Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

Lurker: Bakhtiyar Khilji ka naam suna hai bandhu, if not then google might help.

Hmmm so ab aapko Bakhtiyaar Khilji ki yaad aa gayi? Jaanab aapse seedha sawaal tha, which Islamic raider went all the way to North Bihar? And what exactly did he dismantle? I beleive you are from that area and so any roshni in this regard would be greatly appreciated. By the way I see you tend to throw around some names. If you really knew something about them you might think twice. For example Akbar. Do you realize that he had asked for the translation of Mahabharta? And do you know that he had put his best man, Abul Fazal, the one who wrote Ain-e-Akbari(naam to suna hi hoga) in charge of that translation? In case you would have bothered, you would actually find a copy of that Persian translation of Mahabharta in Khudabaksh Library Patna. Then again...... xxxx

That region was under islamic rule just because there is no mention of big demolition job in that area doesn't mean they didn't. For instance Nalanda demolition is known to all and not much is heard about anythign else in that region so what do u think Khilji visited Bihar with the agenda of destroying nalanda nd touched nothing else. There are close to 100 thousand temples destroyed do u find treatise for each and every of them in hostory books. Even if they didn't destroy the very fact that they ruled the region for thousand years and some monument disappeared due to wear and tear or some other reason during that period may i ask who is to blame. You come here and ask for which mounment is still standing what did hindus do totally disregarding that for thousand years these marauders were in charge so it was their responsibility to prserve anything. Instead of preserving they took the opposite rout. So a mahabharata translation in persian this is what they have to show for after 100o yars of rule.. Don;t get me wrong I know akbar had respect for intellectual that doesn't mean Jack . Resources these guys had aplenty only thing needed was conviction which they never had. Heck in desert they could attempt to start a city fatehpur but . They could ercet tajmahal they could raze temples and ercet mosques but god forbid if someone asks them to start soem university for education. Whole apologist brigade start looking sideways. I will gve it to them on thsi front they are very eficient at razing others monuments sometimes even erect their own at the site . Nothign has chnaged since first demolition and usurpation job of kabbah same stroy is repeated again and again. I rest my case. I was told here Akbar triggered wave of science and technology and I am still waiting f

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status This is what I am talking about this bloody fixation with taj whihc epitomizes wasteful expense at the cost fo starving public . see now they are worried about the dumps site across the yamuna river flowing besides taj it presumably defaces taj. Heck I say spend the money if u have surplus but first bloody make sure the slum on the banks of yamuna gets the face-lift, beautification of area surrounding that meaingless structure can wait.

[Vedic_Kshatriya]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status The Taj Mahal is a symbol of filth, someone should tear it down.

[Lurker]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

That region was under islamic rule just because there is no mention of big demolition job in that area doesn't mean they didn't.

So let me get this straight now. You have spent the better part of your life in North Bihar and you have failed, yes Sir you have, to give me some examples of Islamic butchery. That is as clear cut as it can be.

You come here and ask for which mounment is still standing what did hindus do totally disregarding that for thousand years these marauders were in charge so it was their responsibility to prserve anything. Instead of preserving they took the opposite rout.

Again took the rhetorical route I see. I sense a feeling of "victim" mentality in your posts. Just as some Muslims always refuse to beleive the right and wrong of arguments and kowtoe the line of "West is out to get us", "Kaafirs hate us" and so on. Similarly you revel in "Muslims destroyed Indian history". The fact of the matter is North Bihar is extremely rich when it comes to Indian history. Be it its connection with mythology or ancient Kingdoms. Be it its role in pre-Independent India or post-Independent. I would have really appreciated if you mentioned something about how rich North Bihar is in terms of history and what has the predominant Hindu population done to save it. I am not even sure if you know history of North Bihar even though you hail from that area( no offence). Goes to show what I was mentioning about Indian's relcutance to learn and appreciate history.

Don;t get me wrong I know akbar had respect for intellectual that doesn't mean Jack . Resources these guys had aplenty only thing needed was conviction which they never had. Heck in desert they could attempt to start a city fatehpur but .

