We cannot handle pressure?

[gloryof83]

Re: We cannot handle pressure? The problem is nobody has the balls to bring this up with SRT, fellow players, management or the board. All he needs to do is watch videos of his batting from the 90s specially the home test series against OZ and realise attack is the best form of defence.

[Bumper]

Re: We cannot handle pressure?

To say Tendulkar is mentally weak in very incorrect. We are talking of a boy who at 17 years faced the fastest and most fearsome bowlers. A mentally weak batsman cannot dismantle shane warne. A mentally weak batsman cannot dominate every bowler in the world for 15 years. A mentally weak batsman cannot dominate Australia. The problem with SRT is that he changed his game too much, instead of being attacking which is his natural game he is trying to play a safe game i.e. not take too many risks and play a long innings. This puts him in two minds and he gets out cheaply. So why did SRT change his approch? Did the team management change his role? Did the arrival of sehwag play a part? (sehwag takes over the role of aggressive opener). Or is it an attitude thing?

Good try, but poor justification. To state his success as a 17 yr old is a poor example of his mental strength tho. First of all, 17 yr olds know no fear & second, expectations from him at that time was very little. He had nothing to lose & everything to gain, in those circumstances. Not trying to undermine his talent or his performances back then, but putting the context wrt mental strength into perspective. I have already addressed the point on how he aged as a player. In the 90s, his batting talent was supreme, he could almost subconsciously negotitate pace, spin, bounce etc. This ability in him, ensured his probability for failure is low. Hence his mental weaknesses hardly surfaced. Now that his ability has waned, he looks scared everytime he walks in. Note that waning ability does not make players insecure or mentally weak, automatically. A certain Viv comes to my mind immediately, as i type that. He always exuded confidence his form notwithstanding.

A mentally weak batsman cannot dominate Australia.

TBH, the only world class bowler Tendu has truly dominated was Warne (over a period of few years). He never dominated McGrath, its almost the opposite (McGrath owned him most of the time, when it mattered). "He batted well" against the Aussies, is how i would put it. Domnination is what Lara did in 1999 or Pietersen did in the two Ashes. But none of your claims, prove that he is mentally strong.

[gloryof83]

Re: We cannot handle pressure? How many 17 year olds have lasted as long as SRT. When SRT was 17 and making his debut there were huge expectations from him, every former player was saying "he is the best talent in India". Surely you cannot last for 18 years at the highest level purley based on talent you need to be mentally strong to last that long, just ask hick, hooper & cullinan. Shane Warne is the best leg spinner ever, SRT is the ONLY batsman to have decimated him to an extent that Warne has nightmares of SRT. Even lara did NOT dominate warne to that extent. As far as the McGrath thing goes, McGrath was injured for most of Tendulkar's peak. They have faced each other more often only since 99. And if you look at SRT's test ave between 99 - 03 it still is 48.5. McGrath only had Tendulkars number in ODIs and thats typically us chasing huge totals. Again to say SRT is mentally weak is incorrect.

[Guest BossBhai]

Re: We cannot handle pressure? -- Removed on request of the user --

[Bumper]

Re: We cannot handle pressure?

How many 17 year olds have lasted as long as SRT. When SRT was 17 and making his debut there were huge expectations from him, every former player was saying "he is the best talent in India".

Whom do u think faced more pressure in the Ind-BD game ? A 17 yr old Tamim Iqbal. playing in his first ever world cup game or SRT playing in his 350+th ODI game ? It is after u make a name for yourself, the expectations go up. Your failure costs a lot. It costs you reputation, endorsements, fan following, legacy etc. Its when the stakes go up, the pressure builds up. Thats when it becomes harder to perform.

Surely you cannot last for 18 years at the highest level purley based on talent you need to be mentally strong to last that long, just ask hick, hooper & cullinan.

Once again to be clear, I never dismissed SRT's batting talent. Am only questioning his ability show up under pressure. So are u saying his 18 yr old career is full of successes ? And your examples (hooper, cullinan or hick) arent in the same class as SRT interms of talent. Lara or Ponting or a Dravid would have been a better comparison. Why is that in a 18 yr old test career, SRT does not have even one test innings a' la Dravid's 241 or Laxman's 281 or Dravid's 271 (and several other Dravid's innings), which is the single most influential innings in the test match ? Isnt that too much of a coincidence for someone who is hailed to be a top 5 batter of all time ?

Shane Warne is the best leg spinner ever, SRT is the ONLY batsman to have decimated him to an extent that Warne has nightmares of SRT. Even lara did NOT dominate warne to that extent. As far as the McGrath thing goes, McGrath was injured for most of Tendulkar's peak. They have faced each other more often only since 99. And if you look at SRT's test ave between 99 - 03 it still is 48.5. McGrath only had Tendulkars number in ODIs and thats typically us chasing huge totals. Again to say SRT is mentally weak is incorrect.

