Guest Gunner Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Excellent question' date=' let me try to explain myself. If a person views sex as a purely recreational activity (i.e, roams the night clubs every night looking for some action or frequently [b']pays a visit to the local ‘red-light’ area), I don’t see how there’s any difference between him and say a drug addict or an alcohol addict. After all, both of them are just succumbing uncontrollably to their temptations. Only difference is the pleasure they derive from those activities are slightly different. And what sets apart humans from animals is our ability to show restraint. And from an ideological point of view, I believe there’s great joy satisfaction to be found through restraint. Thus, I said what I said. 1) Paying for sex is a different discussion. It is irrelevant here. 2) Not quite, viewing sex as a recreational activity is not equal to addiction. I play snooker as a recreational activity would you term it addiction? This argument does not hold water. A recreational activity is indulged in when you are in the mood for it not that you need it all the time otherwise it would not be recreational anymore. 3) That is quite really wrong. 4) The idea of restraint was first thrust down our throats through the Torah and the old testament. It was a means of controlling people. A concept which is alien to most of the planet and completely unnatural. If your belief in restraint is based on religious values, I have nothing further to say.
CricketGirl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Yeah' date=' stay away from open relationships. You're just gonna end up with a lot of heartache & some seriously screwed up people.[/quote'] :agree: can i take this opportunity to thank all the lovely ladies for participating in this thread though unfortunately we are out numbered by the boys in here but we have made our views apparent!!
CricketGirl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 1) Paying for sex is a different discussion. It is irrelevant here. 2) Not quite, viewing sex as a recreational activity is not equal to addiction. I play snooker as a recreational activity would you term it addiction? This argument does not hold water. A recreational activity is indulged in when you are in the mood for it not that you need it all the time otherwise it would not be recreational anymore. 3) That is quite really wrong. 4) The idea of restraint was first thrust down our throats through the Torah and the old testament. It was a means of controlling people. A concept which is alien to most of the planet and completely unnatural. If your belief in restraint is based on religious values, I have nothing further to say. women who make a conscious decision to refrain from such activities shouldnt be patronised as being "deprived, unnatural etc" its not pressure its a conscious decision
Guest Gunner Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 It changes every generation if not every few years. 30-40 years ago seeing your husband before marriage was not acceptable, then till the 80s females had a little say , then love marriage was a taboo and now in some cities even live in relationship is considered ok. The funny thing that I see every now and then is that people from my generation would say "yaar I dont want to raise my kids in Aus/US else they wont have the same values.. they wont take care of us when we get old ". What they forget is that they themselves are mistaken when they consider that they have the same values. 99% of NRIs leave their parents in India , spend very little time with them but want their kids to look after their parents, why ? Most of my friends got married inter-caste or some even inter religion but the thought of their daughter marrying an American is scary. Why ? People need to learn to accept change. My father lived in a village for first 18 years of his life , I grew up in small cities in UP till I was 16 and then lived in Delhi and now I live overseas. So I want my kids to follow what my father saw/followed in a village or what I saw/followed in cities like Meerut , dehradun or Delhi or like how most people live in Melbourne ? I will follow what my parents did and that was to support kids , dont tell them what to do but yes guide them about wrong things in life. Excellent post desi. You have summarised what I have been trying to explain over 3 hrs to CG and gang. We are constantly evolving and changing. If morals are something which change from generation to the next and from person to person, then clearly there is no such thing as morals. It is a personal code. On this point anyone can follow whatever they want.
Guest Gunner Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Hi guys its been a long time since I logged in, missed a lot i guess. Morality is a very tricky subject, premarital sex is taboo for many and there are people who think its fine. A girl or boy having premarital sex is no less a human being than the so called pure ones. In India its a lack of opportunity rather than restraint that stops many from premarital sex. Coming to gunner's question on sex as a recreational tool, well having sex just for the recreational part is quite different from having sex with someone you truly love and care for, the phrase used in this instance is making love. So sex can never be looked from a narrow view point of recreation.. Sorry you entirely missed my point. I said sex is also a recreational activity.
Guest Gunner Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 :alienbooty: A long time ago, while travelling from Delhi to Guwahati on Rajdhani express, I heard a Bihari man say, "Verginity" is not dignity, it is lack of opportunity :hehe: true dat. Arre baap re laalooji.:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:
CricketGirl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Excellent post desi. You have summarised what I have been trying to explain over 3 hrs to CG and gang. We are constantly evolving and changing. If morals are something which change from generation to the next and from person to person' date=' then clearly there is no such thing as morals. It is a personal code. On this point anyone can follow whatever they want.[/quote'] lol my gang is considerably smaller than urs but we still hold onto our argument!!
Riley's Girl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 You know that is not true. This is another example of a girl who doesn't live her life because her dad frightens her or her boyfriend through intimidation. I cannot accept this as natural. I don't fear my dad! My family has just had to deal with a lot of shyt over the last few years and I don't want to add to that. I'm willing to compromise to protect my family. Does that mean I don't live my life?
CricketGirl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 I don't fear my dad! My family has just had to deal with a lot of shyt over the last few years and I don't want to add to that. I'm willing to compromise to protect my family. Does that mean I don't live my life? and believe me your family will respect you for that!!
Riley's Girl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 :agree: can i take this opportunity to thank all the lovely ladies for participating in this thread though unfortunately we are out numbered by the boys in here but we have made our views apparent!! No problemo CG. That's what :friends: are for!
CricketGirl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 No problemo CG. That's what :friends: are for! love you lizzzzzzyyyyyy!!! :icflove: btw are joining gunner in his french pub this weekend??
Riley's Girl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 and believe me your family will respect you for that!! I hope so. As the oldest child I feel responsible for taking away some of the worry in my parents' lives. They have been there for me through some pretty bad times and I know I can always count on them.
Riley's Girl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 love you lizzzzzzyyyyyy!!! :icflove: btw are joining gunner in his french pub this weekend?? That is subject to good behaviour on his part! :winky:
Anonymous Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 I don't fear my dad! My family has just had to deal with a lot of shyt over the last few years and I don't want to add to that. I'm willing to compromise to protect my family. Does that mean I don't live my life? Marilize thats truly refreshing coming from a young female, believe me no one can tell you how to live your life or how well you are living it.... Sorry you entirely missed my point. I said sex is also a recreational activity. point taken..I also agree with you on personal code defining his/her morality.
Guest Gunner Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 It is acceptable for anyone to sleep around. How can we even begin to think about controlling what other people do with their own bodies while not hurting anyone? There is no backward or forward here. Who decides these things? Forward, backward, moral, immoral - all labels. These are all stemming from a place of lack. Not from a place of abundance. As pk (:finger:) pointed out, it is all opportunity. Once upon a time, a dude that couldn't get laid made dilly-dallying around haraam and now we are here. All these semantics related to restraint, morals, celibacy et al is related to control. Men want to control women because they are jealous mofos like PK (:finger:) and women want to control men because they know that they progressively age faster and they needed (in the past) men for support, protection and security. All these things have become irrelevant now therefore the controls related to carnal activities should also collapse. There is an inordinate amount of rationing put on human pleasure. Why should doing something that makes you feel good make you feel guilty? Why is it "right" to sacrifice pleasure? What has it achieved other than a stroking of the ego that you are "better than other people"? Why should you resist what comes so easily? This has to do with religion. In order to gain the control which men so craved the concept of restraint and celibacy was couched in religion. Imagine a primordial man who wanted to please a superior unseen being whom he considered his master so that his life would not be filled with misfortunes what would he do? Inflict pain and abstinence on himself in order to please the being. As this ideology worked sexual abstinence was also brought under this umbrella. Result - control. You get to punish those who have been "immoral" and "evil". The first signs of religion taking control of sexual activities can be seen first in the Torah and the Old testament. People have brought up that making love is much more better than having sex. No argument. Love secretes hormones and good-feeling juices that make the whole experience different and wonderful. This can also happen if you try anal or oral or anything else that could get you off. I don't expect to marry a virgin and she shouldn't either. I mean, cmon! How can people expect to settle down with the first guy/gal u slept with? What if it is not a good fit? (all puns intended) So, coming from that view, why is it "wrong" for a person to sleep around and try to find what best makes them tick? I am definitely not saying that people who choose to stay together and not cheat on each other are missing out on life. Heck no. I have actually been there, when other girls, however appealing just didn't stir me enough to make the leap. Fidelity can work. But, should it define the entire relationship? Over 35 centuries of reinforcement cannot be torn down in one night. The premium on virginity is lost on me, it makes no sense at all. People can do whatever they want as long as they don't go running on the street calling other people immoral. Fidelity is a different ball game. The question of fidelity arises only when you consider "relationship", "marriage" etc. If you are not bound by these monogamous values, there is no fidelity at all. The concept does not hold water anymore. The main reason why we consider marriage is because we want to have progeny. There are very few women around the world who would bear your child without a wedding or a relationship. Ergo we are bound in a monogamous relationship. Then infidelity does become a problem as it proves you to be a hypocrite. I would rather not have that. p.s. gunner bava is just like moi :woot: :woot::woot::woot::woot::woot:
Desi Cartman Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 lol my gang is considerably smaller than urs but we still hold onto our argument!! your point is sharam - haya - maa baap ki respect .. right ? I think we all agree that people should do it .. it will help them become a better person but if its about having premarital sex then it depends how old your child is .. if a 16 yr old is having multiple partners then it wont make her untouchable but will create physiological problems for her in the long run .. if a 23 yr old wants to have sex with every tom dick :giggle: and harry she meets then its a different problem , maybe she is depressed or addicted to sex or maybe thats the way she wants to live. As a parent u can only guide your children to show what is right and wrong ... more importantly if u show them examples they will learn faster. Rest is upto each individual ... what I want in my life is my personal requirements/desires but just cuz I dont want to marry the person A doesnt mean person A doesnt have any morals.
CricketGirl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 That is subject to good behaviour on his part! :winky: lol u mean as long as he respects your "morals" hahaha!!
Guest Gunner Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 :agree: can i take this opportunity to thank all the lovely ladies for participating in this thread though unfortunately we are out numbered by the boys in here but we have made our views apparent!! This is intellectual dishonesty. You are using a populist notion to derail a debate. Men Vs Women is not the context of this thread.
CricketGirl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 your point is sharam - haya - maa baap ki respect .. right ? I think we all agree that people should do it .. it will help them become a better person but if its about having premarital sex then it depends how old your child is .. if a 16 yr old is having multiple partners then it wont make her untouchable but will create physiological problems for her in the long run .. if a 23 yr old wants to have sex with every tom dick :giggle: and harry she meets then its a different problem ' date= maybe she is depressed or addicted to sex or maybe thats the way she wants to live. As a parent u can only guide your children to show what is right and wrong ... more importantly if u show them examples they will learn faster. Rest is upto each individual ... what I want in my life is my personal requirements/desires but just cuz I dont want to marry the person A doesnt mean person A doesnt have any morals. Yes very much so i think desi girls are more aware of this than non desis but again its personal choice not pressure!! your point about the 23 yr old, again personal choice but it does lead me to question what sort of relationship she has with her family that leads her to not think about them (assuming they have conservative views too)
Riley's Girl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Marilize thats truly refreshing coming from a young female, believe me no one can tell you how to live your life or how well you are living it.... Thanx.
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