Guest dada_rocks Posted December 13, 2008 Posted December 13, 2008 http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081212&fname=parliament&sid=6&pn=12 Some gleanings from the speech (1) The third factor, which has now been acknowledged, is that the coordinates of this vessel were given the information. You say now that, at that moment, it was in the Pakistani territory. But you also say that it was two days earlier. Do you mean that nothing happened after that? Somebody has said, "Here is the Lashkar-e-Toiba vehicle. Hijack it." And we can just forget about it, [ke abhii to Pakistan ke waters meN hai..that it is still in Pakistan waters] So, intelligence was given. Yet what was our response? (2)Sir, I want to supplement this by drawing the attention of the House to the fog of unreality in which all this is being done. [i just read out the statement of the hon home minister that he had given on November 22, 2008. Now look at the facts of that day.] On the 25th and 26th November, 2008, that is, very literally on the eve of these attacks, our Home Secretary and his entire senior team was in Islamabad for a Joint Conference with the Secretary, Interior of the Pakistan Government. In their joint statement, what do they say? Now just see what is our psychology? This Joint Statement is issued on 26th November, 2008. Just now, Sir, you said that the terrorists came in those inflatable boats between 8.00 and 8.30.Now let's see what statement was given there, after gol gappas "The meeting was held in a cordial and friendly atmosphere. Both sides discussed the issues related to terrorism and drug trafficking and reviewed the implementation of decisions taken during the last round." Now, see, "Both sides noted with satisfaction the progress made and identified ways to further promote cooperation in a number of areas. Both sides condemned terrorism in all its forms and manifestations." [And they are organising!] "Both sides condemned terrorism in all its forms and manifestations and affirmed their resolve", as just now we have been asked to affirm our resolve, "to cooperate with each other to combat the menace of terrorism." (3)It was agreed that terrorism must be prevented and as directed by the leadership of the two countries at the meeting in New York on 24th September 2008, severe action be taken against any elements involved in terrorist acts." And, that very day, using that very sea route, the terrorists come to those very targets. [sir, there is a line from Vinobaji: hamaare yahaaN baat hii kaa kaam hai, kaam kii baat nahii hai. This is the problem. You have issued a very good appeal for unity. It is a very good thing. We are all with you. But it has to be done. You just now said:] India is in the eye of the storm of these terrorist onslaughts. I narrated to you that there have been 49 massive assaults, not incidents; and, 49 times, cyclostyled statements have been issued, 'cowardly, dastardly'. Just now, when the session commenced, you read out just such a statement. It is routinised. (4) Second point, Sir, is please stop this miscalled peace process because one of the very unfortunate statements that was agreed to by the Indian Government, in this case by the Prime Minister, was terrorists will not be allowed to come in way to derail the peace process. What did this mean -- Pakistan then had both options, go on doing terrorist attacks and the onus of keeping the peace process going would remain on India. That is it. Shed this. You know there is always an argument that is made to us when Musharraf was strong, 'no, no, he is there, he is strong, you have to make some concessions on Kashmir." When he was weak, 'no, no, he is your best bet, you must make some concessions to him, and you strengthen him.' Now there is so-called democracy, you say, 'Democracy, therefore, you must strengthen democracy, you must make concessions and you must keep the peace process going even as we are badgered everyday. There is a line from Josh Malihabadi: [zulm kartaa hai dushman aur ham sharmaaye rahte haiN--the enemy oppresses us, but we are in a state of feeling shy] (5)Sir, the eighth point is: Please do not go by the Joint Statements that their leaders sign with you and with great satisfaction the Home Secretaries exchange with each other. By Mr. Zardari's new statement, please look at the nature of Pakistani' State and society. In the Pakistani State the pervasiveness of the ISI, the power of the Army depends only on hostility with India and with successes against India in these operations. How will they give it up? As far as the society is concerned, Taliban is not the cause of what is happening. Taliban is the result of the Talibanisation of Pakistani society. I have had an occasion to quote a comprehensive thick study by Pakistani academics of the Institute for Sustainable Development Policy in Islamabad on the instructions given and the textbooks used not only in Madrasas but in Government