The Indian Elections Thread

[Lurker]

So true. In no other mature democracy' date= like for example in the US or Europe, do we have this spectacle of the largest party being completely controlled by one single family. RG might become PM midway through this term, and if that comes about, it would be a slap on the faces of Pranab Mukherjee, AK Antony etc who are incomparably more experienced than him. On the other hand it would be better in the sense that political power would return into the hands of the PM. And RG would be judged in future on his performance rather than surname.

That's again, for the lack of better word, BS. I think some of you have this weird idea about Indian electorate as some short of backward, illiterate, uneducated, poor person who does not have any idea of what he is doing and ends up supporting Congress just for the heck of Gandhis. Reality check time, Congress won every single seat in Delhi. I suppose it is fair to say that the entire city of Delhi, by all accounts one of the most educated/rationale/prosperous/urban/sophisticated etc etc area, was not "controlled" by spectacle of a single family. Lets move on to Mumbai now. Mumbai South, unarguably the poshest and hippest area of India. Guess who wins from there? Why Congress of course! One of the most satisfying thing for me in this election was how Congress has swept the entire North East. These are tiny states and collectively form as many seats as say Punjab but it is nice to see a political party that is respected in remote corners of the country as also the metropolitan cities. BJP achieved what? Did not win in any of the major metropolitan cities, did not open account in NE or J&K, and other than Karntaka did not do anything in Southern states. National Party? My hiney. xxx

[seedhi]

That's again, for the lack of better word, BS. I think some of you have this weird idea about Indian electorate as some short of backward, illiterate, uneducated, poor person who does not have any idea of what he is doing and ends up supporting Congress just for the heck of Gandhis. Reality check time, Congress won every single seat in Delhi. I suppose it is fair to say that the entire city of Delhi, by all accounts one of the most educated/rationale/prosperous/urban/sophisticated etc etc area, was not "controlled" by spectacle of a single family. Lets move on to Mumbai now. Mumbai South, unarguably the poshest and hippest area of India. Guess who wins from there? Why Congress of course!

Why BS? Are the Democrats or Republicans controlled by one family? Are the Tories or the Labour party controlled by a family? No, such a thing is unheard of in present day developed democracies. We can only witness such phenomenon is poorer nations like India, pakistan etc. Yes congress is successful. But that does not justify the brand of dynastic politics prevalent inside it. Lalu Yadav ruled Bihar like his fiefdom, but that did not justify his brand of governance. Left has ruled WB for 30 years, that does not justify their economic policies either. There is no reason that opposition to dynastic politics of congress should be discontinued simply because of electoral success. Dynastic politics is neither desirable nor necessary and the country will be better off without it. Heck, even Rahul Gandhi says he is against dynastic politics. Personally the biggest turnoff about congress for me is the dynasty.

[riya]

People generally prefer Congress simply becuause they don't consider far right/far left policies desirable.So it is like lesser of the three evils.But congress party has no confidence without the Gandhis.Thats the problem.And they make some one who never wins election as Home minister,why ? He might be a puppet'and another puppet as the first citizen. So a certain element in congress party doesn't want powerful selfrespectful personalities to be in the much important positions.Such incidents are a real shame for a democratic country .How the heck PM not even participating in election.If he is a popular person why he should not ?

[ViruRulez]

People generally prefer Congress simply becuause they don't consider far right/far left policies desirable.So it is like lesser of the three evils.But congress party has no confidence without the Gandhis.Thats the problem.And they make some one who never wins election as Home minister' date=why ? He might be a puppet'and another puppet as the first citizen. So a certain element in congress party doesn't want powerful selfrespectful personalities to be in the much important positions.Such incidents are a real shame for a democratic country .How the heck PM not even participating in election.If he is a popular person why he should not ?

I dont care of Chidambaram does not wins election though I think he has won the election.. but Chidambaran deserves to a home minister .. he is much better than other ministers and I believe he should be the home minister this time around too... I dont think there are any other good leaders deserving to become PM except Chidambaram And regarding PM, both MMS and Advani were old candidates which I do not like. But given a choice between Advani and MMS, I would say MMS is a better option because MMS is one of the best economist ever produced in India and he would be able to deal the recession in a much better way. Most people think that Manmohan has not done anything for the country. But the fact is that India's economic growth since the 90s can be credited to some extent to Manmohan Singh. MMS was the finance minister in Narasimha Rao's govt. though he never contested elections then too. But he brought about policies which helped economic reform in India. Even Obama knows that and I had heard an interview of Obama the other day. Obama said that MMS was one of the main reasons for India's economic growth. So, I think MMS might be a better option and I dont think he will act as a puppet at least in economic decisions.

