After Chandrayaan, ISRO plans mission to the sun

[THX_1138]

If you had followed my train of thought, I was suggesting not free handouts, but merely investing that amount of money on creating education opportunities, and such schemes with Govt participation that encourage small businesses, self employment etc. And as to your comment on IT creating 1 million jobs...tell me what has its impact been on reducing poverty levels ? that was my question. Apparently you havent grasped my thread of thought at all, and seem to think I am against technology itself. NO, like I said earlier, I am ALL for technology, but that it should result in tangible benefits for the terribly poor, and not just create new millionaires. In fact I have been working on several wireless projects with State and Central govts; and have in fact proposed a model of "mobile computer labs", vans equipped with 10 computers , and networked using WiMAX technology, ( a standard that provides air interface connectivity over 50 miles in line of sight) that can travel over 2500 sq miles over one month and bring 4 hours of computer usage to thousands of school children in remote villages. This cuts cost by 80% and increases reach by almost 10 times. If technology professionals can take up such businesses, instead of merely "donating", then we can say technology has indeed achieved its goal.

jobs... the best way to avoid poverty.

[Guest HariSampath]

actually what i am suggesting is the absolute opposite of what Milton Friedman and the whole University of Chicago school of economics is about... i am a keynesian and the later dictates that appropriate government spending in public works is the ideal way to sustain growth.

So...whats all the fuss...ideally, you and me are comrades in arms, I have been a DICON consultant with Asian development Bank, been a Technology Evangelist for 8 years....an International policy consultant for 5 years, and I have been raising issues with govts across the world, EXACTLY as you just said.....my paper "whose dollar is it anyway?" was published in the pre internet era of early 1990s....and I had discussions with George Stephanopolous, Bill Clinton's campaign manager in 1992, to incorporate core ideas in a year of recession......so....what do you finally say about 8 million children dying of hunger each year ? there is No economic theory that can defend this. Over.

[THX_1138]

So...whats all the fuss...ideally' date=' you and me are comrades in arms, I have been a DICON consultant with Asian development Bank, been a Technology Evangelist for 8 years....an International policy consultant for 5 years, and I have been raising issues with govts across the world, EXACTLY as you just said.....my paper "whose dollar is it anyway?" was published in the pre internet era of early 1990s....and I had discussions with George Stephanopolous, Bill Clinton's campaign manager in 1992, to incorporate core ideas in a year of recession......so....[b']what do you finally say about 8 million children dying of hunger each year ? there is No economic theory that can defend this. Over.

greater awareness and emphasize personal charity. government run charities are notoriously ineffective in india. in fact, government run endeavors are almost entirely ineffective. just as the supposed voluntary employment scheme. spend money on technology, how so ever seemingly impractical it might seem. the whole high particle energy research, which has yet to yield practical use as of yet was the origin of the internet. just as nasa's attempts to land on the moon gave rise to composite materials... and above all tang! tang dude... that justifies it all.

[Guest HariSampath]

greater awareness and emphasize personal charity. government run charities are notoriously ineffective in india. in fact, government run endeavors are almost entirely ineffective. just as the supposed voluntary employment scheme. spend money on technology, how so ever seemingly impractical it might seem. the whole high particle energy research, which has yet to yield practical use as of yet was the origin of the internet. just as nasa's attempts to land on the moon gave rise to composite materials... and above all tang! tang dude... that justifies it all.