schools of Pakistan (6)My point number 9 is that no war can be won with a strategy of permanent defence. You must make those who control and orchestrate such a war to pay. If you cannot make them pay individually, then, you must make the country realise the cost of doing all this to India. Ten, please realise -- this is a point for the liberals also -- whenever we are pushed into such a situation we say that [no, force should not be used. Only minimal force should be used]. But no war is won with minimal force. It is won by overwhelming the enemy. As it has happened in Mumbai now. [sir you asked how many terrorists were there. Ten? You mentioned nine..] and 200 commandos only from the NSG were sent, plus reinforcement, plus naval commandos. That is the scale at which you have to overwhelm. You can't do it with minimal force. That is why, Sir, when you look at this figure, [you try and kill six people in China and see what happens. Here you can kill 60,000 people and nothing happens to the killers!]. Not an eye-for-an-eye, not a tooth-for-a-tooth.That is completely wrong. For an eye, both eyes! For a tooth, the whole jaw! Unless India has that determination and that clarity, we will continue to bleed like this all the time (7)Eleven, the time when large armies could be sent across the borders -- [it is said a lot that we should attack Pakistan]-- that time has gone. The time when large bodies of armies could be sent across the borders has gone. There are no training camps to bomb. But Pakistan gives us the clue what we should be doing to make them register a cause, that is, look at the violence in Kashmir in the last year-and-a-half that has gone down because Pakistan has been preoccupied in its own problems. So, keep it preoccupied in its own problems in Baluchistan, in Gilgit Baltistan, in PoK. (8) Then, Sir, my next point, point No. twelve, is shed all inhibitions for collaborating with armies and intelligence agencies of other countries that have expertise in these matters. (9) I appeal to all sides that please do not make this a prestige issue because, on the one side [we all used to say, bring back POTA, but you had an allergy with it. You say there would be an investigative agency but it would not have teeth. Many states say that if it goes under the federal government] it will be misused against us, in this way things that are desperately needed by the country will not get timed. I will tell you the way out. It is very good that the Government is thinking on these lines. But the way out is shown by a Congressman-headed commission's report, that is, the Moily's Report of Administrative Reforms Commission of June 2008. (10) Not only congressman are idiots it seems ..read Virappa Moili commission;s findings.. He has devoted an entire chapter, that is, chapter 4, on dealing with terrorism. It says that clearly there is a felt need to strengthen the hands of security forces in the fight against terror even as human rights and constitutional values are protected. It lists several provisions that are weak provisions, several judgements that are coming in the way. Friends, you will be shocked to learn, many friends there would have forgotten that in the case involving the assassination of no other person than Shri Rajiv Gandhi, the Supreme Court held that it could not be regarded as a terrorist act. And throughout that whole portion none of those provisions of the Terrorist and Disruptive Activities Act could be applied. There are pages and pages that are quoted. "Terrorism and low intensity warfare have imposed new challenges on law enforcement that we are yet to accommodate even at the conceptual level." The Report says this. Then, they give many details. "From these it is evident that most countries have been adopting tough anti-terrorism measures, whereas the provisions of similar laws have been diluted in India over a period of time." Your spokesman, the chairman of your commission is saying this: "The existing penal laws in India were not enacted to deal with the situation, and, there is ample evidence to indicate that terrorists have been able to escape the law either by exploiting the loopholes in the ordinary law or by intimidating witnesses to subvert justice. There is, definitely, a need to have stringent provisions to deal with terrorists." It goes on. Sir, it is really worth reading. [Now, what is sensitive?] And, again they have said this: [ok, so you don't want a separate law, no problem,] but the changes that were made by the then Home Minister, Shri Shivraj Patil, in the Unlawful Activities Act, 2005 -- [this Act is of 1967 and the changes were done in 2005] -- have proved to be toothless. And, this is said by the Administrative Reforms Commission also. (11) So, they reviewed all the provisions and they suggested changes. [All right, if you don't want a new law, then as he has said, please strengthen the National Security Act. At least do that much. Is this a