King Tendulkar Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani DSR, I have already answered those questions in another thread where i had a lengthy discussion with Bheem and some others, it was in Novemeber so you can search if you want to. I have no idea what thread etc it is in. To be honest to tiresome to look them up. I would be grateful for answers to my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani While your intentions are good .... but the fact remains that except for a brief period during Akbars time there was hardly any peace between the 2 communities BB, Do you ever realize that in the zeal to "prove" your points you often show India in a very poor light? How in the effing world(I rarely swear) can you make statements like there was hardly any peace between the 2 communities and then possibly hope for India's future?? Arent you the one who relishes on "those who forget history are bound to repeat it?". Do you ever realize that if you put two and two together there is no future for India. Give it a serious thought. It would be ludicrous to call the time during Babar, Humayun Shahjahan, Aurangzeb and later the Afghani looting of Delhi under Abdali at the invitation of Shah Wali Ullah as anything but peacfull. That statement is wrong on too many accounts. 1) For starters why are all the names Muslim? Why doesnt a Narendra Modi, a Babu Bajrangi, a Praveen Togadia feature up there? Under Modi Muslims were butchered in a free India. Why did you conviniently forget that? Why was Bal Thackeray forgotten? A man who loves to paint everyone with communal angle, heck he even went on to suggest "Agar unke paas hai Dawood hai to apne paas Gawli hai". Would you mind changing your list? 2) By what barometers were the person mentioned selected? Why does Babur gets a mention when he is nothing but a name in history book today? Why was Amir Khusrao, for example, not mentioned? The impact of Khusrao on Indian culture is lot more pronounced than Babur. When was the last time a Hindu wrote about Allah as much as Abdul Rahim Khankhana did(about Hindu Gods)? When was the last time an Indian ruler/leader translated the Quran/Hadeeths the ways Dara Shikhoh translated Upnishads? Are more Indians impacted by an Aurangzeb or a Sai Baba? And do you know how both Hindus and Muslims rever Sai Baba? Give me a good reason why you selectively choose Humayun, Babur but conviniently forget Rahim, Dara Shikoh, Amir Khsuro, Moinuddin Chisti, Sai Baba, Kabir etc. 3) The easiest example of course is that India thrives after 60 odd years. How does that work when Hindus and Muslims can not survive together? I bet the next time there is a debate about how minorities are treated in Pakistan, you shall be quick to show how a Muslim is President in India, how Muslims rule Bollywood, how Muslims are part of Indian cricket history, how a Muslim is richest Indian and all. So why is it that you conviniently forget all this when you have to show that Hindu-Muslims living side by side is a "myth"? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani Lurker .... if it wasnt clear from my past discussions with you ... let me say it once again ... I am not the one for ignoring uncomfortable facts. My allegiance is only towards facts. And I will say it as I see it. Hardly. From what I have seen you have a very myopic version of facts and you rhetorically stick by it. There is no such thing as fact, or atleast absolute fact, it is also a variable of time and space. Of course you are going to say as you see it. But you also should be willing to see the "facts" see by others. Thus far I havent seen you do that. But however if you are willing to discuss this without the hit and run tactics and childish innuendo and rhetoric ... and in a mature manner please let me know and we can take it from there. Either offline or online. I understand that its a sensitive topic but the truth needs to come out ... Iam more than willing to listen patiently to your side of the story but it will be on terms mentioned above. Decide and let me know. Where did that come from? No need to be patronizing or taking moral highroads. I have asked you a few questions up above. Go ahead and answer them. If I consider your posts as a waste of time to respond I reserve the right to do so. Thats the version of facts the way I see it. Fair? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani I want MP to answer my questions. Genuiniely fascinated to hear his replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani Hain ? lets see for eg ... You are now going to say that Creation of Pak was not a fact ! or that it was demanded by ML ? or that KP's have been driven out from K ... etc etc ... ? Irrelevant. For starters it amazes me how this thread that has nothing to deal with Kashmiri Pundit or creation of Pakistan has now delved into exactly that. That you are atleast partly responsible even though you happen to be a Moderator of this site(sorry I am not taking a cheap shot but humbly remiding you) speaks volumes about your priorities. Based on your past posting pattern .... you tend to escape when uncomfortable facts are bought up .... Iam not going to waste my time if you intend to continue with the same tactics of hit-and-run .... Sorry wont get into a slanging fest. You know the whole, "kichad mein pathar nahin maarte" and all. I repeat what I said before, this time in bold, "If I beleive your posts are a waste of time to respond, I reserve the right of doing so". You of course are free to live in lala land and beleive whatever you may want to. And unlike you Iam willing to patiently sit here and answer all your questions regardless of whether or not they are a waste of time or how ludicrous they appear at outset. Show me where your mouth is. Its been 3 post since I asked you questions and all you have to show is this? And respectfull would like to remind you that as a Moderator its your responsibility to enure a thread doesnt deterioarate or goes in the dump, not hasten it. Personally I hate to see a well-meant thread going along the usual way. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani Please answer his points, Boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani B R AMBEDKAR BEGS TO DIFFER ON WE HAVE LIVED TOGETHER PEACEFULLY...AND HE KNOWS A THING OR TWO ABOUT HISTORY How so? Hindus and Muslims lived together relatively peacefully for 600+ years, even during the War of 1857 they both fought together against the Brits. If u call dhimmi status of the rest as peaceful coexistance then yes otherwise big noooooooo. The moment islamic rulers lost the supreme power pide piper of islamist Sha Wali ullah (erstwhile equivalent of let us say Imam Bukhari, Zaakir Hussain) invited afghan ruler to attack India. So much for coexistance.. As long as biritsh masters were there again they had not much of a problme the moment India got indepdence sensing the vile Hindus being in majority will have more political power again peaceful coexistance came to the front and we saw division of the country. Barring few years of Akbar rule there is no such thing as peaceful coexistance. Purnaiah the senapati of Tipu Sultan while puting hsi weapons down welcomed british with words ," How can I fight against those who are keepign my co-religionists safe from islam oppression". BTW this tipu sultan is secularist's poster boy wheras fact is even today scores of village in Mysore region don't celebrate Dipwaali because it reminds them of secualr tipu's sword. Fact is people die in war but to kill civilians for the reaosn that they were not muslims have been calling card of islamic invaders. Anyway,yes when was that 600 years period please do let me know, I somehow missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani Allright ... since I dont see a response ... I take it that you are not interested in the Terms of debate. Nothing surprising. You are asking much more than he is capable of. In one thread spanning several pages he kept questioning my figure of cost incurred by govt of India in training a fighter pilot. but when i did procure that information and in fact was kind of under-estimating the cost well he developed condition of selective myopia. Terms of debate is nto conducive to hit and run methodlogy. BTW one thigng I gathered he doesn't negate that there hardly is anything called peaceful coexistance His beef is with benefits of telling this bitter truth vs telling the sweet lies. Well there are different school of thought. i belieev no good ciitadel coems on foundation of lies. Bal Tackerey bogey comes everywhere be it sanjay dutt case or samjhauta express bombing. when secularists compare baal thakrey with blood thirsty islamic rulers of medieval time they do come of too desperate. difference in scale of violence perpetrated by two sides notwithstanding .. one at best is reactive and another out and out proactive both in action in belief.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani Bal Tackerey bogey comes everywhere be it sanjay dutt case or samjhauta express bombing. when secularists compare baal thakrey with blood thirsty islamic rulers of medieval time they do come of too desperate. difference in scale of violence perpetrated by two sides notwithstanding .. one at best is reactive and another out and out proactive both in action in belief.. Tell that all those poor folks from your home state , whose only sin was apparently taking rail exams in Mumbai. Heck , they couldn't even reach VT . They were thrashed in kalyan railway station itself by Shiv Sena thugs. Bal thackerey and his goons of targetted South Indians before in the 70's. So,DR , guess what he did to Udupi Resturant owners. The last I checked , these people were all Indians and mostly Hindu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani Bal Tackerey bogey comes everywhere be it sanjay dutt case or samjhauta express bombing. when secularists compare baal thakrey with blood thirsty islamic rulers of medieval time they do come of too desperate. difference in scale of violence perpetrated by two sides notwithstanding .. one at best is reactive and another out and out proactive both in action in belief.. Tell that all those poor folks from your home state , whose only sin was apparently taking rail exams in Mumbai. Heck , they couldn't even reach VT . They were thrashed in kalyan railway station itself by Shiv Sena thugs. Bal thackerey and his goons of targetted South Indians before in the 70's. So,DR , guess what he did to Udupi Resturant owners. The last I checked , these people were all Indians and mostly Hindu. And your point is: hence bal thackrey equal to medieval islamic invaders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani Bal Tackerey bogey comes everywhere be it sanjay dutt case or samjhauta express bombing. when secularists compare baal thakrey with blood thirsty islamic rulers of medieval time they do come of too desperate. difference in scale of violence perpetrated by two sides notwithstanding .. one at best is reactive and another out and out proactive both in action in belief.. Tell that all those poor folks from your home state , whose only sin was apparently taking rail exams in Mumbai. Heck , they couldn't even reach VT . They were thrashed in kalyan railway station itself by Shiv Sena thugs. Bal thackerey and his goons of targetted South Indians before in the 70's. So,DR , guess what he did to Udupi Resturant owners. The last I checked , these people were all Indians and mostly Hindu. And your point is: hence bal thackrey equal to medieval islamic invaders? He is worst !. At least you knew the enemy was medival islamic invaders back then. This guy is like a Trojan horse. He attacks Hindus first to get cheap political votes and then shifts his focus on muslims. Now ,back to Hindus vis-a-vis UP/ biharis. The last I checked , Kannadigas, Tamilians/Biharis / UPites are all Hindu indians