Maybe not to you but most historians rate Akbar very highly. If your sole criteria is Science and Technology defining a good ruler than good luck with that. As a ruler Akbar's stature in Indian history is second to none, right from Ashoka to Chandragupta, you perhaps need to accept that.

I rest my case.

You never had a case Sir. All bags of rhetorics. You want a case? Well heres a deal. Why dont you show me what Hindus have done in your very own area to save the history? With the amount of historical riches in the area you should not lack it. If you can show me something worthwhile yes you had a case else you have what I have up above referred as "vicitim mentality". xxxx

[Predator_05]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

The Taj Mahal is a symbol of filth' date=' someone should tear it down.[/quote'] Well these days it's certainly covered with filth (soot), with all the smoke seeping out of those factories near-by.

[CC1981]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

The Taj Mahal is a symbol of filth' date=' someone should tear it down.[/quote'] Ironic that your name has 'vedic' in it yet your attitude is anything but 'vedic'. :wall:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status Lurker you spewed BS again: Whole India has rich hostory not just north Bihar and question you had raised which mounment of north bihar was destoryed by islamist well my answer was there is no treatise available on events of north india but marauders who love to destroy universities must have razed other things too. It was not hitman's job where people single out particualr site and leave the rest intact. Well I didn't care to google for the list but bossbhai has given you a stinging slap in face now go read that list. MY point is bloody for thousand years mullah ruled the roost and for 200 years british then clowns like you turn around andwondr how come no monument is not inatct so it must be hindu rulers of 1200 years' back' fault. So if anything is missing from the map it has to be these rulers's fault unless you can point me out where and when in last 50 years those nort biahr monument have been destroyed. NO pussyfooting pal having navratan in court doesn;t make Akbar. Just poitn me out forget science and technoogy just literature just any other site of learning which any of these islamci rulers helps construct. In demolition list their resume is lng but when i ask u to produce constructive work u go an merry go round of this and that lecture. Question will remain open you can google you can go to libraries but freaking do produce one before making a claim. 100 year is long enough time for these rules to have set up even a single university, You can crib as long as u want produce pinko historians vacuuous calims as long as you want but till produce one tangible evidence corroborating those claims you are wasting discerning people's time. YEs I will give it to Akbar on one count he was not a congenital non-muslim hater like other islamic rulers. IN fact rahin khan khana despite ebign muslim used to be the staunch krishan worshipper but these things are irrelevant when we are talking about Islamic periods contriubution in science and technology in India. It's zilch zero nada. BOSSBHAI good job :wtg:

[King]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status I visited a fantastic historical place near Bangalore last time around but was shocked and saddened to see superbly carved stone sculptures absolutely defaced. The person explaining to the tourists mentioned they were destroyed by the invaders and at that time there were a lot of forced conversions. I have to say the monument is just one off and involved many years of work. To destroy it for religion sake was simply not on and it was really unfortunate to note the sultan army came from elsewhere while the natives didn't bother fighting protecting these. The Indian got has still maintained these sites really well at present. What I didn't like was the parity in entry charges for foreign nationals and the local people. People visiting from outside were paying about 40 US $ or something while the local Indians got away paying only about 5 US $.

[CC1981]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

I visited a fantastic historical place near Bangalore last time around but was shocked and saddened to see superbly carved stone sculptures absolutely defaced. The person explaining to the tourists mentioned they were destroyed by the invaders and at that time there were a lot of forced conversions.

