Is This The Turning Point for Pakistan Cricket?

[riya]

Shoaib Akhtar is well past it now. He only creates problems within the team' date=' nothing else. I'm glad Pakistan have left him out.[/quote'] Pakistan won without him.

[Mr. Wicket]

They have been in doldrums for a few years. Not helped by off field distractions such as doping allegations, sectarian violence on the streets, high level assassinations, and a fierce civil war. On field, there has been little to cheer for as well. Sixth in the Test table, 4th in ODIs. Yet, positives abounded in this championship. Umer Gul, Md Amer, Saeed Ajmal, Younis' calm batting and above all, the return of the iconic Afridi. Pakistani bloggers on Cricinfo identified the final as a watershed event not just for the cricket fans but the nation, as if a distinction needed to be made. Cricket in Pakistan defines its nationhood. Remember 1992? Pakistan came back from dead there and went on to be a great side for the next five years before fading away slowly. The difference is that they were not doing exactly badly before that Cup. Will this set off a new era of excellence for that nation? They have certainly won our respect for the way they literally came in from the cold and did the job. Can they keep it?

The World Cup was a significant tournament. This was a hit and giggle showcase in a lottery format. They played four matches in the tournament against quality opposition, won two and lost two. They just won the key ones. At the end of it, this time next year another T20 World tourney will be done with, and we'll see another champion crowned. How many people are really going to remember this as some sort of significant ground-breaking epic victory? As for the Pakistani bloggers on Cricinfo, they've got green glasses firmly strapped in front of their eyes. Of course, any sort of cricketing victory these days can be lauded and cherished to the heavens and overhyped. Heck if Pakistan play a test match against Zimbabwe at home and nobody stages an attack there (because nobody would give a **** and even turn up), they'd probably write a series of odes and songs in tribute to the dawn of a glorious new era of safe cricket in Pakistan. Later this year Pakistan tour Australia. If they can win or even finish that series with an honourable draw, I'll start wondering whether there's a new era ahead. But most likely the hit-and-giggle stars like Afridi will again get found out and exposed ruthlessly there, their brave new bowling attack will get pillaged and dismantled by real stars like Phillip Hughes (50+ average this Ashes - what say?) and they'll leave trying to bend over enough to be able to lick the wounds on their asses. Just remember Dhondy; this is a country with one of the most corrupt and incompetent cricketing boards and administrators, filled with idiots who would rather point fingers and think up conspiracies from across the border rather than help the game. There is no domestic infrastructure, little to talk about among young batting talent, and other than the odd overhyped quick bowler or spinner who obviously is the next Qadir/Saqlain/Wasim/Waqar as per some idiotic fans in need of an urgent brain transplant, there's very little talent depth. Think about this: How many years does Younis have left? How much does Misbah have? How many does Yousuf have left (assuming the snake stays around and doesn't again jump ship to someone else dangling a big paycheque in his visual zone)? That is the core of Pakistani cricket. Two in decline, Younis maybe just around his peak, not getting any better and only getting older. Saeed Ajmal is also 31, and let's see if either he or this new lethal spinning Afridi can actually have some impact in a test match. There's very little there to suggest a great future for Pakistan. They've got six tests ahead in the next 12 months, three in Sri Lanka and three in Australia, to prove me wrong. I'll be shocked if they do it and this turns out to be much more than a one-off due to a lottery format tournament.

[Chandan]

That is one POV. Yet, they had the two highest wicket takers in this competition, and Afridi played sensibly to score two vital half tons when it really mattered. Younis was rock solid as usual, remember, he is still the top ranked Test bat in the world, and Md Aamer, Umer Gul and Md Asif will constitute a seriously good bowling attack along with Saeed Ajmal. Kamran Akmal is like a pint sized dynamite with the bat, albeit admittedly with poor WK skills, but with Md Yousuf to come back, a return to the halcyon days is distinctly possible. Somebody in the stadium said on a banner: "Be Afridi. Be very very Afridi". Herald or hype?