Lara has dominated Murali, who's even a tougher cookie than Warney (who has been belted by every single Indian batsmen that i can think of). I dont want to digress. This thread is about SRT's mental strength, lets keep Lara out of it. Otherwise i can see this spiral out of context. McGrath & SRT faced each other in 1999, 2001, 2003 in tests. I dont recall SRT dominating him ever. In recent ODIs (starting 1999), McGrath has had SRT's number in almost every single time it mattered.

[Guest BossBhai]

Re: We cannot handle pressure? -- Removed on request of the user --

[gloryof83]

Re: We cannot handle pressure?

Once again to be clear, I never dismissed SRT's batting talent. Am only questioning his ability show up under pressure. So are u saying his 18 yr old career is full of successes ? And your examples (hooper, cullinan or hick) arent in the same class as SRT interms of talent. Lara or Ponting or a Dravid would have been a better comparison. Why is that in a 18 yr old test career, SRT does not have even one test innings a' la Dravid's 241 or Laxman's 281 or Dravid's 271 (and several other Dravid's innings), which is the single most influential innings in the test match ? Isnt that too much of a coincidence for someone who is hailed to be a top 5 batter of all time ?

Lara, Ponting & Dravid have the mental strength which is why they have succeded at the highest level. Hooper & Hick are very talented but zero mental strength which is why they were not successful. For Laxman's 281 there was Dravid's 150, for Dravid's 241 there was Laxman's 148. SRT's 155 vs Australia @ chennai 97/98, SRT's century vs Pak @ chennai (even though we lost cannot blame it on SRT he bought us into the game and the last 4 batsmen could not score 10 runs). Through out the 90s he was the only Indian batsman to make runs overseas (until Dravid came into picture). In the 90s & SRT's prime he had no support not a single player stood up to be counted except for kumble. Cricket is a team game specially Test matches where you need to dismiss the opposition twice. For Laxman's 281 there was bajji's 15 wickets. For Dravid's 241 there were kumble & Agarkar. In the 90s every team in the world knew get SRT and you win the match. Now THAT is pressure.

Lara has dominated Murali, who's even a tougher cookie than Warney (who has been belted by every single Indian batsmen that i can think of). I dont want to digress. This thread is about SRT's mental strength, lets keep Lara out of it. Otherwise i can see this spiral out of context. McGrath & SRT faced each other in 1999, 2001, 2003 in tests. I dont recall SRT dominating him ever. In recent ODIs (starting 1999), McGrath has had SRT's number in almost every single time it mattered.

Are you saying that Warne is not the greatest leg spinner. I cannot bring up head to head stats on cricinfo but it would make sense to bowl your strike bowler against the opposition's best batsman. He make knock you around couple of times but eventually you will get is wicket. Its not only with SRT same with Lara who has been dismissed by McGrath number of times.

[Bumper]

Re: We cannot handle pressure?

Why is that in a 18 yr old test career' date=' SRT does not have even one test innings a' la Dravid's 241 or Laxman's 281 or Dravid's 271 (and several other Dravid's innings), which is the single most influential innings in the test match ?[/quote'] A influential inngs doesnt have to necessarily be a Double hundred .... in that case you an strike off the 153 made by Lara ... which is drooled upon by many here ... SRT made the 155 , 126 vs Aus which pretty much won us the match

I didnt bring up those knocks because they are double 100s, rather because they came against BIG ODDS and helped us create history. The results of these knocks, were proud moments, every Indian can boast of for years to come. We were 85/4 in Australia (where we have never won a test in recent memory) when Dravid scored his 241 (and 71 in the 2nd innings), leading us to our first victory Down Under since 1981. Laxman's 281 needs no explanation. The innings that changed the way "follow ons" are enforced in the game. Dravid's 271 again needs no explanation. 3rd test, decider. We lost Sehwag to Akhtar's first ball. 0/1. Dravid goes on to bat 2 days & wins a test (and series) almost single handedly. While SRT's 155 & 126 were good, i am sure u'd agree the pressure in these situations was no where close to the above knocks. SRT's 126 came after our openers gave a great start (123/1). SRT's 155 came after we were 115/2 (infact every bowler in this game was a no namer except Warne). The only SRT innings comparable to the ones i listed was his 136 vs Pakistan. Huge pressure, BIG opponent. But unfortunately he couldnt finish it Just to clarify once again, this thread is not about SRT's test career (tho it could unavoidably head that way), but about SRT's performance under pressure.

[cricajar]

Re: We cannot handle pressure?

To say Tendulkar is mentally weak in very incorrect. We are talking of a boy who at 17 years faced the fastest and most fearsome bowlers. A mentally weak batsman cannot dismantle shane warne. A mentally weak batsman cannot dominate every bowler in the world for 15 years. A mentally weak batsman cannot dominate Australia. The problem with SRT is that he changed his game too much, instead of being attacking which is his natural game he is trying to play a safe game i.e. not take too many risks and play a long innings. This puts him in two minds and he gets out cheaply. So why did SRT change his approch? Did the team management change his role? Did the arrival of sehwag play a part? (sehwag takes over the role of aggressive opener). Or is it an attitude thing?

