Has there been a GREATER bowler than GD Mcgrath ?

[Rajiv]

McWarne was way better? I hope I didn't answer wrong? this was about greatest bowler right

[patriot]

Besides' date=' while both were great new ball bowlers, I think Wasim was more effective with the old ball. He could come up with brilliant spells with any kind of ball on any kind of surface.[/quote'] Boss, have you seen Mcgrath's test record on Indian surfaces ? His test wickets in India have come at a better average ( 21.30 vs 24.88 ) and at a better strike rate ( 56.9 vs 59.4) than Kumble. RPO conceded = 2.24. When you are that miserly against the famed Indian batting line up in their den , I suppose that doesn't leave much room for argument. Theres no way he could have been that ruthless without being good with the old ball. One particular delivery I cannot forget is, where he takes a good time to polish the old ball and then comes up with : o-Je0CDKH-c

[Dhondy]

Wasim & McGrath mentioned in the same breath as new ball bowlers? Wasim wasn't even in the same street as the great man. In fact, nobody in history was. McGrath's record with the new ball is unmatched by any bowler in the modern era. Only Donald came close. Have a look at this. Wasim had 48, 56 and 28 dismissals against numbers 1, 2 & 3 respectively. That's 132 top order scalps,or 31.9% of his wickets. If you include the number 4 batsmen, that proportion rises to 39.4%. McGrath? Seventy-seven, 78 and 70 dismissals at the same positions. That's 225 dismissals- fully 40% of his dismissals. If you include the number 4 batsman, that figure rises to 50.1%- half of his scalps. Wasim reaped the bulk of his wickets against tailenders. From batsmen 7 through till 11, he amassed 181dismissals- 43.7% of his victims- a veritable lower order killer, who simply didn't have the nous to handle his reverse swing. McGrath's corresponding metric is 186 wickets, or 33% of his victims. Still not convinced? Look at the top 10 scalps of Wasim through his career. Here, have a look. Srikkanth, Ambrose, Grant Flower, Courtney Walsh, Malcolm Marshall, Ranatunga, Azharuddin, Michael Slater, Ian Bishop and Guy Whittall. Fill you with awe? Now look at McGrath's top ten. Atherton, Lara, Jimmy Adams, Stuart Campbell, Alec Stewart, Mark Butcher, Nasser Hussain, Gary Kirsten, Stephen Fleming and Jacques Kallis. See the difference? What about their records against the very best batsmen of their generation? Wasim played 7 Tests against Tendulkar, got him out once (Tests required for one dismissal or T/D= 7), 7 against Lara, got him twice (T/D=3.5), 3 against Ponting, got him once (T/D=3). McGrath featured in 9 Tests against Tendulkar, got him 6 times (T/D=1.5), and in 24 Tests against Lara, getting him out 15 times (T/D=1.6). It is a myth too that Wasim fared equally well on all pitches. He averaged 39 in South Africa, and made no impression on them at all. McGrath's worst record was away in Pakistan, where he averaged 31. McGrath is the highest ranked bowler ever. He was top bowler in the world on 42 occasions that the rankings were published (closest rival Ambrose with 34). Wasim? Through a career that spanned 17 years, he didn't top the rankings once. Not once. During 9 of these years, he was McGrath's contemporary.

[patriot]

[ame=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3519685864108775358]Cricket: Ashes Montage[/ame] Just love this clip 2.12 to 2.20 - Mcgrath's typical unplayable wicket taking deliveries.

[Rajiv]

Vow, that so comprehensive Dhondy It must be accurate if you did it, I guess its the charismatic personality of Wasim which made some of us think that he was better But again, its the case of whom you enjoyed watching most...I'd pick Wasim again but the numbers suggest otherwise

[Mr. Wicket]

It's as Gambit said; McGrath came across as an incredibly focused, intense person with little in terms of charisma or flamboyance and thus less appeal to the casual fan. Akram was flamboyant, magical at his best, far more extravagant than McGrath who in contrast was a sniper to any batsman. As a result far more people place Akram on a pedestal ahead of McGrath and other, better bowlers, despite McGrath being simply peerless in the game.