I have been very very impressed by Pakistan and the way they came back from looking extremely rusty, to win the competition! Their batting has been fragile but their bowlers made up for it as they were handful even on the bouncy Oval track and low and slow, turning Nottingham track! I just hope that this victory infuses a new life in their test team so that we can have at least one more test nation competing with the best which has been reduced to just 3 or maybe 4 in number at the moment. As you said, bowling looks superb with young Amir, Gul and Asif when he comes back. Ajmal will be the lead spinner and Afridi playing the role of bowling all-rounder. Batting needs to be strengthened and it will be when Md Yusiuf comes back. So middle order looks okay and openers are the only concern. Hopefully Pak will find them too. And then we'll once again have some quality test matches from them! The best thing is, they won't rely on Akhtar anymore to bail them out and hence eat one test spot up. All the best Pakistan!

[EnterTheVoid]

I will try and put my bias aside and analyze this victory as objectively and as concisely as I can To answer the questions posed in the original post: 1. Does this victory mark a turning point ? I'd beg to differ. Pakistan is a team that is known for being consistently inconsistent. They had a relatively easy ride to the semi - finals and dare I say, yesterday was just their day when everything, sadly, clicked. Assume for a second, a view that is contradictory to what I've said, and Pakistan were indeed the deserved winners. Now, for the skeptics amongst us who hold the view that they just got "lucky", how many opportunities will Pakistan have to prove us wrong ? Will anyone tour them at home ? How often will they play teams on countries that act as surrogate hosts ? 2. What does this victory mean ? Since the start of the year, has Pakistan made the news for anything other than mosque suicide bombings, terrorist attacks and endlessly blaming India for what are their own inadequencies ? Having said that, this victory will be seen as a welcome respite, a change, from the daily death and destruction for the battle weary public. Any views on the notion that this victory heralds a new golden age where match winners are simply picked from obscurity are naive at best and retarded at worst. It will go as far as repairing some of the wounds of the Lahore attack, but dare I say, even the most optimistic and one - eyed of followers will know deep down, that the psychological damage and the harm done will take generations to heal. 3. Didn't Pakistan make similiar noises after choking in the last t20 world cup final ? After Pakistan lost the last final in perhaps, the most excruciating of circumstances, media and past players commended their players on the courage they've shown in regrouping themselves after the death of Woolmer and the debacle of the 2007 world cup. Putting that one tournament aside, what have they achieved that is of significance since than ? If they're not fighting amongst themselves, they're fighting with other board members, doing everything in their power to alienate themselves and dissolve any shred of sympathy that people had for them. Poor results against formidable opposition were followed by cancelled tours and the final nail in the coffin, the cancellation of the 2011 world cup matches. If you were a pakistani supporter, wouldn't it hurt you to see how a country that boasts such passion for the game treated like a piece of gum stuck to the sole of your shoe ? Did any of this serve as wake up call ? Does that board, which consist of a pack of despicable thugs accept an ounce of responsibility for consequencies that arose from mistakes of their own doing ? Would you feel comfortable to be associated with these people and call them people your friends ? What is their to suggest a bright future ? P.S. Whoever did that banner had a sense of humour :D:

[King Tendulkar]

Its only 20/20. Lottery cricket. No point analysing it to closley.

[youngindia]

Remember 1992? Pakistan came back from dead there and went on to be a great side for the next five years before fading away slowly. The difference is that they were not doing exactly badly before that Cup. ?

they are a bowling side really and will remain a bowling side. if you look at their batting lineup,lots of non specialist batsmen but their bowlers have kept the scores to minmal damage, that was the secret to their victory. its because they bowl the fuller length very well and it is very important in atleast 12 out of 20 overs in t20. some of teams like the nonasian teams have problems with afridi. as for the upcoming talent they have, i have little idea. but their batsmen are brought up on horrible loose techniques.too many like nazir,yasir,farhat have come and faded. i would expect more of the same. A system does not change overnight. loose but agressive batting & reliable bowling it the shorters forms. but they are nowhere near the quality side they had in the 90's with several matchwinners. even then ,bowlers were the lynch pins.