I couldn't agree with you more mate. His attitude is terrilbe now, he even says that he is not the same boy he once was. So when he already admits he isn't the best, then how can he play like the best? Even Chappell started spewing this nonsense that sachin was more of a "mentor" now; I feel that in the past bowlers FEARED sachin, now they just respect him. There is a big difference.

[Bumper]

Re: We cannot handle pressure?

SRT's 155 vs Australia @ chennai 97/98, SRT's century vs Pak @ chennai (even though we lost cannot blame it on SRT he bought us into the game and the last 4 batsmen could not score 10 runs). Through out the 90s he was the only Indian batsman to make runs overseas (until Dravid came into picture). In the 90s & SRT's prime he had no support not a single player stood up to be counted except for kumble.

SRT's 155 came with support ofcourse. This is the score card: http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1997-98/AUS_IN_IND/AUS_IND_T1_06-10MAR1998.html [code:1:a81e2a60de] +NR Mongia -> 18 NS Sidhu -> 64 R Dravid -> 56 SR Tendulkar ->155 *M Azharuddin -> 64 SC Ganguly ->30 Total (4 wickets dec, 107 overs, 458 mins) 418 [/code:1:a81e2a60de] Anyways, i'll conclude by saying this: I consider beating Australia in Australia, or South Africa in South Africa or Pakistan anywhere as the proudest moments in an Indian test player's career (those who played since 90s). These are also pressure cooker situations that separate the good and the great. Unfortunately when these numerous opportunities presented themselves, SRT did not raise to the task.

[gloryof83]

Re: We cannot handle pressure?

I didnt bring up those knocks because they are double 100s, rather because they came against BIG ODDS and helped us create history. The results of these knocks, were proud moments, every Indian can boast of for years to come. We were 85/4 in Australia (where we have never won a test in recent memory) when Dravid scored his 241 (and 71 in the 2nd innings), leading us to our first victory Down Under since 1981. Laxman's 281 needs no explanation. The innings that changed the way "follow ons" are enforced in the game. Dravid's 271 again needs no explanation. 3rd test, decider. We lost Sehwag to Akhtar's first ball. 0/1. Dravid goes on to bat 2 days & wins a test (and series) almost single handedly.

Mate I agree with what you are saying in regards to these innings. They were big odds, but back in the 90s there were NO ODDS for us performing overseas. No one apart from Tendulkar managed to score runs. And you know about our bowling overseas. When SRT was in is prime (in the 90s) he never had a chance to deliver those amazing victories because he had no support. Take any overseas tour in the 90s Tendulkar was the only Indian batsman to perform. How do you expect him to win matches without support is beyond me.

I consider beating Australia in Australia, or South Africa in South Africa or Pakistan anywhere are the proudest moments in an Indian test player's career (those who played since 90s). These are also pressure cooker situations that separate the good and the great. Unfortunately when these numerous opportunities presented themselves, SRT did not raise to the task.

What were those numerous opportunities? There were almost no opportunities in the 90s to win an overseas test.

[gloryof83]

Re: We cannot handle pressure? Finally SRT in his prime had absolute no support from his team mates, he never stood a chance of winning a test for India overseas. SRT now is a shadow of his former self (since 02), this is more of an attitude thing than mental weakness. Lets agree to disagree here

[Bumper]

Re: We cannot handle pressure?

What were those numerous opportunities? There were almost no opportunities in the 90s to win an overseas test.

Why 90s? Adelaide'03, the recent SA tour (tests2 & tests3), Pak'04 (test3), Ind-Pak'05 (Kolkatta, Bangalore test), Ind-Pak'06 (Karachi test, 1st & 2nd innings) etc. The only time he played a single handed role against one of these opponents is in 1999 (Chennai test), but unfortunately we lost that game.

[cricajar]

Re: We cannot handle pressure? I think post '03 is beyond tendy's prime there...

[gloryof83]

Re: We cannot handle pressure?

What were those numerous opportunities? There were almost no opportunities in the 90s to win an overseas test.

Why 90s? Adelaide'03, the recent SA tour (tests2 & tests3), Pak'04 (test3), Ind-Pak'05 (Kolkatta, Bangalore test), Ind-Pak'06 (Karachi test, 1st & 2nd innings) etc. The only time he played a single handed role against one of these opponents is in 1999 (Chennai test), but unfortunately we lost that game.

Mate we are talking about pre 02, SRT in his prime. Sadly these days he is a shadow of his former self. Dropping him would do him a world of good. Let him play a couple of Ranji matches and see from there.

[chanakya]

Re: We cannot handle pressure? In ranji matches he will decimate the opposition. No pressure no worries. Most of the bowlers will be lining up to get spanked by him :lmao: :lmao:

[gloryof83]

Re: We cannot handle pressure?

In ranji matches he will decimate the opposition. No pressure no worries. Most of the bowlers will be lining up to get spanked by him :lmao: :lmao:

May be thats what he needs, a boost in confidence get back to the free flowing play.