The Outsider Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Polls dont expose the hypocrysy of resident Secular-Mullahs. For example the chief secular-e-azam was once telling me how he had no issues with Sharia while expounding the virtues of UCC in a different thread some days later. I have been doing this for many years (DR has done this the most ) and I know each one of them and their slimeball tactics. No, it's supporters of parties involved in beating up and molesting women who can't understand the difference between the following two statements : 1. I don't have too many issues with Shariah as it is practised in certain states. 2. I support Shariah And upon being asked the definition of Shariah, you were unable to provide any - because there does not exist any. Every country and organization comes up with their own definition of Shariah. Is the Shariah of UAE the same as Taliban? So quit misquoting me....well that's asking a bit too much as that is the only basis of you to spew your jingoism and hatred.
The Outsider Posted January 27, 2009 Author Posted January 27, 2009 And the states where Malaysia , Indonesia, qatar, oman and Bahrain IIRC .... these are known for their repressive regimes. Also dont forget that you yourself admitted in that thread that you didnt know anything about Sharia. Jordan, UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain, Malaysia, Qatar are pretty okay as far as I know. No non Muslim I have known or interacted with who has lived in these countries has had anything to complain about any draconian law. As far as I know they all follow Shariah. I don't need to be an expert on Shariah to see that these countries claim to follow Shariah and don't have any draconian stuff going on in them. and yes there exists a Shariat which is based on the holy book and the prophets sunnah let me know if you need a link will do that later ... point is no matter what diluted version you follow its still unacceptable. How do you reconcile the Shariah followed by UAE and Taliban? Both claim to follow Shariah.
The Outsider Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 Malaysia just announced yoga = haram ..... why ? Sharia. In the past they have demolished temples and the minorites have minimal rights over there. Ditto with Indonesia . As long as these minor irritants dont bother you then Sharia = vokay for you .... try telling them that you dont beleive in god and that you wont take a oath on the holybook and see what happens. I think Indonesia did, but yes Malaysia over the last few years is becoming increasingly radical which I don't support. But is used to a fairly tolerant state and so are the others in the list. Jordan, for example, even has a certain percentage of seats reserved for minorities in it's parliament. Bahrain is considered as tolerant as any country in the world. So, yes I don't have any major issues with the way Shariah is practised in the these places, which is different from the "I support Shariah" you keep quoting me as saying. Doesnt matter. Still idiotic. Recently a couple having fun and frolic in the beach got sentenced to 6 yrs. Iam sure you will find ways to support this sort of nonsense. I've been to Dubai. Know people who live there and know even more who have visited. No one has had any problems there. I don't know of the incident you have mentioned and it would be just a one off incident. There is no wide spread persecution going on in UAE and you would be quite foolish to claim there is - but then again you are, so might actually do it. Three fourths of UAE's population is of foreign origin. It is thriving center of almost all major corporations and businesses in the world. Yeah, they are all moving there so they can be persecuted by some draconian law. I believe you.
The Outsider Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/10/16/dubai.sex.couple.prison/index.html They got three months in jail for having sex on a public beach. Where the hell did you get the six years from. I bet I can find you worse actions of the government in India. Oh, and the next time you are in India, try having sex on a Bombay beach and tell me how it went if your Shiv Sena let you live to tell the story, forget about the case of nudity and public intercourse which will be brought against you. Actually here is one, http://www.iglhrc.org/cgi-bin/iowa/article/pressroom/pressrelease/733.html People were arrested for spreading awareness about HIV amongst gays. But I am sure you'll be happy for that because it fits right into your model parties' motto of persecution of people like molesting girls who drink.
The Outsider Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Malaysia Read the Persecution part in there and how temples are demolished. I already said above Malaysia is becoming more radicalized and I don't support that. But despite all the googling you are doing at this time, all you have got is 3 months jail for public sex - I think some of the redneck states would have stricter statutes than that.
The Outsider Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 BTW we get told that Hindus are supposedly very happy wonly in Padosee land(s) also ... :-D Care to point out where I said that? Or is this just more noise from your rear end?
seedhi Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 They got three months in jail for having sex on a public beach. Where the hell did you get the six years from. I bet I can find you worse actions of the government in India. Oh, and the next time you are in India, try having sex on a Bombay beach and tell me how it went if your Shiv Sena let you live to tell the story, forget about the case of nudity and public intercourse which will be brought against you. Actually here is one, http://www.iglhrc.org/cgi-bin/iowa/article/pressroom/pressrelease/733.html People were arrested for spreading awareness about HIV amongst gays. But I am sure you'll be happy for that because it fits right into your model parties' motto of persecution of people like molesting girls who drink.Shariah law includes death by stoning for adultery. An Indonesian woman was sentenced in 2000 to death by stoning in UAE for adultery http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/660233.stm . The sentence was later reduced to 1 year imprisonment followed by deportation on the appeal of Indonesian embassy. Still, it is proof that extremely regressive laws are part of Shariah if it is implemented as is.