[ViruRulez]

So true. In no other mature democracy, like for example in the US or Europe, do we have this spectacle of the largest party being completely controlled by one single family. RG might become PM midway through this term, and if that comes about, it would be a slap on the faces of Pranab Mukherjee, AK Antony etc who are incomparably more experienced than him. On the other hand it would be better in the sense that political power would return into the hands of the PM. And RG would be judged in future on his performance rather than surname.

For all those who think Rahul Gandhi is a greedy person hungry for power, media reports are claiming that Rahul Gandhi might again refuse to be part of cabinet and instead work for the party with the normal people .. if it is right then Rahul Gandhi is surely a lot better than the previous Gandhis.... he has done all the hard work but if he rejects the cabinet post too then it is surely commendable .. he would increase his respect as a youth leader in the country if he takes such a step of rejecting a cabinet post

[Lurker]

Why BS? Are the Democrats or Republicans controlled by one family? Are the Tories or the Labour party controlled by a family? No' date= such a thing is unheard of in present day developed democracies. We can only witness such phenomenon is poorer nations like India, pakistan etc.

Phir wahi single track??? For starters I have serious umbrage to anyone who thinks "developed" or "matured" democracies are Western world. Indian democracy is more than matured and developed thank you very much. Secondly how can you do a direct one on one comparison between say American system and Indian system? In the end it will boil down to the two societies. Are the two societies the same?? If not how does the comparison work? In US, for example, teenage pregnancy is a big issue. Single mothers. Abortion. Divorce etc etc. All reasons why family system is down in the poopers. So help me understand how does American system build off families when the entire country's family system is seen as collapsing?? Compare this to India where family system has lot more values. We all know of boys, or girls, who have sacrificed their love for the sake of their family. When did you hear that in England??? Every economic power house in India has some family roots - Tata, Birla, Mafatlal, Bajaj, Mittals, Mahindras etc etc. Again how many such industrial houses do you see in USA? Bollywood is dictated by families, how many such exist in Hollywood?? The comparison is out of whack, in my opinion. As for popularism of Gandhi family it is not only in India. In the 2004 Jeet lo Dil series Pakistanis had saved the most adulation for Priyanka Gandhi when she had arrived there.

Yes congress is successful. But that does not justify the brand of dynastic politics prevalent inside it. Lalu Yadav ruled Bihar like his fiefdom, but that did not justify his brand of governance. Left has ruled WB for 30 years, that does not justify their economic policies either. There is no reason that opposition to dynastic politics of congress should be discontinued simply because of electoral success. Dynastic politics is neither desirable nor necessary and the country will be better off without it. Heck, even Rahul Gandhi says he is against dynastic politics. Personally the biggest turnoff about congress for me is the dynasty.

And I respect your views, except I dont see how the comparison is valid between Gandhi family and Laloo Yadav(or Communists). Laloo was a big time crook who properly effed Bihar and sent it back 2 decades. I doubt even the worse Gandhi critic family will say that about them. You may not like Gandhi family, fair enough, but the fact is that Congress party rallies around them. Instead of you thinking that Gandhi family owns Congress maybe it is the other way around? Congress has tried people ranging from Narsimha Rao to Sitaram Kesari to Arjun Singh. Didnt work. Every one faught amongst themselves. The moment you see a prominent Gandhi the party galvanizes. And even that would have counted for nothing had Manmohan Singh not been the PM. So frankly your assertions, valid from your perspective maybe, is not valid at all! xxx

[King Tendulkar]

What a stupiud post. Thankfully the Indian public is much more mature than you are. Do you think the Indian people, the common men, worried about roti, Kapda and makan, care for a name? Its people like you who seem to be impresed by the false show of Modi, hindutva, etc. Indian public cares for peace and progress, not mandir and division. They care for development and job opportunity not empty rheotoric Its guys like you who give the impression that they want a winner based on religion and politics rather than REAL issues. So you see the name bJP and want them to win not caring that they did not have a single clear agenda, not caring that they are just empty talk this time, not caring that they do not have a strong leader. Not connected to ground realities at all. Teh Indian public is much maturer than yu and saw behind all these

