project in Kandivli (E) and possession will be given in May 2009. He reassured that religion was no consideration for the sale. "We have no issue selling flats to Muslims,'' he emphasised. At Nahar Builders' office (28470201) an assistant identified himself as Sureshbhai and initiated a smooth sales talk about their project at Chandivli Farm Road near Powai. He said flats measuring 1040 sq ft were available for at Rs 10,000 per sq ft. He was surprised when we asked if he had any reservations about selling a flat to a Muslim. "Why there should be any problem?'' he asked innocently. "You are most welcome,'' he added for good measure.

That would equate to 40 lakhs for 1 Bedroom flat in Borivali, a good 50 km from Bombay South! The latter would mean a 2 bedroom flat for 1 crore at Powai! Fantastic to see properties being sold in India at a price that is affordable to all Indians, and that Indian(people and media) are focussing at the right issue here.

[sandtest]

That would equate to 40 lakhs for 1 Bedroom flat in Borivali, a good 50 km from Bombay South! The latter would mean a 2 bedroom flat for 1 crore at Powai!

Unfortunately that is true. Property prices in Mumbai are beyond reach of Middle class. Only established businessmen, new breed of IT-professionals, NRIs etc. can think of buying a good flat in subaurban. Thanks to present Congressi governments economic policies, we now have the highest interest rates for loan so that makes it more difficult for midle class heathens since most of middle class folks rely on loan.

and that Indian(people and media) are focussing at the right issue here.

Yes, they are focussing at the right issue. Because Shabana is indulging into divisive politics of pre-partition era Pakis and she needed to be refuted with FACTS. And I am glad that Toilet paper of India (TOI) did a good job for a change. In that previous thread , I already said, much before TOI that Shabana is throwing boolsheet, by once again falsely portraying Mulims as "Victims"--the age old game of Ummah whenever they think they are in minority. Agreed their are certain societies of Jains, Kayasthaprabhu Brahmins etc. who politely refuse Muslims because of vegetarian culture, But there are rest of Mumbai and it's huge property market where ANYONE can buy a flat who has MONEY -- yes even Dawoods criminals too. Anyway, the builders name which TOI survey has given reads names like RNA, K. Raheja, Kalpataru, Nahar etc..these are very reputed builders and their constructed property is costly for ANY middle class be it a Muslim, Christian, Hindu or Jain to afford.

[Lurker]

Yes, they are focussing at the right issue. Because Shabana is indulging into divisive politics of pre-partition era Pakis and she needed to be refuted with FACTS. And I am glad that Toilet paper of India (TOI) did a good job for a change.

Not really. Based on my year plus experience at ICF, there are probably 3 people who discuss the rising property of India mostly - me, you and DR. Others do participate from time to time but the core is this 3 men. Otherwise the threads receives little participation. On the other hand out comes Shabana Azami's statements and everyone's Nationalistic genes swings into action!! I would be interested if you could show me some debates that has happened on this core issue, and prove that Indians, and media, are indeed focussing on this big hole that we are putting our nation into. xxx

[sandtest]

Not really. Based on my year plus experience at ICF, there are probably 3 people who discuss the rising property of India mostly - me, you and DR. Others do participate from time to time but the core is this 3 men. Otherwise the threads receives little participation. On the other hand out comes Shabana Azami's statements and everyone's Nationalistic genes swings into action!! I would be interested if you could show me some debates that has happened on this core issue, and prove that Indians, and media, are indeed focussing on this big hole that we are putting our nation into. xxx

There are two totally seperate issues and both are EQUALLY important if not less. (1) Firstly the rising property price in Indian metros -- I whole heartedly agree with you here, I am myself a 'bhukthbhogee" of high property price. (2) The OP which is not started with intention to discuss financial aspects, rather Shabana Azmi's brazen two faced lie. Actually, your concern for property price in Shabana Azmi thread can be seen as an attempt to protect your beloved poet Javed Akhtar's biwi from justified criticism??:cantstop::cantstop::--D:nervous:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Unfrotunately we are stuck in the pit as far as price is concerned.. Despite measures by RBI inflation has been going up since quite a while.. Only salvation is DDS flats.. I am nto sure whether they are any good though.. recently saw a masala piece on ibnlive showing how hardly 20 year old DDA flat roofs are cracking.. Anyway if you are lucky you can get DDA flats at 60% of the market value

[Guest dada_rocks]

What irks me is that people like Karan thapr let likes of Shaban Azmi walk all over him.. it turns into a lecture.. He should has asked in the show itself so adam you own 5-6 flats in Mumabi did they fall from trees but now she claims sthg and Karan thapar keeps his stoic silence thereby giving credence to her baseless outbursts.. Very poor job Mr Thapar.. I am sure had there been Modi claiming the contrary you woud have fried him with data and rightly so..