Yes, quite sad and quite barbaric. To be honest, i have very little regard for most of the invaders who popped around, particularly western/central asian ones since 700 AD. But at the same time, we have to realize the positive influences they had, if any. It would be both naive and extremely misplaced hinduvta/religious bigotry to hold the view that the invasions didn't account for a single positive. There is no such thing as perfect good or perfect evil. And its not even the point of comparisons: it should not be forgotten that they were homicidal maniacs from religious nut-houses and destroyed far more than they contributed positively but the positives have to be regarded well and preserved for such. The invaders halted our scientific progress, killed zillions, force-converted zillions and pillaged a lot. But they also brought with them their arts, their culture, their finer points which has only served to enrich India further. Our food reflects this - think of the contribution of the 700 AD-1500 AD invaders to our cuisine. Or their contribution to our music or poetry, literature, crafts, etc etc. India is certainly richer for it and i see no reason why India should view the invasions as singularly evil or having no positives whatsoever. The French still preserve the Bastille for crying out loud. The English preserve the Tower of London. And those two places were bona-fide slaughterhouses. Nevermind who built it- they were 'pucca' blood-filled pits of human suffering. And yet they are preserved. The taj, atleast, was never associated with anything sinister- its perhaps a mausoleum, perhaps a temple, perhaps a tomb, perhaps a palace- whatever. But its not where people got beheaded or ripped apart after their backs were broken on wheels. And yet,some narrowminded and quasi-educated people wanna tear down the Taj or ignore it. But yet, the English preserve the tower of london and the french preserve the Bastille. Why ? Because they in itself provides cultural continuity. They are cultural edifices that connect a people to their culture and their history. When we find a town in Lothal or some indus valley relic, we go nuts with pride and happiness because we found something linking back to our past and our culture. Yet, do we even know who built those ? Or why they were built ? What happened there ? No- it doesnt matter because nothing has any inherent meaning in things either- long after the meaning fades, its the relic in itself that serves to bring meaning to the current generation's lives- even thousands of years later. And that is exactly why the Taj Mahal should be preserved. Not only is it an architectural masterpiece, not only is it representing something completely benign at worst and something extremely decent at best, it provides the 'anchor' for the future generations. Unfortunately, people with really infantile notions that fail to differentiate the reality of living and the reality looked through theory, fail to realise such things. They are too consumed by their petty little religious agendas, ironically derived from ignorance of their own religious/philosophical backgrounds; to consider the positives represented by the Taj that completely overwhelms their ill-conceived notion of the negetives. Anyways, this is my final input on this thread- i am just glad that our government is a bit saner in these regards (though it has much room for improvement) than some of the people around here who'd do well to take a few trips to the psychiatrist's couch.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status But at the same time, we have to realize the positive influences they had, if any. You have this habit of penning meandering treatise.. how about you go ahead and enlist those positives. This hit and run is getitng boring. BTW I am still waiting for substantiation of ur Akbar the science and technology pioneer claim. Come on for a change give some data instead of vacuuous lecturing.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

I visited a fantastic historical place near Bangalore last time around but was shocked and saddened to see superbly carved stone sculptures absolutely defaced. The person explaining to the tourists mentioned they were destroyed by the invaders and at that time there were a lot of forced conversions. I have to say the monument is just one off and involved many years of work. To destroy it for religion sake was simply not on and it was really unfortunate to note the sultan army came from elsewhere while the natives didn't bother fighting protecting these. The Indian got has still maintained these sites really well at present. What I didn't like was the parity in entry charges for foreign nationals and the local people. People visiting from outside were paying about 40 US $ or something while the local Indians got away paying only about 5 US $.

That's islamist modus-operandi for you. In war time upto some extent any marauders bludgeons monuments but after establishign the reign take these demolition drive religiously in peace time that's what irks everyone. Most probably what you saw near bangalore was handiwork of psec's poster-boy tipu sultan. They were good with synchronizing these demolition drives on auspicious days like Dipwaali Holi so much so these festivals have turned into days of mournign for many people in that region. BTW this poster boy tipu sultan not only as wreakng havoc on general population but also tried to convert his mahamantri purnaiya ( actually not his mahamantri basically mahamntri fo the dynasty from whom illegally tipu's father the senapti usurped the rein of kingdon) and when british attacked on one front purnaiya was leading and he so willingly put his weapon's down claimign how could he had fought against someone who was guarding his people from religious persecution. Psces can try as much as they want but there are not many positives if any. They talk about positive provide me one

[King]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

Yes, quite sad and quite barbaric. To be honest, i have very little regard for most of the invaders who popped around, particularly western/central asian ones since 700 AD. But at the same time, we have to realize the positive influences they had, if any. It would be both naive and extremely misplaced hinduvta/religious bigotry to hold the view that the invasions didn't account for a single positive. There is no such thing as perfect good or perfect evil.