question of prestige? Then you'd change the federal agency, institute it] then, it will make sense. And, we will appeal to all States also not to get frightened. [Today, it is your party. Tomorrow it could be another party in power. If it is another party, then poor Congress states would say, no, we should not give them the federal agency as it could be misused against us.] So, a thing which is necessary for the country should not be delayed. Please do these things together. My friend, Shri Arun Jaitley, was just telling me this. [Just now Shri Jaiswal told us what all they learnt from the terrorist, apart from what you learnt through intercepts. Information about Lashkar-e-Toiba etc has been obtained from the terrorist itself.] But do you know that under the existing laws his confessional statement is not admissible as evidence in the court of law? You can't then link it with Pakistan. [Now, isn't it something? guys please see the irony here the evidence which we have been using to claim that Qasab is pakistani is not acceptable in indian court so technically speaking indian govt itself doesn't believe Qasab is Pakistani. With what face we have been claiming otherwise.. Had they used MCOCA then it might have ben admissible but MCOCA is not being used against Qasab just for political face-saving.. nothng bloody has changed seems this too shall pass. And although I do not want to take its name, that provision was there in POTA. That is why it was effective. Now, let's see this. This fellow was caught in Mumbai. Supposing he escapes to Chhatisgarg, Gujarat or Rajasthan. What would happen? There is no law!] (12) A member intervenes to ask if MCOCA has been applied in the current case] MCOCA is not in use. That is the next point. But, the law also would not exist because you are not approving it. [it is a matter of prestige that we would not use it! I am reminded of what Mrs Gandhi once said.] "What is the use of having a paper soap?" The next point is, after you pass these laws, after you set up these agencies, please use them. If there is attack on Parliament, you would not decide on Afzal Guru. All this is very necessary. Sir, I am heading towards the conclusion. The next point is this. Actually speaking, terrorism cannot be fought by NSGs and so on. [Mr Jaiswal, Mr Chidambaram, even if you make four regional hubs, even if you reach in four hours instead of nine hours] actually, terrorism is fought by the first responder. (13) The Prime Minister said the other day -- I remember his statement; it is an odd word to be used, but he said -- we cannot fight it unless the constable is brought in the vortex of our counter-terrorism strategy. [What is the situation of Constables? There is a deficiency of above 20 per cent in the IPS officers. Constables are in an even worse condition. Do we even know about their training?] Just see the technology these people used and the training that we are giving to the persons who are to fight them. Please remember that IB also consists of these very fellows. What is their training? Their qualification has now been reduced to eighth class. They are barely literate and they are going to meet high technology challenges! What facilities are they given? About 20 per cent of the police constables in Delhi have not been given family accommodation and are living in illegal slums. And we want them to be motivated to fight terrorism! We want to bring them in the vortex of our counter- terrorism strategy. So, you cannot have first-class antiterrorist operations without first-class policing; you cannot have firstclass policing in metropolitan areas without first-class policing in the hinterland; and you cannot have first-class policing in the coastal areas unless the Bangladesh borders open. So, it has to be a comprehensive solution and at all levels. You cannot have first-class counter-terrorism strategies by the NSG and a third-class court system, in which the 1993 accused for the Mumbai blasts have yet to be convicted and their appeals are still in process.Unless we get that kind of a society, it is all a matter of great distress. Ultimately, poor government would go and prosecute somebody. But if top quality lawyers agree to defend them, we would be back to the normal procedure of our courts. How can you fight terrorism in this way (14)
talksport Posted December 13, 2008 Posted December 13, 2008 Thanks for posting...and HIGHLIGHTING P.S: Do you always type your posts, or did you change your key board these days :--D
milkman Posted December 13, 2008 Posted December 13, 2008 Dada bada dedicated hai re tu :winky: Kitna bada bada likhta hai re tu, thoda chota sa summary bhi to de na re :--D
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 13, 2008 Posted December 13, 2008 maine nahin likha yaar main to bas copy pase kiya hun is baari.. ye summarized version hai real address to sala iska five times hai:--D
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