gator Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Amsterdam, November 18: The Dutch government agreed on Friday a total ban on the wearing of burqas and other Muslim face veils in public, justifying the move on security grounds. Advertisement Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk will now draw up legislation which will result in the Netherlands, once one of Europe's most easy-going nations, imposing some of the continent's toughest laws against concealing the face. "The cabinet finds it undesirable that garments covering the face -- including the burqa -- should be worn in public in view of public order, (and) the security and protection of fellow citizens," the Dutch Justice Ministry said in a statement. The debate on face veils and whether they stymie Muslim integration has gathered momentum across Europe. The Netherlands would be the first European state to impose a countrywide ban on Islamic face coverings, though other countries have already outlawed them in specific places. The move by the centre-right government comes just five days before a general election. The campaign has focused so far on issues like the economy rather than immigration because most mainstream parties have hardened their stances in recent years. Last December Dutch lawmakers voted in favour of a proposal by far-right politician Geert Wilders to outlaw face-coverings and asked Verdonk to examine the feasibility of such a ban. Because veils were worn for religious reasons, she had feared new legislation could come into conflict with religious freedom laws. But she said on Friday this was not the case. Muslim Headscarf Existing legislation already limits the wearing of burqas and other total coverings on public transport or in schools. France has banned the Muslim headscarf and other religious garb from state schools while discussion in Britain centres on limiting the full facial veil, or niqab. Italy has a decades-old law against covering the face in public as an anti-terrorism measure. Some politicians have called for this rule to be enforced against veiled Muslim women. The Muslim community estimates that only about 50 women in the Netherlands wear the head-to-toe burqa or the niqab, a face veil that conceals everything but the eyes. Dutch Muslim groups have complained a burqa ban would make the country's 1 million Muslims feel more victimised and alienated, regardless of whether they approve of burqas or not. "This will just lead to more girls saying 'hey I'm also going to wear a burqa as a protest'," Naima Azough, a member of parliament from the opposition Green Left, told an election campaign meeting for fellow members of the Moroccan community. Job Cohen, the Labour mayor of Amsterdam, said he opposed burqas in schools and public buildings, and said women wearing one who failed to get a job should not expect welfare benefits. "From the perspective of integration and communication, it is obviously very bad because you can't see each other so the fewer the better," he told foreign journalists. "But actually hardly anybody wears one ... The fuss is much bigger than the number of people concerned." Since the murder of anti-immigration maverick Pim Fortuyn in 2002, the Dutch have lost a reputation for tolerance, pushing through some of Europe's toughest entry and integration laws. Social and religious tensions have escalated in the last few years, exacerbated by the murder of film director and Islam critic Theo van Gogh by a Dutch-Moroccan militant in 2004. http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=77277 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public that tent-like dress is certainly a security threat as long as they keep their face out in open it's fine. Even if they want to be walking tent they must be ready to show their face if and when security personnel want them to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public Dutch Muslim groups have complained a burqa ban would make the country's 1 million Muslims feel more victimised and alienated, regardless of whether they approve of burqas or not. I think muslims have done a good job of alienating themselves all over the world so maybe it's time to look in the mirror for religion of peace :chin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quasimodo Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public Dutch Muslim groups have complained a burqa ban would make the country's 1 million Muslims feel more victimised and alienated' date=' regardless of whether they approve of burqas or not. [/quote'] I think muslims have done a good job of alienating themselves all over the world so maybe it's time to look in the mirror for religion of peace :chin: 'ere we go again.... People can wear any odd thing in the name of fashion but just because Muslims do it, there is an issue here ? I agree, for security purposes, the face must be shown to Police etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public gai_ka_dood.. we need your seal in match threads.. you up for it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public People can wear any odd thing in the name of fashion but just because Muslims do it, there is an issue here ? I agree, for security purposes, the face must be shown to Police etc. The people who wear odd things in the name of fashion don't do the following when someone criticizes their fashion sense- - start burning and rioting - stabbing and killing Kafirs - issuing death threats - worshiping a criminal child molester MO - demanding Sharia law - stoning people to death - treating rape as no big deal - wanting to rule the world with their moon god Get it? Should I continue? Muslims are the biggest MOFO hypocrites! Their religion and it's hate filled teachings should be advertised without any PCness so that muslims feel ashamed to be associated with such a messed up facist ideology! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quasimodo Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public People can wear any odd thing in the name of fashion but just because Muslims do it, there is an issue here ? I agree, for security purposes, the face must be shown to Police etc. The people who wear odd things in the name of fashion don't do the following when someone criticizes their fashion sense- - start burning and rioting - stabbing and killing Kafirs - issuing death threats - worshiping a criminal child molester MO - demanding Sharia law - stoning people to death - treating rape as no big deal - wanting to rule the world with their moon god Get it? Should I continue? Muslims are the biggest MOFO hypocrites! Their religion and it's hate filled teachings should be advertised without any PCness so that muslims feel ashamed to be associated with such a messed up facist ideology! Were you one of the guys at the Babri, the one with a sword in hand and standing on the ruins ? I think Bollywood needs more people like you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public u guys cant facking give up on kashmir which was a part of india even before u fackers entered 700 yrs bak.... and u want us to give up on the temple which stood for 1000 yrs before sick muslims razed it and built a mosque on top of it...... clap clap clap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public u guys cant facking give up on kashmir which was a part of india even before u fackers entered 700 yrs bak.... and u want us to give up on the temple which stood for 1000 yrs before sick muslims razed it and built a mosque on top of it...... clap clap clap... They have one way street in every sense Anything which ever was under muslim occupation becomes theirs and they are supposed to be fighting for it all the time. Just understand their predicament if they let go even one thing then whole citadel's justification gets questioned. After all the most holiest Kabaah is also similar nature to Babari mosque with one little difference that in thae case of kababah they destroyed all but one symbol of wrship which is that cube and declared it theirs. Arun Shauri asked very pertinent question in response to the question raised by muslim folks viz a viz show me the proof of the existance of ram temple at the site of babri mosque. The question was: Show the proof that ISmail, or whoeevr he/she/it was, created Kabbah and it belonged to muslim. If you can't then please hand it over to pagans. All he heard was deafening silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public <applause> DR.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public what about the case where the bloody slave, Qutubuddin aibak demolished 27 hindu and jain temples in delhi to get construction materials for his mosques.... since they cant have inscriptions on the stones for building a mosque he had them plastered.... now the plaster is fallin off and slowly the hindu inscriptions are showing up in those stones... bloody built a mosque around our famous iron pillar(rust-free since 1600 yrs), while it has inscriptions in sanskrit referring to our lord Vishnu.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public Were you one of the guys at the Babri, the one with a sword in hand and standing on the ruins ? I think Bollywood needs more people like you... No I was not. Where you the guy who was rioting on the streets and chanting death to Kafirs and Denmark? I was going to say that Bollywood needs more people like you but then realized that it is already full of people like you :wtg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MundaPakistani Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public People can wear any odd thing in the name of fashion but just because Muslims do it, there is an issue here ? I agree, for security purposes, the face must be shown to Police etc. The people who wear odd things in the name of fashion don't do the following when someone criticizes their fashion sense- - start burning and rioting - stabbing and killing Kafirs - issuing death threats - worshiping a criminal child molester MO - demanding Sharia law - stoning people to death - treating rape as no big deal - wanting to rule the world with their moon god Get it? Should I continue? Muslims are the biggest MOFO hypocrites! Their religion and it's hate filled teachings should be advertised without any PCness so that muslims feel ashamed to be associated with such a messed up facist ideology! So i take that you have thoroughly read and understood the Quran? i take that every Muslim that you have known has tried to kill you and tried to rape your women and i also take that all the 140 million Muslims in your country are criminals....if not then i take that you are talking from your a$$... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public A lot of what gai ka dood says is spot on. He is right the religion of peace :lmao: needs to have a long hard look in the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public So i take that you have thoroughly read and understood the Quran? . You might prefer staying ignorant but not me. You think I am spouting off without having read Quran and the beloved Hadiths end to end? i take that every Muslim that you have known has tried to kill you and tried to rape your women and i also take that all the 140 million Muslims in your country are criminals... Given the chance if I critizize MO in public I am sure most muslims will turn a blind eye if one of Mo's true followers tries to attack me. Just ask the people who are dead or in hiding. Where did I say all 100% of muslims are actual criminals? They definitely are following a criminal prophet. .if not then i take that you are talking from your a$$.. So do we agree that all the noises were coming from your ass and not mine :shotgun: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MundaPakistani Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public Where and how did you learn about Quran? What verses in the Quran make you feel say 'oh that's just wrong'....maybe if you can post them here then i might be able to explain them. There is a reason why in some chapters you find things that to YOU may feel a bit contradicting to the previous chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MundaPakistani Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public MP .. I can do that ... but you gotta promise me that you will not get angry about it and go postal on me :hmph: ... Deal ? deal :wtg: make sure you give me the verse # too so i understand the context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public I don't think mundapakastani like being presented with the cold hard facts about his religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MundaPakistani Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public Ok let's start from scratch.... Q) How was Quran revealed? Quran make down in parts...the first verse 'Iqra(which means to read)' was revealed to the Holy Prophet at the age of 40 and the last one was revealed when he was 63 years old....hence it took 23 years to reveal Quran!! Back then the Arabic society was completely on the 'wrong path'...killings, rape, robbery etc were the norm and all these criminals were hardly ever punished so for the 1st 2 years the prophet was ordered to only spread the message of 'Allah' to his close friends and relatives. It was a good 2 years later that the prophet went 'public' with his teaching...now the message was spread to everybody in the city of Mecca so this off course enraged the Arabs who wanted to totally crush Islam so this is when things started to get messy! The Muslims were so few in number that the Arabs thought it would be quite easy to kill them all with only 1 all out attack...so this when the Arabs and the they had the battle for 'Badr' where mere 313 muslims went against over 1000 Arabs and this is when Allah ordered Muslims(through Propher off course) to go 'fight' and kill the 'non-believers' who are trying to kill Islam! So the battle was won the Muslim and Quarish(Arabs) were embarassed and now wanted to kill the muslims more than ever before. So there were many battles after that but by now they(Arabs) were running out of time as Islam started to spread quite rapidly. Now how was Quran complied and how was the message of Mohammed revealed? As most of you will know that Mohammed(PBUH) was an illiterate man so he needed help from his friends(suhabas) in the compilation. It is reported that the Prophet used to have mini ceasure and would come out with such incredible verses that it would completely surprise the people around him because remember he was totally illiterate and in normal circumstances it would have been impossible for him to come up with such 'deep' stuff! So after this he would call his secretaries (people who could write) and used to tell them what to write! The information was normally stored on numerous different objects piece of wood, leaves etc and it wasn't until a few years after the death of the Prophet the Muslim leaders decided to gather all these verses and complied them in to one single book called the Quran. So now the thing for us to see is that the Quran has verses that might at times contradict themselves e.g there is this message to be friendly to non-believers yet there are verses which say to kill the non-believers! I reckon here one needs to look at the context and consider the time in which the Quran was revealed and how the Quran was revealed! Now it's up to us to interpret that the verses about violence.....does Allah really say that kill your neighbors, fellow citizens, innocent women and children simply because they don't believe in Allah?? NO?.. because if that was the case then why would there be a mention of being nice and polite to the non believers? The verses of violence are quite simply a 'license' for the Muslims to fight back at those who attack and kill you.....Islam doesn't allow killing of the innocent be it Muslims or non Muslims and if anyone does that then he/she is a murderer which off course is considered a huge sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public Ok let's start from scratch.... Q) How was Quran revealed? Quran make down in parts...the first verse 'Iqra(which means to read)' was revealed to the Holy Prophet at the age of 40 and the last one was revealed when he was 63 years old....hence it took 23 years to reveal Quran!! God must have been really slow! Back then the Arabic society was completely on the 'wrong path'...killings, rape, robbery etc were the norm Mo did not change much did he? As most of you will know that Mohammed(PBUH) was an illiterate man so he needed help from his friends(suhabas) in the compilation. So of all the people God picked someone like MO? What does that tell you about God? Common sense is missing in this world! It is reported that the Prophet used to have mini ceasure and would come out with such incredible verses that it would completely surprise the people around him because remember he was totally illiterate and in normal circumstances it would have been impossible for him to come up with such 'deep' stuff! split personality... deranged lunatic? Munda you really buy all that? Use some of you brain my friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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