Still cannot excuse such misconduct in the name of religion in the first place. In trying to find positive you are forgetting the rich culture and the history that was destroyed by these guys. I'm not asking for anyone to go destroy what these stupid religious rulers built as a tit for tat but to hail them for bringing their culture to the native Indians is not just being nice but bending backwards for I don't know what reason????? They still deserve to be condemned not freakin treated as heroes because they built great monuments while destroying the already existing glorious ones. Before anyone goes around appreciating the newer monuments one has to take a hard look at the ones that were destroyed originally and how valuable they were. There were work of hundreds of years involved in the historical site I visited I was told. I can't remember the numbers but there were thousands involved and it was built over 200 years but were destroyed in no time :mad: I have seen it first hand how badly they were destroyed and I can't think why anyone would do that in the first place. Of course there were religious motive behind it, the sultans didn't like idol worshipping I think and they went on a destroying spree. Of course they had to contribute their culture to the history because that clearly was their motive. I wouldn't blame people here for not supporting the Taj monument simply for the sake of looking and sounding good. When the deeds behind such monument rakes of barbarity and disrespect to the local culture and people, they simply don't deserve an ounce of respect from the locals quite naturally.

[CC1981]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

how about you go ahead and enlist those positives

I already did- namely, cultural contributions. Food, arts, crafts, musical instruments with west asian roots, etc etc. Many food we eat, many literature we read, poetry we admire, music we love etc. have 'islamic' influences or are west-asian at core. Perhaps you are not familiar with the cultural aspects of India as well as you like to think or take a laughably narrowminded and dismissive views towards it.

BTW I am still waiting for substantiation of ur Akbar the science and technology pioneer claim.

It is accepted historically that Akbar patronised intellectual, artistic and theological debate and thinking. Science and tech is an extension of that and while he might not have created the situation overnight to produce scientific gurus but he did check the slide.

[CC1981]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

I'm not asking for anyone to go destroy what these stupid religious rulers built as a tit for tat but to hail them for bringing their culture to the native Indians is not just being nice but bending backwards for I don't know what reason????? They still deserve to be condemned not freakin treated as heroes because they built great monuments while destroying the already existing glorious ones.

For what reason ? I give you Mirza Ghalib and Tansen. That is reason enough in itself. Though i dont know if you are familiar with Mirza Ghalib or Tansen. Nobody is saying they were heroes- but lets not go around demonizing anyone and everyone with the tag 'muslim king' to them. I certainly condemn Aurangzebs or Ghoris and Khiljis of the world. But i see no reason to overly condemn Jahangir or Shah Jahan or Akbar. Incase you forget, hindu rulers too wernt exactly unknown for conquest or subjugating conquered population. We did it less but its not the black and white you percieve it to be.

Of course they had to contribute their culture to the history because that clearly was their motive.

Motive is largely irrelevant. What matters most is the result. Bad things have sometimes come out of something seemingly good and good things have sometimes come out of something seemingly bad. I dont care what your motives are to patronize bharatnatyam, for example. It deserves to get patronized and as such, you'll earn a pat on the back from me for that.