and he has targetted them all. So much for his Hinduvta BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani MP answer my questions. Please :hmph: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani MP answer my questions. Please :hmph: DSR , I didn't see any abuse in your post this time around in that questionaire. I feel that MP should answer these questions probably in another thread. Even I am surprised that the some of the so called moderate muslims fail to criticize Sharia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani I actually think my questions are intersting and would be fascinated to see MPs answers on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MundaPakistani Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani MP, While your intentions are good .... but the fact remains that except for a brief period during Akbars time there was hardly any peace between the 2 communities ..... It would be ludicrous to call the time during Babar, Humayun ,Shahjahan ,Aurangzeb and later the Afghani looting of Delhi under Abdali at the invitation of Shah Wali Ullah as anything but peacfull. And I will give you a link about the 1857 war .... that gives you a better idea .... BB and DR, There was a relative peace in the land, considering that the Mughals ruled over 600 years there weren't many cases of religious violence, if anything it was the East India Company and in quite a few cases there was pressure put on both Muslims and Hindus to convert to Christianity. This was just one of the reasons that led both Hindu and Muslims to respond in the way in which they did in 1857. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MundaPakistani Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani I actually think my questions are intersting and would be fascinated to see MPs answers on them. Yaar i have told you that you can either search for the old thread and if you can't find it then just PM me...there are already quite a few controversial topics being discussed on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani Why wont you answer them? They are simply questions on religion and am simply curious to read your thoughts? Why would they be contreversial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani BB and DR, There was a relative peace in the land, considering that the Mughals ruled over 600 years there weren't many cases of religious violence, if anything it was the East India Company and in quite a few cases there was pressure put on both Muslims and Hindus to convert to Christianity. This was just one of the reasons that led both Hindu and Muslims to respond in the way in which they did in 1857. East india company never butchered anyone just because they were hindus or muslims.. So as per u there was calm and all fo a sudden jinnah saheb thought may be in future here won;t be calm so let us go our separate ways. God knwos what basias jinnah saheb thought so.. Childish games aside MP show me even one place in this face of earth where muslim minority is not indulged in separatist activity when they had got certain number equations right.. even one such place will do... Heck they are fighting for separate land in thailand of all places can u get more liberal and accepting than buddhists..IN china too they are active in oen state well they will have to get bigegr numbers to face communist.. anyway only thign changes is the critical mass to trigger the separatism wave otherwise same theme plays every where....... In canada of all places they have already started crying for shariah.. this is usally the step preceding separatism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani East india company never butchered anyone just because they were hindus or muslims What they did was no better. Lot of Indians (particularly Bengalis) died due to famines created by the EIC forcing farmers to grow cash-crops like Jute, Indigo,Cotton and tea over rice and food crops. Heck they are fighting for separate land in thailand of all places can u get more liberal and accepting than buddhists.. Yeah agreed. A few weeks ago i saw a report about muslim fundies in Thailand beheading a buddhist ice cream rickshaw guy. I mean ffs ! whats more benign than a buddhist ice cream man ?!? IN china too they are active in oen state well they will have to get bigegr numbers to face communist.. I am hoping that Al Qaeda and all these nutters that cry for Kashmir go raise their voices over Chinese Turkestan, where abuse and supression of Muslims are far far worse (hey its China! China abuses everybody- they don't discriminate between harmless tibetians and fundie turks). If that happens, radical Islam would be dealt with thoroughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Re: Interviewing Munda Pakistani My request to all these people is that if you want to bash the religion then first try to understand all the way. I suggest you read the Quran in it's ENTIRITY, discuss the issues with scholars, go to the Friday Salah and pay attention to what the Imam is saying and try to inquire about the environment of an average Muslim household. It is only then that you have the right to question the principals of a religion. The environment of an average muslim household might be crap or excellent...that has no bearing on the deeds/actions of MO or his teachings. If some muslims makes excuses for him or brush under the carpet the vicious parts of him then that does not change the actual teachings of the religion. I have read quran in it's entirety and come from a 99% muslim part of India. Bottom line is that you are brainwashed just like all religious people. I don't believe in flying Hindu monkeys just like I don't believe in flying winged donkey that took Mo to heaven :wtg: Edit- I believe in jumping monkeys though but not talking ones. Unless you are doing the monkey talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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