So if the indian voters are so mature why do they vote in masses for idiots like Mayawati,lalu, yadav, mamata banarjee and Communists. O and no doubt you hate modi and think he is an idot as well. Well guess what the mature indian voters piled in votes for him as well hence him sweeping gujurat. Get your head out of the chattering middle classes of india and you will soon see voters of india voting on basis of caste, religion and cos they get free tvs. And guess what they even vote for surnames and dynastic politics. Hence that kid Rahul being soon to be our next PM when ever he chooses. They will all pile in to vote for him cos he is a gandhi and no other real reason. Any of the gandhis could win next election wether it is the italian, rahul, priynaka or the family dog! This is not in bitterness I post but just I think it is a fact and that the gandhi royal family will always win. BJP are doomed

[King Tendulkar]

For all those who think Rahul Gandhi is a greedy person hungry for power' date=' media reports are claiming that Rahul Gandhi might again refuse to be part of cabinet and instead work for the party with the normal people .. if it is right then Rahul Gandhi is surely a lot better than the previous Gandhis.... he has done all the hard work but if he rejects the cabinet post too then it is surely commendable .. he would increase his respect as a youth leader in the country if he takes such a step of rejecting a cabinet post[/quote'] Purely tactical. He can have power with no resbonsibilty. No one can point the finger at him for lack of perfomance in a ministirial position. Instead he can and will time his decision when to become PM and tell Mr Singh when he should step down to make way for the blue blooded rahul. My guess is he will wait 1 year before next election to maximise impact and remain fresh in publics mind. So he will have honeymoon period right in to next election so he can sweep all before him!

[Jasoos]

King Tendulkar. Thats the most unfortunate part. Most here on ICF have that ghatiya naukaro wali middle class mentality. They will never grow in life. Let them be happy with their congress.

[riya]

I dont care of Chidambaram does not wins election though I think he has won the election.. but Chidambaran deserves to a home minister .. he is much better than other ministers and I believe he should be the home minister this time around too... I dont think there are any other good leaders deserving to become PM except Chidambaram

I wasn't talking about Chidambram,but Shivraj patil .In spite of his defeat in election he was made Home minister simply because he was a chamcha.And once he proved as an utter failure they appointed Chidambaram.But appointing Patil itself was a total mockery of the democratic system and its loopholes. See i am not against Congress party,as a citizen i want a stable Govt,i am purley against the dynasty politics. Rumour is that Manmohan Singh will resign PM position within two years sighting age and health concerns,and guess who will then ? It is not like that Manmohan Singh has all the power already, we know that . But no one else would come? Because Lal Bahadur Shastri and Madhav Rao Sindhiya .....:nervous:

[King Tendulkar]

King Tendulkar. Thats the most unfortunate part. Most here on ICF have that ghatiya naukaro wali middle class mentality. They will never grow in life. Let them be happy with their congress.

I have no problems with congress winning if it was due to their performance or policies. But they got votes due to gandhi surname and will continue to get them cos of this. Find it sad. Just like its sad people like mayawati gets bundles of votes cos dalits vote for her and poor. Despite her being massivley corrupt and doing jack in terms of performance. So much for the mature indian voter:((

[riya]

For all those who think Rahul Gandhi is a greedy person hungry for power' date=' media reports are claiming that Rahul Gandhi might again refuse to be part of cabinet and instead work for the party with the normal people .. if it is right then Rahul Gandhi is surely a lot better than the previous Gandhis.... he has done all the hard work but if he rejects the cabinet post too then it is surely commendable .. he would increase his respect as a youth leader in the country if he takes such a step of rejecting a cabinet post[/quote'] He has to do all the job of a PM and other party works ,how can he assume a cabinet position .Way to go Rahul:winky:

[riya]

Indian voters have not matured enough yet .If then no actor,criminal would have elected ever.