When the deeds behind such monument rakes of barbarity and disrespect to the local culture and people

Well what the hell does the Taj have to do with the Khiljis or the Aurangzebs of the world ? It was built by extremely talented, skilled and hardworking artisans and engineers.An accomplishment of OUR ancestors. Thousands and thousands of them. Took them over twenty freaking years to build! (how many projects have you worked at that takes 20 years to complete?) And you have the temerity of dismissing the lifelong achievement of thousands of people into something beautiful and utterly benign ( A FREAKING NON-MILITARY BUILDING!) simply because of one man/king ? Its a massive disservice to THEM to throw scorn and disrespect their way simply because they got the money from someone who maybe a shady character or descends from butchers of humanity. I hope if Laloo tomorrow comissions the building of a temple, you go disregarding that temple too for being a tosspot or if Verappan, who specialises in blowing people up goes and builds a Krishna temple, you throw in your disregards too. I am sorry but i think the viewpoints expressed in disregards to the Taj are laughably narrowminded and ill-conceived.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

how about you go ahead and enlist those positives

I already did- namely, cultural contributions. Food, arts, crafts, musical instruments with west asian roots, etc etc. Many food we eat, many literature we read, poetry we admire, music we love etc. have 'islamic' influences or are west-asian at core. Perhaps you are not familiar with the cultural aspects of India as well as you like to think or take a laughably narrowminded and dismissive views towards it.

BTW I am still waiting for substantiation of ur Akbar the science and technology pioneer claim.

It is accepted historically that Akbar patronised intellectual, artistic and theological debate and thinking. Science and tech is an extension of that and while he might not have created the situation overnight to produce scientific gurus but he did check the slide.

Ah those holy grail of cultural contribution I could very well have monikered it as cultural bastardization but I won't; but at the same time I am not going to pat these marauders on the back for this. This food art this and that fusion just happens by alien cultural's sheer presence and needs no effort nothing it just happens whether the native culture likes it or not. SO stop peddling it as some kind of positive. Only positive I can think of is that Shershah Suri's tenure where he tried to put some money in infrastrcuture development rest are bunch of neanderthals, some less some more. That case u can make for any of the rulers so why stop at akbar they all have this tenedency of intellectual debate as leasiure sport . These kind of forays don't go beyond king's court. This is just the elite tradition. dare I say it's meaningless too. I too love to sit around and pontificate on anythign and everythign should i claim it as my contribution to larger good of society :lmao: , well that's what those court-room leisure intellectual debates were. IT's baffling indeed when thousand two thousand years before this gentlemn rulers could come up with seats of learning like taxila nalanda and all these socaleld great espouser of higher education has to show for is some leaisure indulgence in his court. Next time do ur research ..

[King]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

I am sorry but i think the viewpoints expressed in disregards to the Taj are laughably narrowminded and ill-conceived.

That is your opinion and I don't care about that. Similarly I can't appreciate someone that doesn't see both sides of the coins and percevies his opinion is the best. If you can't appreciate the work on destroyed monuments then your broad mindedness about Taj has absoltuely no meaning. No one's saying Taj is bad but they don't want to glorify it and they have strong reasons for it. Point out your view, respect their views and move on. No one's stopping you from going to the website and voting for it. Don't call the rest unread or narrow minded just because you think otherwise.

Nobody is saying they were heroes- but lets not go around demonizing anyone and everyone with the tag 'muslim king' to them. I certainly condemn Aurangzebs or Ghoris and Khiljis of the world. But i see no reason to overly condemn Jahangir or Shah Jahan or Akbar. Incase you forget, hindu rulers too wernt exactly unknown for conquest or subjugating conquered population.

I would like to know when these rulers started infilterating India and when did they last had their grasp of power on India? I would like a bit of research to find out if most of these rulers were interested in spreading their religion through out apart from of course destroying historical monuments. I also would like to know how many of the monuments built by these guys were destroyed once they were thrown out of power. I would also like to know if the original Indian rulers engaged in forced conversions. I thought India was all welcoming from whatever I've read. Unless I can answer these I don't reckon I can pen more than what I already have.

[CC1981]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

If you can't appreciate the work on destroyed monuments then your broad mindedness about Taj has absoltuely no meaning.

Err, i have extremely high regard for ALL ancient Indian architecture and cultural achievements. Emphasis on the word 'ALL'. What i consider Indian 'masterpieces' in architecture for example, the few of them that i truely think are masterpieces that is, span over 5000 years of Indian history. I dont know why you think i have little or no appreciation for the destroyed or some of the ruined but surviving monuments from ancient past.