[ritwik]

The World Cup was a significant tournament. This was a hit and giggle showcase in a lottery format. They played four matches in the tournament against quality opposition, won two and lost two. They just won the key ones. At the end of it, this time next year another T20 World tourney will be done with, and we'll see another champion crowned. How many people are really going to remember this as some sort of significant ground-breaking epic victory? As for the Pakistani bloggers on Cricinfo, they've got green glasses firmly strapped in front of their eyes. Of course, any sort of cricketing victory these days can be lauded and cherished to the heavens and overhyped. Heck if Pakistan play a test match against Zimbabwe at home and nobody stages an attack there (because nobody would give a **** and even turn up), they'd probably write a series of odes and songs in tribute to the dawn of a glorious new era of safe cricket in Pakistan. Later this year Pakistan tour Australia. If they can win or even finish that series with an honourable draw, I'll start wondering whether there's a new era ahead. But most likely the hit-and-giggle stars like Afridi will again get found out and exposed ruthlessly there, their brave new bowling attack will get pillaged and dismantled by real stars like Phillip Hughes (50+ average this Ashes - what say?) and they'll leave trying to bend over enough to be able to lick the wounds on their asses. Just remember Dhondy; this is a country with one of the most corrupt and incompetent cricketing boards and administrators, filled with idiots who would rather point fingers and think up conspiracies from across the border rather than help the game. There is no domestic infrastructure, little to talk about among young batting talent, and other than the odd overhyped quick bowler or spinner who obviously is the next Qadir/Saqlain/Wasim/Waqar as per some idiotic fans in need of an urgent brain transplant, there's very little talent depth. Think about this: How many years does Younis have left? How much does Misbah have? How many does Yousuf have left (assuming the snake stays around and doesn't again jump ship to someone else dangling a big paycheque in his visual zone)? That is the core of Pakistani cricket. Two in decline, Younis maybe just around his peak, not getting any better and only getting older. Saeed Ajmal is also 31, and let's see if either he or this new lethal spinning Afridi can actually have some impact in a test match. There's very little there to suggest a great future for Pakistan. They've got six tests ahead in the next 12 months, three in Sri Lanka and three in Australia, to prove me wrong. I'll be shocked if they do it and this turns out to be much more than a one-off due to a lottery format tournament.

Top post :hatsoff:

[EnterTheVoid]

These mofos have a short memory. I am sure they were crying and pissing buckets for weeks after Misbah's scoop We still hold the bragging rights

[hassan_113]

I am not a person anymore to GLOAT in victory....some India and Pakistan fans wind each other up in victory/defeat- personally, I'm past that stage and actually feel humbled and relaxed with the victory of Pakistan. I hope that those Pakistan fans and a lot of the fans here on ICF can reach the place I am at now...gracious in defeat, humble in victory. Enjoy the moment but don't go over the top also. In some ways, it feels weird to be past the going crazy over winning point.

[Macj]

Pakistan played well no doubting that, but what this means? It means little really in the bigger scheme of things. It means that Pakistan truly have a home in England. It means Pakistan have a bigger voice in telling countries to play there. It means PCB coffers will flow again... though not for long. It means Pakistan cricketers will be back in the spotlight. But in the cricketing history this victory is just a blip, beating a top tier test team in a full series is still a far away dream.Make no mistake about it, Pakistan will not host a test series against a major side for the next 10 years.

[hassan_113]

I think provided Pakistan have a fully fit and firing team, England v Pakistan next year, scheduled to be 4 tests, will be very exciting indeed!

[CricketGirl]

I think its been a great acheivement but i dont think its a turning point they played well they won the cup - simple!!

[Guest Hiten.]

The funny thing is that Qadir Khan resigned after Pakistan had lost a couple of games at the beginning of the tour. What is he going to do now? :hysterical:

:hmmmm: Abdul Qadir :hahaha:

[Max_Cady]

no. they will continue to be an average team in odis and test because their players arent that good prove me wrong?????//

[King Tendulkar]

This will actually set pakistan back a few years. As some serioulsy pants players will be continued to be picked in tests and odis despite them being awful. Two such players are Afridi and Akmal! Afridi is awful and will probably still now ridiculously be selected for tests cos of a few flukey 20/20 lottery knocks. Akmal could not catch a cold but has probably firmed his position for next decade cos of lottery win!

[Dhondy]

The World Cup was a significant tournament. This was a hit and giggle showcase in a lottery format. They played four matches in the tournament against quality opposition, won two and lost two. They just won the key ones. At the end of it, this time next year another T20 World tourney will be done with, and we'll see another champion crowned. How many people are really going to remember this as some sort of significant ground-breaking epic victory? As for the Pakistani bloggers on Cricinfo, they've got green glasses firmly strapped in front of their eyes. Of course, any sort of cricketing victory these days can be lauded and cherished to the heavens and overhyped. Heck if Pakistan play a test match against Zimbabwe at home and nobody stages an attack there (because nobody would give a **** and even turn up), they'd probably write a series of odes and songs in tribute to the dawn of a glorious new era of safe cricket in Pakistan. Later this year Pakistan tour Australia. If they can win or even finish that series with an honourable draw, I'll start wondering whether there's a new era ahead. But most likely the hit-and-giggle stars like Afridi will again get found out and exposed ruthlessly there, their brave new bowling attack will get pillaged and dismantled by real stars like Phillip Hughes (50+ average this Ashes - what say?) and they'll leave trying to bend over enough to be able to lick the wounds on their asses. Just remember Dhondy; this is a country with one of the most corrupt and incompetent cricketing boards and administrators, filled with idiots who would rather point fingers and think up conspiracies from across the border rather than help the game. There is no domestic infrastructure, little to talk about among young batting talent, and other than the odd overhyped quick bowler or spinner who obviously is the next Qadir/Saqlain/Wasim/Waqar as per some idiotic fans in need of an urgent brain transplant, there's very little talent depth. Think about this: How many years does Younis have left? How much does Misbah have? How many does Yousuf have left (assuming the snake stays around and doesn't again jump ship to someone else dangling a big paycheque in his visual zone)? That is the core of Pakistani cricket. Two in decline, Younis maybe just around his peak, not getting any better and only getting older. Saeed Ajmal is also 31, and let's see if either he or this new lethal spinning Afridi can actually have some impact in a test match. There's very little there to suggest a great future for Pakistan. They've got six tests ahead in the next 12 months, three in Sri Lanka and three in Australia, to prove me wrong. I'll be shocked if they do it and this turns out to be much more than a one-off due to a lottery format tournament.

Thal, I must point out that some of the premise of your post and others in this thread is incorrect. 1. Afridi is a hit and giggle star. Yes, and Pakistan recognise him as such. Which is why he hasn't been selected for the Tests against SL. He will never go to Australia as a Test player again. He was a specialist, brought in for the 20-20. He'll again figure in the Champions trophy and probably do equally well there. Strictly horses for courses. The much derided selectors know their Test players from ODI specialists. No place for Shehzab Hussain either. 2. As Ali pointed out, Shoaib Akhtar is no longer part of Pakistan's plans in any form of cricket. He has been left out of the Test side for SL. 3. Thal, Younis at 31, and Yousuf at 33 are old. But so are Sachin, Dravid & Laxman. If Pakistan is on the downslide because of their ageing players, I'd love to hear your opinion of India. 4. To those who derided Kamran Akmal, IMO he is the most nerveless, most fearsome, match turning WK batsman in the world right now. Amazing talent, married with an utterly fearless temparament. we should know. We've suffered enough at his hands. Rubbish WK, but no worse than Matt Prior. 5. No comment on the returning Md Asif? How big a factor is he going to be for the Aussie tour?

[Mr. Wicket]

Thal, I must point out that some of the premise of your post and others in this thread is incorrect. 1. Afridi is a hit and giggle star. Yes, and Pakistan recognise him as such. Which is why he hasn't been selected for the Tests against SL. He will never go to Australia as a Test player again. He was a specialist, brought in for the 20-20. He'll again figure in the Champions trophy and probably do equally well there. Strictly horses for courses. The much derided selectors know their Test players from ODI specialists. No place for Shehzab Hussain either. 2. As Ali pointed out, Shoaib Akhtar is no longer part of Pakistan's plans in any form of cricket. He has been left out of the Test side for SL. 3. Thal, Younis at 31, and Yousuf at 33 are old. But so are Sachin, Dravid & Laxman. If Pakistan is on the downslide because of their ageing players, I'd love to hear your opinion of India.

Fair point. I do notice his absence (and Shehzaab's too) from the test squad just named for Sri Lanka. But I still do feel Pakistan's batting lineup is generally brittle and not up there when test cricket is concerned. Yousuf is almost 35, suffering from back issues and his game's deteriorating. A not-too-bold prediction: if you think Ponting's decline in the last year+ has been eye-opening, watch this man. That loose footwork, the overbalance outside off stump, the tendency to play around the pads - as the eyes and reflexes start to go, those will all be hallmarks of a dry run in the next year or so. Younis is the only big name left, and Malik/Misbah simply aren't that good and consistent in tests. But the big difference in India is in the youth circuit. If you go back a decade, India and Pakistan always used to dominate the youth circuit tournaments, particularly the World Cup. That's changing now and dramatically so. Pakistan haven't produced many good young players in a long time - the last new youngsters they pushed out were flat track bullies like Farhat, Hameed and Taufeeq, and look what happened to them all. Butt was a minor success, but when you see their showings in the recent U19 WC - they got slaughtered a number of times by even half-decent bowling attacks. Against weaker teams their bowlers did fine, but the batsmen still struggled - and against even the slightest sight of swing, their lineups went to pieces against NZ and South Africa's youth teams. The youth circuit in Pakistan is barren when batsmen are concerned. There's almost nobody, Shehzaad the slogger is the one lone prospect, and this is the big difference with India. Yes, Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman are aging. But Pujara and Rahane are two youngsters with excellent techniques developing very well in the domestic circuit and look like real test batsmen in the making. Rohit and Raina have their flaws, but are young enough and have enough exposure and time ahead that it's very possible they can work on those flaws and improve their games. And there are other kids like Tanmay Srivastava and Abhinav Mukund who could also be very fine test cricketers. India, at the end of it, still has batsmen who can be very solid test players emerging in the youth circuit. Pakistan doesn't. That's the big difference - Pakistan has nobody in their domestic circuit who the selectors can turn to, aside from tried-and-tested-and-tried-and-retested failures like Farhat and friends. Why else are selectors picking a guy like Abdul Razzaq, jack of all trades these days, for test cricket? India can at least look forward. There's talent, a lot of potential and good exposure now to youngsters.

4. To those who derided Kamran Akmal, IMO he is the most nerveless, most fearsome, match turning WK batsman in the world right now. Amazing talent, married with an utterly fearless temparament. we should know. We've suffered enough at his hands. Rubbish WK, but no worse than Matt Prior. 5. No comment on the returning Md Asif? How big a factor is he going to be for the Aussie tour?

By 'WK batsman', do you mean batsman masquerading as a wicketkeeper? Akmal is a gutsy and fearless batsman, no doubt about it. But this man is not a keeper, he's in the league of pretenders and jokers like Deep Dasgupta and Matt Prior. (Pakistan would do well to pick him purely as a batsman though and pick his younger brother as a pure keeper.) And on 5... returning Asif? Where? He wasn't named in the test squad. And even if he comes back, I'm sure it'll just be a matter of time before he gets himself into some other trouble. Maybe this time it'll be a cold prescription from his hakim.

[Bumper]

I didnt get to watch the finals, so am not qualified to comment on Pak's on field performance. But a quick peek at the tournament results suggest that Pakistan won the tourney by just winning the games that mattered. Overall Srilanka and South Africa were the better teams. No discredit though, a world cup victory is certainly not something you can brush aside. This victory will definitely be a turning point for Pak cricket, not that this will suddenly make Pak a ferocious test side, just that it injects some much needed confidence the team has been lacking due to numerous scandals and cricket isolation resulting from its country's instability However its not straight forward to deduce that success in T20 format will translate to much in the other two main formats of the game: ODIs and Tests. WI won the ICC CT several years ago, but its form did not improve significantly in other forms of the game, because WI as a team was essentially cr@p. They had some brilliant individual players who were capable of surprising any opponent, but lacked the consistency to be a seriously good side. With Razzaq, MoYo & Asif returning and Afridi hitting form (dont know how long it will last), Pak's ODI team definitely has better days to look forward to, but I expect Pakistan to remain an inconsistent side that is only capable of pulling off a surprise once in a while. (Pak has struggled to be consistent with far better sides in the past). In Tests, Pak is nowhere near the top sides to be reckoned a serious force. I'm also not a big believer of T20 being a true reflection of a team's cricketing prowess. Not saying this because Pak won it, I didnt read much into India's world cup victory either. Remember -- this is a format in which a team like Australia went out in the first round. Also look at some of our past T20 stars: Uthappa, Joginder Sharma (in the last world cup), Abhishek Nayar, Asnodkar (IPL 2008). Where were they then ? Where are they now ? The nature of T20 is such -- it can quickly make heroes out of zeroes and vice versa. In short, this is definitely the much needed morale booster Pak cricket needed. This will keep them afloat for a while. But Pak cricket needs some serious victories in real cricket (ODIs and Tests) to be reckoned a good side.

[Mamu]

The World Cup was a significant tournament. This was a hit and giggle showcase in a lottery format. They played four matches in the tournament against quality opposition, won two and lost two. They just won the key ones. At the end of it, this time next year another T20 World tourney will be done with, and we'll see another champion crowned. How many people are really going to remember this as some sort of significant ground-breaking epic victory? As for the Pakistani bloggers on Cricinfo, they've got green glasses firmly strapped in front of their eyes. Of course, any sort of cricketing victory these days can be lauded and cherished to the heavens and overhyped. Heck if Pakistan play a test match against Zimbabwe at home and nobody stages an attack there (because nobody would give a **** and even turn up), they'd probably write a series of odes and songs in tribute to the dawn of a glorious new era of safe cricket in Pakistan. Later this year Pakistan tour Australia. If they can win or even finish that series with an honourable draw, I'll start wondering whether there's a new era ahead. But most likely the hit-and-giggle stars like Afridi will again get found out and exposed ruthlessly there, their brave new bowling attack will get pillaged and dismantled by real stars like Phillip Hughes (50+ average this Ashes - what say?) and they'll leave trying to bend over enough to be able to lick the wounds on their asses. Just remember Dhondy; this is a country with one of the most corrupt and incompetent cricketing boards and administrators, filled with idiots who would rather point fingers and think up conspiracies from across the border rather than help the game. There is no domestic infrastructure, little to talk about among young batting talent, and other than the odd overhyped quick bowler or spinner who obviously is the next Qadir/Saqlain/Wasim/Waqar as per some idiotic fans in need of an urgent brain transplant, there's very little talent depth. Think about this: How many years does Younis have left? How much does Misbah have? How many does Yousuf have left (assuming the snake stays around and doesn't again jump ship to someone else dangling a big paycheque in his visual zone)? That is the core of Pakistani cricket. Two in decline, Younis maybe just around his peak, not getting any better and only getting older. Saeed Ajmal is also 31, and let's see if either he or this new lethal spinning Afridi can actually have some impact in a test match. There's very little there to suggest a great future for Pakistan. They've got six tests ahead in the next 12 months, three in Sri Lanka and three in Australia, to prove me wrong. I'll be shocked if they do it and this turns out to be much more than a one-off due to a lottery format tournament.

What on the earth were you smoking to even state that ?? Dude it is Pakis we were talking about -- who have not managed to NOT LOSE a TEST MATCH in 1 DECADE which is 10 LONG YEARS. A Record that is just as abysmal as Bangaldesh and Zimbabwe (if that). They have lost EVERY SINGLE TEST MATCH -- NOT EVEN MANAGE TO DRAW -- A SINGLE TEST MATCH -- against Australia in 10 Years. And I will not even get into their Sharjah Encore !

[Dhondy]

Hats off to those who read the script correctly. Thal, Bumps, others, very well done.