[King Tendulkar]

Also the lack of maturity of voters is shown by the big succecces of many criminals, tainted perople and celbrities in these elctions. The successes of Azharuddin and Sidhu for example shows IMO a clear lack of maturity in the voters. I mean jeez Cheeranjeevi has also been in politics about 8 months , forms a new party and does really well picking up seats based purely on him being a famous actor in south! This hero worship voting is exactly why gandhis will always win elections. He will win by a massive amount in next election. BJP have no option in countering the Rahul factor. Thery should just wave the white flag

[CSK Fan]

Also the lack of maturity of voters is shown by the big succecces of many criminals, tainted perople and celbrities in these elctions. The successes of Azharuddin and Sidhu for example shows IMO a clear lack of maturity in the voters. I mean jeez Cheeranjeevi has also been in politics about 8 months , forms a new party and does really well picking up seats based purely on him being a famous actor in south! This hero worship voting is exactly why gandhis will always win elections. He will win by a massive amount in next election. BJP have no option in countering the Rahul factor. Thery should just wave the white flag

These people are the lesser of 2 evils and thats y the people choose them. If they thought there was an alternative, they would have voted flor them. Clearly BJP is not the alternative hey thought. You have not given a shred of proof that the congress won only because of hero worship. If that was the main reason, the vote tally would have remained the same from last election. Also before that BJP would not have come to power ever as the voters are more or less the same the Gandhi name has remained the same. What changed for congress to increase the tally?

[graphic23]

Also the lack of maturity of voters is shown by the big succecces of many criminals, tainted perople and celbrities in these elctions. The successes of Azharuddin and Sidhu for example shows IMO a clear lack of maturity in the voters. I mean jeez Cheeranjeevi has also been in politics about 8 months , forms a new party and does really well picking up seats based purely on him being a famous actor in south! This hero worship voting is exactly why gandhis will always win elections. He will win by a massive amount in next election. BJP have no option in countering the Rahul factor. Thery should just wave the white flag

You know the thing is, that you need to know things before you type BS like this. NTR, who started the TDP party, through which, several special schemes for the rural areas in Andhra) was a film actor. He was voted for because people trusted him. Similarly, Chiranjeevi's been involved and has started several social programs for blood, eye donation, and orphan shelters, etc. There's no reason why he shouldn't contest. I didn't hear you whine and ***** about US people when they elected Arnold Schwarzenegger. Or that one of their presidents was an actor from Hollywood. But these guys are mature is it? And as MTC points out, theres no proof as to your theory that people voted for Congress because of the Gandhi name.

[seedhi]

Phir wahi single track??? For starters I have serious umbrage to anyone who thinks "developed" or "matured" democracies are Western world. Indian democracy is more than matured and developed thank you very much.

By developed democracies I mean democracies in developed nations, my next sentence should have made it clear. And no, India is not as matured as USA as a democracy. India is doing well considering its socio-economic condition but it is way behind USA if a context free comparison is made, which will admittedly be extremely unfair to India.

Secondly how can you do a direct one on one comparison between say American system and Indian system? In the end it will boil down to the two societies. Are the two societies the same?? If not how does the comparison work? In US, for example, teenage pregnancy is a big issue. Single mothers. Abortion. Divorce etc etc. All reasons why family system is down in the poopers. So help me understand how does American system build off families when the entire country's family system is seen as collapsing??

How is this relevant to my post on dynastic politics. Just because the US family system is collapsing, doesnt justify dynastic politics. Every system has its goods and bads. Is it not worthwhile to expect political parties in India to incorporate the same level of internal democracy as in the USA?

Compare this to India where family system has lot more values. We all know of boys, or girls, who have sacrificed their love for the sake of their family. When did you hear that in England??? Every economic power house in India has some family roots - Tata, Birla, Mafatlal, Bajaj, Mittals, Mahindras etc etc. Again how many such industrial houses do you see in USA? Bollywood is dictated by families, how many such exist in Hollywood??

By the way USA also has has industrial families. In any case why compare corporate entities with political parties? Wealth is something that can be passed on to the next generation as it is a physical asset, and corporations are in a large part controlled by the wealthy. But political parties are supposed to be led, not by wealthy men and women, but talented ones. I refuse to believe that leadership qualities, organizational skills, mass appeal and a vision for the country is only passed on through lineage. Please dont compare bollywood to political parties, thats laughable.