Don't call the rest unread or narrow minded just because you think otherwise.

Err, i said its narrowminded because i think it is! Did you completely miss the part where i said the Taj is the accomplishments of thousands and thousands of OUR ancestors, most of whom were extremely skilled and did it as one lifetime project ??? And that there were no intent or malice behind THAT project ? Good job disregarding the efforts and skills of those people just because you think somethings wrong with the government that sponsored this ! Its like hating the pyramids because it was built by some pharoah who went around killing and subjugating other nations to be his personal resting place. I doubt Egyptians see the pyramids that way. :shrug:

I would like a bit of research to find out if most of these rulers were interested in spreading their religion through out apart from of course destroying historical monuments.

Okay. Well, like you said, go research. I wish you success! Just for starters,I know it to be incredibly stupid to assume that dozens and dozens of rulers, many of whom had hindu mothers for example and grew up with the indian culture visible and around them were all butchers and evil personified down to the last person. Just living life and interacting with people is proof enough of such lucidly fantasical roots of such notions.

[CC1981]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

Ah those holy grail of cultural contribution I could very well have monikered it as cultural bastardization but I won't

Every culture involves bastardisation of something previous- its called evolution. Without it there is no evolution of culture and this 'bastardisation' as you put it, requires periodic outside influx of new 'stuff' to keep the process going, without which it shuts down, goes into decay and dies.

I am not going to pat these marauders on the back for this.

Screw you and your marauders ! THEY didnt build it. They wanted it, gave a boatload of money for it and a whole bunch of extremely skilled and dedicated workers, who were my ancestors by the way- built it as a lifetime project. A project that stood for something extremely good and benign. You wanna be the guy who goes down the same route,i'd like to see you spit on daVinci due to who his patron was.

That case u can make for any of the rulers so why stop at akbar they all have this tenedency of intellectual debate as leasiure sport .

No, very few have this infact. Or conversely, few allowed intellectual debate as freely as Akbar did. This is noted in several aspects of our history.

These kind of forays don't go beyond king's court. This is just the elite tradition.

Pure and simple narrowminded assumptions. True, not everything was put into a royal decree but when I am in a position to literally do what you want, its extremely naive of you to think i wont put into motion the development of a single 'intellectual' idea i come across and think is very good.

IT's baffling indeed when thousand two thousand years before this gentlemn rulers could come up with seats of learning like taxila nalanda and all these socaleld great espouser of higher education has to show for is some leaisure indulgence in his court.

Whats baffling you is not realising that Taxila or Nalanda didnt just come out of some guys head all out of the blue but was a culmination of the works put before the dood who put the founding stone or the dood who completed it. Its a societerial thing. A man is always restricted by the society in his ultimate impact. Its historically noted that Akbar did several things extremely liberal. Some so liberal and intellectual that it really pissed off Aurangzeb, his grandson. He didnt have a huge impact because the societerial framework necessary to produce a Nalanda or Taxila were not in place during his time. You are perhaps baffled because you do not realise that you are being extremely unfair by comparing the achivement of a civilisation with the achievement of a king.

Next time do ur research

Not a question of research. A question of understanding. I dont think you've applied it sufficiently in this case.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

Ah those holy grail of cultural contribution I could very well have monikered it as cultural bastardization but I won't

Every culture involves bastardisation of something previous- its called evolution. Without it there is no evolution of culture and this 'bastardisation' as you put it, requires periodic outside influx of new 'stuff' to keep the process going, without which it shuts down, goes into decay and dies.

I am not going to pat these marauders on the back for this.

Screw you and your marauders ! THEY didnt build it. They wanted it, gave a boatload of money for it and a whole bunch of extremely skilled and dedicated workers, who were my ancestors by the way- built it as a lifetime project. A project that stood for something extremely good and benign. You wanna be the guy who goes down the same route,i'd like to see you spit on daVinci due to who his patron was.

That case u can make for any of the rulers so why stop at akbar they all have this tenedency of intellectual debate as leasiure sport .

