Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired

[Chandan]

Re: Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired

Ravi, Most of the tracks are flat around the world for ODI cricket. I hope you remember a match in SA where 874 runs were scored in 100 overs? You've seen all the tracks in Pakistan? How about the ODI tracks in Australia? How about that Lords tracks where we had chased 325 runs? Whenever SA plays with Australia, they produce flattest of tracks in ODIs, for whatever reason! So how can you blame India here for having flat tracks for ODIs?

All you need to do is look at the trend of ODI results and check out the scores. That will tell you the story. I think India have only been able to bat full 50 overs twice or something in the last 19 ODIs overseas I have read. Do you reckon a stats as glaring as that lies?

In last 19 ODIs or so, away from home? How many of our main batsmen were batting then? In WI, we just had Dravid, Sehwag and Yuvraj. And then? Malaysia? Underprepared tracks? Then SA? Just Dravid and Sachin were playing. Rest were all newcomers, batting on such surfaces for the first time. So how can you blame that the main Indian batsmen, ie, Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag and Yuvraj have collectively failed to bat out for full 50 overs on last 19 occasions?

[King]

Re: Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired

I would say the quality and grit saw them through then. Unfortunately this quality is not in evidence for long enough and the grit is absolutely missing these days.

Ravi that Johannesburg victory took was achieved just 3 months back. So what do you mean by "these days"?

You remember what happened before and after that test don't you? Also the 5 ODIs in that series. Now the WC result against Bangladesh on a pitch that did a bit. Simply put the batting is very inconsistent and struggles particularly on pitches that assist bowling.

[King]

Re: Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired

In last 19 ODIs or so, away from home? How many of our main batsmen were batting then? In WI, we just had Dravid, Sehwag and Yuvraj. And then? Malaysia? Underprepared tracks? Then SA? Just Dravid and Sachin were playing. Rest were all newcomers, batting on such surfaces for the first time. So how can you blame that the main Indian batsmen, ie, Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag and Yuvraj have collectively failed to bat out for full 50 overs on last 19 occasions?

From whatever angle you look at it's pretty straight forward these guys can't produce runs overseas on consistent basis. The batting mainly has been Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Raina, Kaif, Yuvraj, Kaif, Dhoni and couple others. All the permutations and combinations in the batting order has failed to work. What do you make of this?

[Chandan]

Re: Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired

Simply put the batting is very inconsistent and struggles particularly on pitches that assist bowling.

I don't think any batting line-up flourishes when the pitches assist the bowlers. But as in Australia, someone or the other certainly puts his hands up to dig in. That has been lacking among Indians. You can only say that much. Even then, we all know how Aussie batting also came a cropper in the Ashes in 2005 on pitches helpful for bowlers.

[King]

Re: Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired

Simply put the batting is very inconsistent and struggles particularly on pitches that assist bowling.

I don't think any batting line-up flourishes when the pitches assist the bowlers. But as in Australia, someone or the other certainly puts his hands up to dig in. That has been lacking among Indians. You can only say that much. Even then, we all know how Aussie batting also came a cropper in the Ashes in 2005 on pitches helpful for bowlers.

I can't quite understand why you refuse to believe the batting is pretty fragile. In fact this batting has costed the World Cup super 8 spot too for India. India failed to chase 250 against Sri Lanka on a decent pitch for batting too BTW.

[Chandan]

Re: Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired I do understand that batting is fragile. But to say that it struggles in the unhelpful conditions and makes merry only on helpful condition is true for other teams also. Indian batting has failed terribly in WC. But the conditions were decent for batting vs SL. If they are known for raking up runs in such conditions, why did they fail? What was the reason? This is my enquiry!

[King]

Re: Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired

I do understand that batting is fragile. But to say that it struggles in the unhelpful conditions and makes merry only on helpful condition is true for other teams also. Indian batting has failed terribly in WC. But the conditions were decent for batting vs SL. If they are known for raking up runs in such conditions, why did they fail? What was the reason? This is my enquiry!