The comparison is out of whack, in my opinion. As for popularism of Gandhi family it is not only in India. In the 2004 Jeet lo Dil series Pakistanis had saved the most adulation for Priyanka Gandhi when she had arrived there.

I am sure many Indians are popular in pakistan. L Balaji was also supposed to be a hit with them, that does not make him the automatic choice for leading the DMK though.

And I respect your views, except I dont see how the comparison is valid between Gandhi family and Laloo Yadav(or Communists). Laloo was a big time crook who properly effed Bihar and sent it back 2 decades. I doubt even the worse Gandhi critic family will say that about them.

Well then you misread me. My point was that electoral success cannot silence principled criticism. Elections are faught on a gamut of issues - just because congress won does not justify the dynasty. Similarly Lalus electoral success did not justify his complete lack of governance. Lefts dominance does not justify their economic policies. Rajiv Gandhi's win in 1984 did not justify the riots.. so on.

You may not like Gandhi family, fair enough, but the fact is that Congress party rallies around them. Instead of you thinking that Gandhi family owns Congress maybe it is the other way around? Congress has tried people ranging from Narsimha Rao to Sitaram Kesari to Arjun Singh. Didnt work. Every one faught amongst themselves. The moment you see a prominent Gandhi the party galvanizes. And even that would have counted for nothing had Manmohan Singh not been the PM. So frankly your assertions, valid from your perspective maybe, is not valid at all!

Whatever way you may look at it, the congress party depends on one family. They call the shots. Theoretically speaking, if I have to join a party with the goal to one day lead it then congres is simply ruled out as an option. A political party is ideally supposed to be like a gigantic refinery. It should distill out talent from 1.1 billion people so that the "best" become the leaders of the party. In this regard congress, or any party with a dynasty at the top, is not fulfilling its role properly. What bugs me about the congress is that till the 1960s there was zero hint of such a family rule. To see a party which boasted of stalwarts like Bose, Patel, Gandhi, Nehru, Azad and many others sink to such a level is more than depressing. I cannot even think of the pre-independence leaders of the congress countenancing anything remotely close to a dynasty.

[ViruRulez]

Indian voters have not matured enough yet .If then no actor' date=criminal would have elected ever.

Also the lack of maturity of voters is shown by the big succecces of many criminals' date= tainted perople and celbrities in these elctions. The successes of Azharuddin and Sidhu for example shows IMO a clear lack of maturity in the voters. I mean jeez Cheeranjeevi has also been in politics about 8 months , forms a new party and does really well picking up seats based purely on him being a famous actor in south! This hero worship voting is exactly why gandhis will always win elections. He will win by a massive amount in next election. BJP have no option in countering the Rahul factor. Thery should just wave the white flag

First of all I dont understand why celebrities cannot be politicians ... they are also part of society and Indian citizens and there is no reason why they should not be able to fight in elections .. they get more popularity because they are popular faces being celebrities... that is what celebrities mean .. and if you think celebrities being elected to parliament is an indication of voters not being matured then I will say you are very confused.. if you believe that US voters are matured then why was Arnold voted as governor of one of the most prominent states of US - California .. there have been even celebrity president in your so called matured American decocracy .. US presidents have even been involved in scandals since time unknown but they are still voted to power However you are right that there are still criminals selected to power and this must be stopped .. many popular criminal MPs were kicked out but still there is a rise in the number of MPs with criminal charges According to National Election Watch, there are almost 150 MPs with criminal charges elected to Lok Sabha this elections of which 73 MPs face serious charges ... BJP leads the list with 42 criminal MPs with 17 facing serious chargers, Congress is a close second with 41 criminal MPs with 12 facing serious charges, Samajwadi Party is third with 8 criminal MPs out of which 7 are facing serious charges So, this criminalization has to end but it should also be made clear who is a criminal MP and who is not ... people like Ansari, Pappu Yadav were known to all and hence they were voted out .. but criminal charges on most others are not even known by common people .. hope that somebody takes a step to inform the voters about the criminal contestants so that voters do not vote for them

[King Tendulkar]

Well if the voters of India are mature please explain large volume of votes for Mayawati, Yadav, Lalu, Modi and communists to name just a few!

[riya]

The more i see Rahul Gandhi's smile the more i am worried .I don't know his smile looks very dodgy :nervous: