better occupation - actuary or investment banker?

[Kashmir_boy]

IMO i have always said that the actuarial route in the world is a very good one as overall it may not make as much money as IB they are still overall betrer if you look overall, well my brother wants to do either when he grows up and got his degree at Warwick in england in the course MORSE, which is respected by banks as being a respectful degree and university as its like in the top 5 for maths. What suggestions would you give him on his future career as he wants advise from people and wuld really appreciate it. thanks Kashmir_boy

[novpj]

These are two very different jobs. Do you mean investment banking or trading? I dont know a lot about actuatiral jobs but here's how I would think about it: Trading job with an investment bank: High risk-reward combo; what required to succeed is not whats taught in courses but instead street smarts (although it may help a bit in options trading or trading some complex illiquid instruments but think the appetite for that has decreased significantly due to credit crisis); think it would be a tough job in current economic conditions Investment banking: This is all about the art of the deal; again has got nothing to do with acedemics; whats required to succeed is how good are you at developing relationships and are you entrepreneurial; this job is all about taking lots of ideas to your clients and getting them excited about doing a deal and making the deal happen (you get paid only if the deal is consummated); what bankers look for is some basic understanding of valuation, commitment (ie they would want you to real want the job since lifestyle is bad) and social skills. I think again a tough career choice over the next 2-3 years since the deal flow is going to be bad Actuarial (I know the least about this): To the best of my understanding this will normally be a job with insurance companies and I think of it as a pricing job ie how do you price the underlying risk in a policy that you are writing. On the face of it, it wont look different than a trading job but I think in reality it would be very different. First of all my experience with indurance companies is that what separates a good one from a bad one is not how they measure/manage risk (although in the oong term it should) but instead its more about their ability to market and sell policies. In such a situation the pricer is typically the person who is holding the sales team back because if u deem the underlying risk to be big then you would price a policy (potentially) out of market [its like a risk management role which is looked down upon in trading firms]. Thus, my sense is this is typically a low risk reward job. It doesnt put you on a great management track since its not core to what makes a company successful.

[Kashmir_boy]

These are two very different jobs. Do you mean investment banking or trading? I dont know a lot about actuatiral jobs but here's how I would think about it: Trading job with an investment bank: High risk-reward combo; what required to succeed is not whats taught in courses but instead street smarts (although it may help a bit in options trading or trading some complex illiquid instruments but think the appetite for that has decreased significantly due to credit crisis); think it would be a tough job in current economic conditions Investment banking: This is all about the art of the deal; again has got nothing to do with acedemics; whats required to succeed is how good are you at developing relationships and are you entrepreneurial; this job is all about taking lots of ideas to your clients and getting them excited about doing a deal and making the deal happen (you get paid only if the deal is consummated); what bankers look for is some basic understanding of valuation, commitment (ie they would want you to real want the job since lifestyle is bad) and social skills. I think again a tough career choice over the next 2-3 years since the deal flow is going to be bad Actuarial (I know the least about this): To the best of my understanding this will normally be a job with insurance companies and I think of it as a pricing job ie how do you price the underlying risk in a policy that you are writing. On the face of it, it wont look different than a trading job but I think in reality it would be very different. First of all my experience with indurance companies is that what separates a good one from a bad one is not how they measure/manage risk (although in the oong term it should) but instead its more about their ability to market and sell policies. In such a situation the pricer is typically the person who is holding the sales team back because if u deem the underlying risk to be big then you would price a policy (potentially) out of market [its like a risk management role which is looked down upon in trading firms]. Thus, my sense is this is typically a low risk reward job. It doesnt put you on a great management track since its not core to what makes a company successful.

Well tbh he is still thinking bout his career as he is sdefinitely going to major in something he is also considering accountancy or possibly statistics, and from my knowledge of him he will find accountancy so broing as its essentially number crunching or statistics which in my opinion mite not get paid well and still not a great job but still damn good prospectus and that they are soo much in dmand and will bo in 20 years. IMO your are right its too risky stuff as an actuary i had a chance but IB or IT its too hard, one slip your right, its a game of luck and very hard to hack in the field.