[Dhondy]

It's as Gambit said; McGrath came across as an incredibly focused, intense person with little in terms of charisma or flamboyance and thus less appeal to the casual fan. Akram was flamboyant, magical at his best, far more extravagant than McGrath who in contrast was a sniper to any batsman. As a result far more people place Akram on a pedestal ahead of McGrath and other, better bowlers, despite McGrath being simply peerless in the game.

It also helps to have a huge prpaganda machine behind you, a base of fanatical fans who quite clearly will never have it so good again and like to look back every so often as they wallow in their present misery.

[DomainK]

Wasim & McGrath mentioned in the same breath as new ball bowlers? Wasim wasn't even in the same street as the great man. In fact, nobody in history was. McGrath's record with the new ball is unmatched by any bowler in the modern era. Only Donald came close. Have a look at this. Wasim had 48, 56 and 28 dismissals against numbers 1, 2 & 3 respectively. That's 132 top order scalps,or 31.9% of his wickets. If you include the number 4 batsmen, that proportion rises to 39.4%. McGrath? Seventy-seven, 78 and 70 dismissals at the same positions. That's 225 dismissals- fully 40% of his dismissals. If you include the number 4 batsman, that figure rises to 50.1%- half of his scalps. Wasim reaped the bulk of his wickets against tailenders. From batsmen 7 through till 11, he amassed 181dismissals- 43.7% of his victims- a veritable lower order killer, who simply didn't have the nous to handle his reverse swing. McGrath's corresponding metric is 186 wickets, or 33% of his victims. Still not convinced? Look at the top 10 scalps of Wasim through his career. Here, have a look. Srikkanth, Ambrose, Grant Flower, Courtney Walsh, Malcolm Marshall, Ranatunga, Azharuddin, Michael Slater, Ian Bishop and Guy Whittall. Fill you with awe? Now look at McGrath's top ten. Atherton, Lara, Jimmy Adams, Stuart Campbell, Alec Stewart, Mark Butcher, Nasser Hussain, Gary Kirsten, Stephen Fleming and Jacques Kallis. See the difference? What about their records against the very best batsmen of their generation? Wasim played 7 Tests against Tendulkar, got him out once (Tests required for one dismissal or T/D= 7), 7 against Lara, got him twice (T/D=3.5), 3 against Ponting, got him once (T/D=3). McGrath featured in 9 Tests against Tendulkar, got him 6 times (T/D=1.5), and in 24 Tests against Lara, getting him out 15 times (T/D=1.6). It is a myth too that Wasim fared equally well on all pitches. He averaged 39 in South Africa, and made no impression on them at all. McGrath's worst record was away in Pakistan, where he averaged 31. McGrath is the highest ranked bowler ever. He was top bowler in the world on 42 occasions that the rankings were published (closest rival Ambrose with 34). Wasim? Through a career that spanned 17 years, he didn't top the rankings once. Not once. During 9 of these years, he was McGrath's contemporary.

Overwhelming. Brilliantly composed. I change my opinion.

[Bradman99]