[sandtest]

As far as I can figure (for Mumbai)...the price gone high has two factors -- (1)Builders and their NEXUS -- their exist this in Mumbai. Estate agents are provided flats/plots owned by Builders or their financers with an understanding that they will NOT sell any flat at less than approx Rs. 5000/- per square feet in suburban. And around Rs. 3500/- (still very high) for Meera Road areas. This is happening because Builders and their estate agents are ready to bear the cost for keeping the 'unsold' flat or plot with themselves for time being. They do this because they are sure after a few months some or other pesron is gonna pay and buy. Their is no dearth of buyers among rising upper-midlle class indians -- in a way it is good, but that leads to point no. 2. (2) very slow development of infrastrcuture in New and Alternative areas which are nearby to Mumbai. for example...Laloo Prasad long back announced with great fanfare that new two lane railway track in addition to existing track will be operational by start of 2008 in Mumbai connecting Virar this was suppose to run parallel to existing track from Borivali till Virar to reduce rush. But it is yet to be optimized for maximum use. add to that the population in those areas have increased tremendously so even adding two more track is too late, and now actually needed is SIX tracks to reduce the huge rush in Locals from Virar. This is the reason why many folks living in suburban are not ready to move to Mira Road and ahead for cheaper flat rates, because infrastructure is not good. Slow pace of development of infrastructure and very high demand due to rising middle class has made the property a hot business for builders and their estate agents.

[sandtest]

What irks me is that people like Karan thapr let likes of Shaban Azmi walk all over him.. it turns into a lecture.. He should has asked in the show itself so adam you own 5-6 flats in Mumabi did they fall from trees but now she claims sthg and Karan thapar keeps his stoic silence thereby giving credence to her baseless outbursts.. Very poor job Mr Thapar.. I am sure had there been Modi claiming the contrary you woud have fried him with data and rightly so..

this is purposefully done DR. Even an average Indian like me was able to refute Shabana word-to-word on this issue, yet Thappad is so naive?...hard to believe. Someone seriously need to monitor funding source and persons employed in edit-room of CNN-IBN.

[Lurker]

(2) The OP which is not started with intention to discuss financial aspects, rather Shabana Azmi's brazen two faced lie. Actually, your concern for property price in Shabana Azmi thread can be seen as an attempt to protect your beloved poet Javed Akhtar's biwi from justified criticism??:cantstop::cantstop::--D:nervous:

I have not even defended Shabana Azami or Javed Akhtar yet so not sure why you have made that assumption. As for the property issue(forgetting price thingy for a second) this is something that obviously happens in modern India, and much as we may not want to hear, it happens in the best cosmopolitan town of them all, Mumbai. You yourself admit that in "certain" sections of the city even Hindus are not allowed to buy properties if they are non-vegetarian. Though it is amazing how you do not seem to have a problem with that. In Mumbai many a posh area are dominated by Gujjus, Jains and Sarswat Brahmins and yes they discourage non-vegetarians. There was a thread a year back on this and if you dig it up you will see my rant in there. On a broader scale you can see this all over India. Most UP/Bihar towns have a Bahman Mohalla, Kurmi Tolla, Mohammedan Tola etc etc. Part of the reason why this happens is the usual corruption/nepotism where once a person moves into a new location he automatically wants his relatives to move in, as if they make a better neighbours or whatever. This of course means other groups are discouraged and sometimes outright denied. This reminds me of the situation at Magadh University(at Gaya) in 80s. Every other time the Govt would change and the CM would be either a Bhumihar, a Rajput or a Yadav. Depending on who was the CM the Vice Chancellor would be a Rajput, Bhumihar or Yadav. And based on who was VC would the faculty selected. So every few years Magadh University was a Bhumihar University or a Rajput University or a Yadav University. Same thing continues in Bombay today. xxx

[Lurker]

As far as I can figure (for Mumbai)...the price gone high has two factors -- (1)Builders and their NEXUS -- their exist this in Mumbai. Estate agents are provided flats/plots owned by Builders or their financers with an understanding that they will NOT sell any flat at less than approx Rs. 5000/- per square feet in suburban. And around Rs. 3500/- (still very high) for Meera Road areas. This is happening because Builders and their estate agents are ready to bear the cost for keeping the 'unsold' flat or plot with themselves for time being. They do this because they are sure after a few months some or other pesron is gonna pay and buy. Their is no dearth of buyers among rising upper-midlle class indians -- in a way it is good, but that leads to point no.