The Outsider Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 Back then ( in 2006 )when we discussed this you were quite adamant that Malayasia was cool. A lot of radicalization of Malaysia is pretty recent. you need more evidence ? Uhh...yeah. Certainly more than a three month sentence, which you were claiming to be six years for having public sex when similar or stricter laws exist in India and even the US. Unless you are saying thousands of corporations, hundreds and thousands of people are flocking to UAE to get persecuted by Shariah.
The Outsider Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 look above ... Seedhi has provided a link for stoning. Errr...one sentence passed 10 years back by a local Shariah court in some remote outback of UAE which was subsequently overturned? Yeah, now I really believe hundreds of thousands of foreigners and thousands of corporations are being stoned to death in Dubai.
The Outsider Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 PS : All stoning sentences in UAE go to automatic appeal, and from what I could find on the internet none get upheld. In fact, I could not even find when the last stoning sentence was upheld in UAE. Moreover, each Emirate in UAE has it's independent laws and my reference to UAE was more in the context of Dubai/Abu Dhabi than the remote outback Emirates.
The Outsider Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 do you deny that these states dont allow minorities to freely practice their religions ? Do you deny that these states have draconian laws ? Just because people shut up and put up - as is the wont of Hindus wherever they go - doesnt mean that everything is hunky dory over there. I haven't studied their law book in detail, so I wouldn't know if there are any draconian laws or not, but the ground realities are that even if there are draconian laws they are not implemented in practise, at least not anymore than a lot of other countries which don't have Shariah. Hindus? Pay a visit to Dubai - the place is milling with foreigners from everywhere. 75% of Dubai's population is foreigners. I suppose they are going there in droves to get persecuted. Bahrain and Jordan are as tolerant as states as any. Jordan, in fact has 10% of it's parliamentary seats reserved for Christians who form 6% of the population. Bahrain has a 40% population of foreigners, not limited to Hindus. And of course Kuwait. There are so many people from everywhere who go to Kuwait. I have not heard anyone complain about draconian laws being implemented on them. Now of course, all this is a queue for you to start googling and come up with some other isolated incident somewhere. That would not mean that I would start having serious issues with the way law is practised in these places as I don't have a serious issue with the way law is practised in India despite arresting people spreading HIV awareness or putting teenagers in jail on criminal charges for cheating in an exam. Yes, I would critize these isolated incidents but would not say there is a serious law issue there based just on these.
The Outsider Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 So you are allowed to build temples and churches freely ? How about pubs and might clubs in these places ? And most importantly will you survuve if you say you dont beleive that the quran is a word of god? Straight answers if you dont mind. That churches and temples exist in the mentioned places is proof enough that you are allowed to build them, right? Not only build them but visit them. Here is a list of some churches in UAE in case you feel like dropping by : http://archive.gulfnews.com/uae/about_uae/more_stories/10203234.html The link above also has a photograph from a church, which I suppose was photoshopped. I've personally been to pubs and clubs in Dubai, so yeah they exist as well. Here is a list just in case you are planning on a visit : http://www.asiatraveltips.com/BarsinDubai.shtml That 75% of Dubai and 40% of Bahrain are foreigners and more are immigrating there every year, a lot of whom don't believe in the Quran, is proof enough that they are not only surviving but thriving. And about foreigners not complaining .... they dont complain even in BD and Pak.. doesnt mean jack sheet. Sometime back there was a BD Hindu right here who was saying things are hunky dory for minorities over there. Which city in Pakistan or Bangladesh has a 75% or even a 40% or even a 4% population of foreigners?
The Outsider Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 How did you get those links ? Google anychance ? werent you getting upset at me using google ?:cantstop: Those are just exceptions and you know it. If you are trying to tell me that people are allowed to practice other religions as openly and freely elsewhere then you are simply indulging in dishonest conversation. And I doubt they will allow you to openly critique Quran . A lot of anti islam websites are simply blocked by these countries. Moreover you started this discussion based on Indonesia and Malayasia which you now accept was wrong. Yeah, google and personal experience of having been to Dubai, which is more than you have. How else was I to show you that churches and temples exist in these places. Go there and click photographs? Listen, I am done with this because the women beating and molesting supporter person you are is not going to get it regardless of what is presented. My reason for even broaching a discussion with a retard like you was the hope that you will quit misquoting me. But your moronity is now more clear than ever - you deliberately misquote people so that it gives you an opportunity to further your hate driven propaganda. You have asked for one thing after another in this thread of me and I have given you all the information. On the other hand, the only thing you brought out was a lie that someone got 6 years in jail for having sex on a beach and refused to discuss it further when pointed out that they would have got similar or worse in India, forget about an apology of lying to prove your point. No comments on people getting arrested in India for spreading HIV awareness nor for teenagers being thrown in jail for cheating. Have fun and orgasms thinking about women getting beaten and molested by your vigilantes.
The Outsider Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 BTW could you show me a post where I praised and supoprted molesting ? No, but I can show you posts where you praised and supported the perpetrators of the molesting and beating. And on the topic of misquoting you ... could you show me where I misquoted you ? In the original discussion you started of with what I said " I have no problems with Sharia" and then when confronted conveniently started adding clauses to your statement. do you deny this ? Huh? You still haven't been able to define Shariah. Dubai/Bahrain say they are following Shariah. Taliban/Saudi say they are also following Shariah. The groud realities are pole aparts in the two places and I don't have too many issues with the ground realities in places like Dubai, Bahrain etc. Many countries not following Shariah are equal or worse off. Oh....and regarding the human rights section you pasted from Wikipedia, try running a search on Human Rights and India, and I guarantee you that you will find far worse things than some employers asking the religion of their employees. Regarding Lucknow, I don't think I have anything to learn from you. My family has stayed there for generations and I know the ins and outs of the city like the back of my hand, so spare yourself the trouble.
Desi Cartman Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 I dont know what laws are followed in the UAE but I have been told first hand experinces of my relatives , friends and colleages 1) a guy I met in the plane who is an Aussie told me that the customs officer destroyed his bible in front of him 2) my uncle left his business in dubai since his partner (who never contributed anything) asked him to sell his share for 20% of what it was worth else he was going to get him deported 3) My colleague worked in UAE as a project manager and one of his direct report refused to work since he said "I will do this only if allah wants me to do it" , when the manager said what the hell do u mean .. the citizen called cops and got him arrested for abusing allah All 3 left UAE and decided never to work there again
The Outsider Posted January 29, 2009 Author Posted January 29, 2009 I dont know what laws are followed in the UAE but I have been told first hand experinces of my relatives , friends and colleages 1) a guy I met in the plane who is an Aussie told me that the customs officer destroyed his bible in front of him 2) my uncle left his business in dubai since his partner (who never contributed anything) asked him to sell his share for 20% of what it was worth else he was going to get him deported 3) My colleague worked in UAE as a project manager and one of his direct report refused to work since he said "I will do this only if allah wants me to do it" , when the manager said what the hell do u mean .. the citizen called cops and got him arrested for abusing allah All 3 left UAE and decided never to work there again And yet 75% of Dubai's population is foreigners....please enlighten me how?
The Outsider Posted January 29, 2009 Author Posted January 29, 2009 Yeah go ahead. Nothing to go ahead.....look at your posts calling them vigilantes. True because we accepted that most countries dont follow one version. It is not my problem that these countries that implement it are so ****ed up that they themselves cannot come to a conclusion on what is Sunnah and what isnt ... a topic that I will be more than willing to take you on but your prissy highness will get bent out of shape the sooner I start quoting from their holy books. Your problem not mine. So we agree there is no definition of Shariah? Good! Ergo Sharia is better or atleast as good as any other system ehh ? :--D No, Shariah as practised in certain states is as bad or as good as in other states which don't practise Shariah. Is that why you couldnt recognize that Mullah from your city upon whose death the PM , Mata Rome and whos-who of Indian politics sent condolence messages ? He's a nobody in Lucknow - never contested any elections etc. forget about winning, to prove his popular following.
Desi Cartman Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 And yet 75% of Dubai's population is foreigners....please enlighten me how? cuz people need jobs , money , experience of working overseas etc. Look its not like every non-muslim gets harassed there but I have heard way too many examples where people felt that being of another religion (maybe just foreigner ) didnt give them proper rights
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 75% of dubai's population is foreigner When I pointed out muslims are flocking to Gujraat so had their been persecution why wud they go there. I was told by psec cabal here l(urker,shewatch etc) that when people need job they can even risk their lives......... ( Mind you I am not equating gujrat with dubai since last time i checked gujrat too is being governed by same consittution as any other indian state) but classic intellectual dishonesty of these folks are at display here....... same folks are tryng to say now that since dubai has many foreingners hence case of discrimination against non-muslim doesn't hold water. Can you psec cabal make up your mind please....... All I ask is little consistency.. pick whatever principle you want to stick to but be consistent mates tsk tsk same
The Outsider Posted January 29, 2009 Author Posted January 29, 2009 ^ Show me one post where I said people are moving to Gujarat despite risking their lives. Else accept you too are a certified moron. Also, show me one post where I have said Modi has not brought good economics to Gujarat. Else accept you are a certified idiot. Modi harmed the very fabric of secularism for which he evaded all trials like Rajeev Gandhi did and deserves to be brought to justice like Rajeev Gandhi should have. But neither were ever and nor will they ever face a trial. That doesn't mean they have not done any good for India/Gujarat.
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