I did mention against Sri Lanka they had plenty of pressure and could have buckled under pressure. The same team set a world record score against Bermuda though. How can they collectively score that big one day and nothing the next? Against South Africa in South Africa I remember India was shot out for 91. I thought at first it was the first ODI and gave them benefit of doubt. The next few ODIs didn't get any better either. The scores were just above or under 150 I think for the rest of the ODI series. Come the test match they failed in the first one and the second test batting was not great but just good. Then came the last test on a good pitch for batting and they raked up over 400 runs. In the end they ensured they still lost is a different matter. What does this point to? Similarly on Pakistan tour, everyone scored big (bar Tendulkar) in the first 2 tests and the last test India showed no fight. Pakistan despite losing a lot of wickets early on came back really well. Pakistan posted huge score in the second dig if I remember well. You can clearly see the pattern. The bloated up averages are thanks to some good pitches for batting. On a tough pitch the batting comes a cropper. Look no further than the England v India test in 2006. Similar trend was evident even then.

[Chandan]

Re: Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired

Come the test match they failed in the first one and the second test batting was not great but just good. Then came the last test on a good pitch for batting and they raked up over 400 runs.

It was the 1st test that they won and lost the 2nd and 3rd. Clearly the Durban pitch was too bouncy for them but the loss in the 3rd test was inexplicable. But they at least fought till the end in both tests and SA could win after huge struggle in the last hour of the 5th day in both test. That grit was missing here in WC. So to pause and find out what has happened, we get following answers: 1. batting is fragile and failed miserably against even BD bowlers when the pitch did a bit. 2. Players suddenly lost grit. Why, is another question 3.Even Bermuda match was a pressure match but they excelled there because Bermuda bowling was too poor. Still you'll have to say that why could our bowlers not dismiss the same armature players for less than 200 when they were bowling with a mountain of runs on the board. Does this mean that bowling was not very good too? 4. The second pressure game and our batting collapsed again. Pitch was not responsible here. Nor were bowlers bowling out of the world. Why did pressure get to them?

[King]

Re: Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired Sorry yes I got it mixed up, won the first test and lost the next two. That said they scored some decent runs the minute the pitch dished up in the 3rd wasn't too bad for batting.

[King]

Re: Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired

3.Even Bermuda match was a pressure match but they excelled there because Bermuda bowling was too poor. Still you'll have to say that why could our bowlers not dismiss the same armature players for less than 200 when they were bowling with a mountain of runs on the board. Does this mean that bowling was not very good too? 4. The second pressure game and our batting collapsed again. Pitch was not responsible here. Nor were bowlers bowling out of the world. Why did pressure get to them?

Against Bermuda the pressure was relatively less. They knew in the back of the mind they could win big against Bermuda considering Bermuda were possibly the worst team in the WC. The bowlers going complacent is another story. That has happened far too often too. Despite striking early and striking several wickets Indian bowlers have failed to finish off the inning in a hurry. I have noticed this trend since about couple of years. The bowling seems to be lot better than batting though. There is some fresh blood in that department and naturally you will see them charged up every game. Still it is concerning they can't finish off the lower middle order and tail quickly enough on several occasions. Perhaps complacency is something they have to overcome? That said I have faith in the bowling more than I have in the batting at the moment. The bowling has delivered few times in test matches from my memory. They should get better with a little bit of experience as long as they don't get carried away by success. Against Sri Lanka they needed the top 3-4 batters to put about 125-150 runs on the board but we all know what we got. Murali bowled well that day and asked a lot of questions. The Sri Lanka fielding was superior and their bowling although not flashy still was good enough. Indians simply buckled under pressure once the openers and Tendulkar left in a hurry. You may remember Ganguly and Uthappa threw their wickets away. It was not hard earned. Tendulkar was of course way tentative and looked like he desperately wanted to survive few balls before getting into any kind of confidence. Rest is history as we know it.

[Anakin]

Re: Let us pause here for a minute and review what's transpired

exactly... tht was their expiration date.... wat else did u expect as a WC result? the only bright spot in indian cricket was with a differnet batch of players and Vengsarkar made sure' date=' tht brightness doesnt blind anyone...[/quote']Again, that can apply to one player, but when the same happens to the whole team barring one or two, something else is wrong.