3500 for Meera Road??? :nervous: So a 1000 sq feet would set you back by 35 lacks. And we havent mentioned property taxes, brokerage etc etc. Most likely a 2 BHK sets you back by 40 lacks in a suburb thats close to what 60-75 km outside Mumbai??? And then you ask why I rant about the situation??:((:((

[Guest dada_rocks]

this is purposefully done DR. Even an average Indian like me was able to refute Shabana word-to-word on this issue, yet Thappad is so naive?...hard to believe. Someone seriously need to monitor funding source and persons employed in edit-room of CNN-IBN.

After cash for vote ibn stands exposed.. but it seems BJP leaders have called off the boycott after they beamed the deleted version as per Amar Singh's desire of course.. They sud have continued with the boycott.. hit them where it hurts most.. their viewership wud have gone down and their credibility too wud have further nosedived..

[sandtest]

As for the property issue(forgetting price thingy for a second) this is something that obviously happens in modern India, and much as we may not want to hear, it happens in the best cosmopolitan town of them all, Mumbai. You yourself admit that in "certain" sections of the city even Hindus are not allowed to buy properties if they are non-vegetarian. Though it is amazing how you do not seem to have a problem with that. In Mumbai many a posh area are dominated by Gujjus, Jains and Sarswat Brahmins and yes they discourage non-vegetarians. There was a thread a year back on this and if you dig it up you will see my rant in there.

excellent observation, however it needs to be seen in proper light with Indic traditions else it gives perception of racism. You are right on the dot with respect to exclusive, Gujju, Sarswat Brahmin, Kayastha and Jains society in Mumbai. I will further add that there are also several exclusive Shia Muslim, Bohari Muslim and Parsi-zoroatsrian societies in Mumbai which you forgot to mention. Now it is amazing but it brings me directly to my village in a very remote UP and comparison still holds good. for example in my village which has not more than 100-150 houses but they are "seperated" without any official border in following categories --- (1) Babhanauti -- (it is a word in local UP) -- exclusive Brahmins live here (e.g. we people and our relatives/neighbors called as "patidaar') (2) Thakuran -- exclusive "singhs" or Thakurs live here. (3) Ahiraan -- exclusive Yadavs or ahira/gwaal live here. (4) kurmiyaan -- Exclusive for kurmis (5) Chamarauti -- exclusive for Scheduled caste folks Further there are 'pasiyaan', "koharaan' --those who make clay pots, Loharaan --those who are doing blacksmith jobs etc. Now, Since last more than so many hundred years these people in my village and like this hundreds of Village in Up are living as per their convenience in segregated way -- without ever complaining that we are refused to settle in another 'bastee" for different community. This is simply because each comunity caste has their own custom/eating. living habit which they feel comfortable living together. Come back to Mumbai and I feel this is the same thing but implemented in high rise buildings of Mumbai etc. instead of clay roofs of a remote village house of UP.

[sandtest]

3500 for Meera Road??? :nervous: So a 1000 sq feet would set you back by 35 lacks. And we havent mentioned property taxes, brokerage etc etc. Most likely a 2 BHK sets you back by 40 lacks in a suburb thats close to what 60-75 km outside Mumbai??? And then you ask why I rant about the situation??:((:((

yep, 3500 Rs. square feet for Shanti Nagar, Mira Road (that is walkable distance or max. 15 min. walk from station). Even far away from Meera Road station, i.e. at Highway, the rate is same -- but here reason is the builder has made an excellent infrastructure with all amenities like garden, swimming pool, even a nearby golf-Course. The same amenity in suburban is hard to get, though the price will cross 8000/- PS: got to go, catch you folks later.

[Desi Cartman]

wiase why is it that Mrs Shabana didnt say anything about bomb blasts and how some muslims are not doing the right thing ? I mean she was speaking on the behalf of Muslims ... so why did she miss this point :hmmmm2:

[Holysmoke]

3500 per sqft for meera road is INSANE!! There is no way I would buy a house if I had to move to India when I start working. With prices like these, there is no option but to rent a place. Usme bhi lafda.. oh, we dont lease them to single people, get married if you want to rent the house.. saale TMK Lurker, you are bang on about the gujju dominated areas. Most of walkeshwar/teenbatti is a gujju dominated area. Even the dominos pizza there is a pure vegetarian joint. Thats f'ed up.

[Guest dada_rocks]

wiase why is it that Mrs Shabana didnt say anything about bomb blasts and how some muslims are not doing the right thing ? I mean she was speaking on the behalf of Muslims ... so why did she miss the this point :hmmmm2:

She missed many points.. and when she commented on Kashmir issue her words were before this there has been communal harmony in J/K.. basically complete purging of valley from pandits and subsequent destruction of all the traces fo hindu symblism i.e around 500 temples is a non-event for this psec stalwart.. And she had the audcaity to chime: these days there is more opinion and less knowldege . yes madam there is and you are a living advertisement of your own dictum..