Just to dwell on human behavior ...WHO emphasizes on personal charity ? and what is the guarantee it will work ? What if each and everyone making more than $100,000 says " why should I donate to anything, I care two hoots, let the poor people die"...you see, it doesnt work that way...not in regions like Aisa, South America and Africa, where the great majority of the 3 billion utterly poor people live. Why all this, I shall give you a small example of the attitudes of individuals and nations, from just 6 weeks back, when I was preparing a question session for CNN , on Barack Obama's campaign for presidency. A few years back, the 20 richest nations in the world adopted what is known as the Monterrey resolution of the UN....renewed in 2004, to allocate 0.70% of national incomes to fight world poverty...that is a commitment of a PATHETIC 70 cents for every $100 earned by that country who participates. The most shameful thing about this was , that these 20 nations did NOT actually start giving that utterly pathetic 70 cents...but merely said "they would prepare a schedule by which they would give", and to this day, still 6 nations have not even completed a schedule of how they would give this beggarly amount...forget about starting to give...and the wonderful United States of America tops the list of this 6 countries, in not even completing a plan when they would START giving. Meanwhile the world need to combat poverty is standing at a minimum $195 billions.......meaning a child dies of hunger every 3.5 seconds...21,000 per day and 8 million children per year...but hey...this doesnt happen in USA, UK, Germany, France etc....so why should they care....all they are gonna worry about is pumping $700 billions into a casino , paper dollar economy, to retain and fatten their own coffers , to sustain a failing stock market in which most of the top 500 -1000 decision makers have billions invested. So, when nations are this way , how will individuals earning $100,000 , even think about donating a few dollars , and that too to save some kids in Africa or Asia from dying ? NO way. Why should a 28 year old IT professional in India making Rs 4-5 Lakhs per year even think of donating Rs 2000 per year to save an Indian child from dying of hunger ? No way. So the time of "appealing to duty"..."charity" is all long past. Govts must impose serious regulations in order to fund povery alleviation in the short run. Job creation education etc are all fine, but will take time to happen, but the immediate need is to address this issue on a war footing...impose taxes on super luxury purchases that go into poverty funds directly and NOT as part of annual budget. Someone buying a 3rd car ( probably a Honda SUV) in India can well be taxed an extra 15% , someone buying his 5th seashore farm property can well be taxed 20%...I am talking of purchase end taxation that is not on the industry directly, but on the individual...like super rich people purchasing their 100th diamond jewel of the year for a pampered wife..they can and should be taxed extra. When someone is hit by a car and lying down critically injured, you just have to rush and save that life, NOT philosophize about why and how traffic rules should be followed and improved in future etc...yes they are all valid, but the most immediate thing would be to save a life...and thats what I say when I emphasize that every individual and collective effort from people and govts should be , at the very minimum, focused on at least kids dying of hunger, by the millions....and not theorize about what is the best economic model for 20 years from now.

[Holysmoke]

Dude, I had argued successfully about the role of Govt regulation of economic/social systems with Milton Friedman in 1992....you know the Chicago school classical economist.

CCII found!:woot:

[CC1981]

Insensitivity to human suffering is not merely low species behavior, but highly impractical too. Even a cursory study of history tells you that when human societies have yawning gaps between the opulent and the destitute, and this exists over a period of time, and when growing population adds fuel to fire, there is a big social unrest waiting to happen. Possibly revolution too. India is a fertile territory for it, and when half a billion people find they cant give even basic amenities to their children, and are not going to be able to do it by conventional democratic and political process, would resort to extra legal means on a mass scale. This is already evident through the increase of Maoist / naxalite activity in central India. btw, helping or assisting others within whatever levels is not a goal, but a consequence of higher thinking societies who are evolved more in social consciousness.

What is higher thinking and what is not is simply a matter of opinion. My point is very simple : Your argument of ' every individual lifted from poverty, every individual lifted into a life of proper nutrition, jobs & family life' leads to unfettered population growth - where each and every individual of the population is consuming resources - resources that are finite. If we were to lift every single Indian out of poverty and achieved the utopian goal of giving each and every Indian household a house they own, kids in school, mom/dad/both in the workforce, then our material consumption is going to increase manyfolds. Then what ? we don't have indefinite supply of iron for houses or cars, we dont have indefinite supply of arable land to keep feeding the ever-exapanding population. Blind devotion to betterment of each and every individual's survivability and ensuring they thrive simply leads to societerial collapse in the future - when resources run out/ supply of basic commodities outstrips demand. And there is nothing 'high falutan evolved social conciousness' in sealing the doom of your species/nation, simply because you naively believed that the manna to all problems is betterment of the lives of ALL the socially deprived people, leading to exponential growth & total exhaustion of resources. We simply need to realize that the earth is dying because of us - we have made millions of acres of fertile land into desert because of medieval farming practices through mankind's history, through untold deforestation, hunting species into extinction etc. etc. And right now, we are far past the point of sustainable development - if we were to ensure a western standard of living for each and every individual in the third world, this planet is not enough to support the cost of such a venture - environmentally AND materialistically. Therefore, we need to come up with a viable population control situation - where we not only need to scale back on the burgeoning population growth but actually lessen our numbers. That is the crux of the matter and that is something that nobody is prioritizing as the main goal. And that is what will make sure that we as a species go extinct in not so distant future. Indians arnt the only people who are naively unaware/refuses to acknowledge this stark reality - most humans are that way. But IMO, what we NEED to worry about right now is how the hell is India going to remain productive in the next few hundred years, as our stunning level of deforestation in the last 150 years has led to stunning amounts of soil erosion & loss of fertility, where animal species critical to the sustainability of nature are disappearing and all we have are more and more people leeching off of this planet. What we NEED to worry about is wtf is going to happen in another 100 years when most of the himalayan rivers run dry because global warming is going to make sure that there isnt going to be a gangotri or yamnotri etc. in another 100 years.

[THX_1138]

CCII found!:woot:

i was not going to go there... but you never know. he does know srikant or srikanth... the selector dude.