No, very few have this infact. Or conversely, few allowed intellectual debate as freely as Akbar did. This is noted in several aspects of our history.

These kind of forays don't go beyond king's court. This is just the elite tradition.

Pure and simple narrowminded assumptions. True, not everything was put into a royal decree but when I am in a position to literally do what you want, its extremely naive of you to think i wont put into motion the development of a single 'intellectual' idea i come across and think is very good.

IT's baffling indeed when thousand two thousand years before this gentlemn rulers could come up with seats of learning like taxila nalanda and all these socaleld great espouser of higher education has to show for is some leaisure indulgence in his court.

Whats baffling you is not realising that Taxila or Nalanda didnt just come out of some guys head all out of the blue but was a culmination of the works put before the dood who put the founding stone or the dood who completed it. Its a societerial thing. A man is always restricted by the society in his ultimate impact. Its historically noted that Akbar did several things extremely liberal. Some so liberal and intellectual that it really pissed off Aurangzeb, his grandson. He didnt have a huge impact because the societerial framework necessary to produce a Nalanda or Taxila were not in place during his time. You are perhaps baffled because you do not realise that you are being extremely unfair by comparing the achivement of a civilisation with the achievement of a king.

Next time do ur research

Not a question of research. A question of understanding. I dont think you've applied it sufficiently in this case.

How many years islamist need heck they got 1000 years. Those who have drive to do smoethign bring changes in less than a decade example shershah suri those who are useless neanderthals for them no time is enough. And for the zilliotnth time nobody deserves pat on the back for the natural self-driven bastardization amulgamation evolution whatever u call it. They get judged by things which takes conscious efforts and I am sorry to say in that section they have done zilch zero nada. Givng them clean cheat based pn the work of evolution that will be tanatamount to patting the back of a murdere who takes hostage my family kills its members keeps me hostage for months and by the end of this saga I end up learning some new lamb recipe from that murderer and thereby conclude it was not bad after all. Not convincing whatsoever.

[King]

Re: Taj Mahal needs your vote to retain Seven Wonder status

Did you completely miss the part where i said the Taj is the accomplishments of thousands and thousands of OUR ancestors, most of whom were extremely skilled and did it as one lifetime project ??? And that there were no intent or malice behind THAT project ? Good job disregarding the efforts and skills of those people just because you think somethings wrong with the government that sponsored this ! Its like hating the pyramids because it was built by some pharoah who went around killing and subjugating other nations to be his personal resting place. I doubt Egyptians see the pyramids that way.

Not at all, Taj is a great monument and is clearly one off. It must be appreciated for all the work that has gone into it. That said, spending millions on cleansing this monument while a lot of half destroyed original Indian monuments don't even getting a look is simply not on.

Shah Jahan was so pleased with the results that he did not want anything as beautiful ever to be built again, and so he had many of the craftsmen's thumbs and hands cut off to ensure that they never again could create such beauty. (This happened, obviously, before he had the idea to build a second structure across from the first, but we will get to that later.)

Why would anyone that appreciates good work want craftsmen's thumbs and hands cut off? Would you support such attitude just because he wanted best looking building all for himself? You may not believe in this story and call it a myth but people that have seen the barbarism of similar rulers believe in these stories and you/me have no right to stop them from believing it because they know history as much as you and me do. Moreover people cannot excuse a lot of these Sultans that forced a lot of people to give up their original culture and terrorised them into a new culture. Now what do you see of the once a great undivided Indian nation on religious nation? The deeds these guys did battered the Indian history forever and divided the nation among religious lines. The Sultans clearly were the first to influence such a deed and now it stares at each and every individual on a daily basis. How can a proud Indian that prides in its history take this now? They take Taj with a bit of salt and they should be left alone to make their mind up. If it?s their decision to not view Taj with similar respect as you then it is their wish. They can rather be termed someone that has a strong opinion about something and are well learned. Not just another sheep that just follows its herd because it looks good in the rest of the company.