Wasim & McGrath mentioned in the same breath as new ball bowlers? Wasim wasn't even in the same street as the great man. In fact, nobody in history was. McGrath's record with the new ball is unmatched by any bowler in the modern era. Only Donald came close. Have a look at this. Wasim had 48, 56 and 28 dismissals against numbers 1, 2 & 3 respectively. That's 132 top order scalps,or 31.9% of his wickets. If you include the number 4 batsmen, that proportion rises to 39.4%. McGrath? Seventy-seven, 78 and 70 dismissals at the same positions. That's 225 dismissals- fully 40% of his dismissals. If you include the number 4 batsman, that figure rises to 50.1%- half of his scalps. Wasim reaped the bulk of his wickets against tailenders. From batsmen 7 through till 11, he amassed 181dismissals- 43.7% of his victims- a veritable lower order killer, who simply didn't have the nous to handle his reverse swing. McGrath's corresponding metric is 186 wickets, or 33% of his victims. Still not convinced? Look at the top 10 scalps of Wasim through his career. Here, have a look. Srikkanth, Ambrose, Grant Flower, Courtney Walsh, Malcolm Marshall, Ranatunga, Azharuddin, Michael Slater, Ian Bishop and Guy Whittall. Fill you with awe? Now look at McGrath's top ten. Atherton, Lara, Jimmy Adams, Stuart Campbell, Alec Stewart, Mark Butcher, Nasser Hussain, Gary Kirsten, Stephen Fleming and Jacques Kallis. See the difference? What about their records against the very best batsmen of their generation? Wasim played 7 Tests against Tendulkar, got him out once (Tests required for one dismissal or T/D= 7), 7 against Lara, got him twice (T/D=3.5), 3 against Ponting, got him once (T/D=3). McGrath featured in 9 Tests against Tendulkar, got him 6 times (T/D=1.5), and in 24 Tests against Lara, getting him out 15 times (T/D=1.6). It is a myth too that Wasim fared equally well on all pitches. He averaged 39 in South Africa, and made no impression on them at all. McGrath's worst record was away in Pakistan, where he averaged 31. McGrath is the highest ranked bowler ever. He was top bowler in the world on 42 occasions that the rankings were published (closest rival Ambrose with 34). Wasim? Through a career that spanned 17 years, he didn't top the rankings once. Not once. During 9 of these years, he was McGrath's contemporary.

What a post! I challenge anyone to argue with this guy!

[THX_1138]

no doubt he was a great bowler but what was missing was the fear factor which a waqar or ambrose had

waqar had no intimidation... a 5 wicket haul here or there on fast pitches hardly made him lethal or fearsome... the whole waqar was a tormentor is a pakistani consolation for the fact that wqar played less than a third of all potential test matches he cold have been involved in.

[King Tendulkar]

Mcgrath is a legend. But there are rivals who are as good if not better IMO. MARSHALL was the daddy and will always be. The god of fast bowlers. Also in modern times Ambrose was just as good as Mcgrath

[retterimp]

its stupid to put wasim on the same pedestal as mcgrath. although wasim is a favorite for a lot of ppl due to his magical presence, no one should deny the efficiency and invinicibility of mcgrath. a lot of ppl have already posted good stats above showing his close to perfection execution and I dont think, except for ambrose, any one comes close to him in terms of pure statistical ownage in this era. however wasim will remain my favorite. in order to understand this, think about why warne is considered a greater spinner even though murali has always been better. sadly its about perception and image.

[rahuliverpool]

Brilliant post, Dhondy. Absolutely glorious. I don't mean to sound kiddish but I based my opinion on this subject a long time back when the greatest batsman of this era was asked this question. SRT's answer was Glenn Mcgrath.

[THX_1138]

Ha ha... the prominent scalps in Wasim's tally were Ambrose, Walsh, Marshall, Bishop... i fancy my chances against those batting buffoons.

[patriot]

Wow kya baat hai !..that's some thorough investigative work by Dhondy.Not sure where Dhondy gets the ratings that show Mcgrath as No.1 though. I don't believe in these silly player ratings, but so far as I know among Mcgrath's contemporaries Muralitharan always seemed to hold the No1. spot in the ICC ratings for the longest time. The highest ever ICC ratings: http://www.iccreliancerankings.com/alltime/test/bowling/ I think that what probably makes Wasim Akram the sentimental favorite was the " glamour " involved in his type of bowling that made it more appealing compared to Mcgrath's routine bowling. Credit must also be given to Akram for battling a high degree of diabetes for most of his active career.

[Mamu]

Wasim & McGrath mentioned in the same breath as new ball bowlers? Wasim wasn't even in the same street as the great man. In fact, nobody in history was. McGrath's record with the new ball is unmatched by any bowler in the modern era. Only Donald came close. Have a look at this. Wasim had 48, 56 and 28 dismissals against numbers 1, 2 & 3 respectively. That's 132 top order scalps,or 31.9% of his wickets. If you include the number 4 batsmen, that proportion rises to 39.4%. McGrath? Seventy-seven, 78 and 70 dismissals at the same positions. That's 225 dismissals- fully 40% of his dismissals. If you include the number 4 batsman, that figure rises to 50.1%- half of his scalps. Wasim reaped the bulk of his wickets against tailenders. From batsmen 7 through till 11, he amassed 181dismissals- 43.7% of his victims- a veritable lower order killer, who simply didn't have the nous to handle his reverse swing. McGrath's corresponding metric is 186 wickets, or 33% of his victims. Still not convinced? Look at the top 10 scalps of Wasim through his career. Here, have a look. Srikkanth, Ambrose, Grant Flower, Courtney Walsh, Malcolm Marshall, Ranatunga, Azharuddin, Michael Slater, Ian Bishop and Guy Whittall. Fill you with awe? Now look at McGrath's top ten. Atherton, Lara, Jimmy Adams, Stuart Campbell, Alec Stewart, Mark Butcher, Nasser Hussain, Gary Kirsten, Stephen Fleming and Jacques Kallis. See the difference? What about their records against the very best batsmen of their generation? Wasim played 7 Tests against Tendulkar, got him out once (Tests required for one dismissal or T/D= 7), 7 against Lara, got him twice (T/D=3.5), 3 against Ponting, got him once (T/D=3). McGrath featured in 9 Tests against Tendulkar, got him 6 times (T/D=1.5), and in 24 Tests against Lara, getting him out 15 times (T/D=1.6). It is a myth too that Wasim fared equally well on all pitches. He averaged 39 in South Africa, and made no impression on them at all. McGrath's worst record was away in Pakistan, where he averaged 31. McGrath is the highest ranked bowler ever. He was top bowler in the world on 42 occasions that the rankings were published (closest rival Ambrose with 34). Wasim? Through a career that spanned 17 years, he didn't top the rankings once. Not once. During 9 of these years, he was McGrath's contemporary.

First you say Very Best Batsman and then you meniton Tendulkar. The people who mention Wasim consider Inzy, Anwar and Zaheer Abbas to be better than Tendulkar. Did you forget?

[Max_Cady]

in odis, i always thought donald and warne were better bowlers. they bowled game breaking spells with incredible regularity and could dominate the best batsmen. tendulkar usually had the measure of mcgrath in odis but found donald harder to face, hence the weaker record vs sa compared to aus of course, in test cricket, he is da bestest niggah dat eva bowled a cricket ball.

[hassan_113]

McGrath was stunning in his execution. Towards the end of his career, he operated at 78-81 mph but before that he was a 84-87 mph bowler e.g. 1999 World Cup. I remember in the final on a bouncy wicket, he was simply unplayable. His spell v England in 2005 was stunning as was 1997. Wasim was a magician but I think when he was slightly younger he tried to strive for really quick pace and I often saw him bowl some pretty bad deliveries. I think with time though he became a better all-round package. Different types of bowlers, both great.

[rainy day]

The people who mention Wasim consider Inzy, Anwar and Zaheer Abbas to be better than Tendulkar. Did you forget?

I guess the irony of your post is that Saeed Anwar is statistically the best batsman against Mcgrath.

[Mamu]

I guess the irony of your post is that Saeed Anwar is statistically the best batsman against Mcgrath.

That was a just a general dig. More power to him if indeed he has better stats than SRT against McGrath. I am sure something similar to could be said about Laxman against Warne. BTW I do hold Anwar in high esteem myself, but comparing against SRT would be a whole different matter. Dhondy :- BTW I do consider Wasim to be the best bowler in ODIs closely followed by Garner. Am I right in my thinking or do you have stats to prove otherwise.