Important - please vote here.

[CC1981]

Re: Important - please vote here.

So CC , do you think this Al Gore is far real when he talks about global warming.

If you mean 'an inconvinient truth' , then yes, he is on the money - though it is just a simplistic, dumbed-down presentation to the public and he tries his best to score cheap political points ( the numerous ' i brought this up in the 70s..or when i was out of my crib' type comments). But the theory behind it is right on the money. As far as i am concerned, anyone who denies the evidence or the science behind global warming should re-attend undergraduate level sciences and actually pay attention this time around. The basic fact is, Gangotri and Jamnotri at current trends wont be around for more than 50 years. And the day that happens, you can kiss India goodbye. No way is India going to survive the drying up of the ganges-yamuna-brahmaputra-sutlej etc. So yes, i do think that what we are witnessing today is the final chapters of the oldest and the most accomplished civilization of mankind.

[yoda]

Re: Important - please vote here.

Three words: You are disturbed Four more words: Take a chill pill Another four: You have no clue Lastly: Relax for your own good

I take it this is yet another topic where you got your head firmly buried in your posterior. For if it were not so, you'd have presented atleast some credible counters instead of sounding like an old phart from the 60s denying global warming.

Everyone knows about global warming, DUH! Predicting that India as a country will collapse due to that in some randomly pulled out 50 years is idiotic, and is stupid even by your own standards.

[head coach]

Re: Important - please vote here. Not that alarming as CC explained But Global warming is gonna be the silent killer if no immediate measures are taken. In South India 3 states are fighting over one river for water. The latest Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has suggested widespread havoc by 2050 especially in Asia if this is not attended soon. So Yes Global Warming is dangerous situation and yes Al Gore if he runs for president will win :wtg:

[head coach]

Re: Important - please vote here.

Very well then ... so I take it that you prefer the hit-and-run ... methodology ... no surprises really ... So then in that case I think you deserve a mauled-and-run kinda response ... So here goes ... Dont get your panties wet just yet .... Jihadis like you masquarading as secularists is new fashion these days .... and I take immense pleasure in keeping you guys on the run without even having to resort to non-sensical bakwaas that you spout at the drop of the hat. So yeah as long as you keep doing it Iam here to "deal" with your bakwaas .... in a very very blunt way. Better luck next time :wtg:

Not eager to get down to your level at this time bai saheeb. And about that wet stuff you get, find some medication in a local pharmacy before it stinks all over the place.

[sandtest]

Re: Important - please vote here. Lo...abb yeh log...Global warming pe aa geye Bhai log...hamarey yehaa...abhi bhi..Poverty, hunger, lack of proper infrastructure and education jaisey serious problem hain... We will first resolve these problems then we will think about Global Warming... Bhai mere...we are not Amreeka...ek teref log khaaney ko taras rehen hain...aur yeh log Global warming kee baat kertey hain. :lmao:

[CC1981]

Re: Important - please vote here.

Predicting that India as a country will collapse due to that in some randomly pulled out 50 years is idiotic, and is stupid even by your own standards

If you don't know much about the topic, i'd expect you to have the cojones to say so. But what you lack in cojones is exposed by your sillyness anyways. A few facts for you : 1. '50 years' is not a randomly pulled out number for the recession of the gangotri 2. Over 500 million people in India alone are primarily dependent on the himalayan glacial melt-water for their basic needs. The himalayan-Tibetan-Pamir glacial systems are, conservatively i may add, expected to recede to 20 % of their 2000 size by 2050. The shortfall in water translates to an 'end of civilization' scenario. Forget India as a country- Asia as we know it will struggle to stay alive to fir India kiss kheth ki mooli haye ? I happen to know someone from University of British Columbia personally who happens to be one of the foremost authorities in global warming and if you really are interested in educating yourself about the enormty of the doomsday scenario facing India in this comming century, i will be happy to introduce you two.

[head coach]

Re: Important - please vote here.

Bhai log...hamarey yehaa...abhi bhi..Poverty' date=' hunger, lack of proper infrastructure and education jaisey serious problem hain...[/quote'] Sand, These problems are in front of your eyes but the other one hits you from behind through some natural calamity! BTW plant some mangroves when you get some time :wtg:

[Lurker]

Re: Important - please vote here.

My identity is with the people and their culture, not some triangular landmass with a turban resemblance. Nationalism implies love of the land - i don't have that. Tomorrow if all of India moved to Siberia, my India would be Siberia and the land of sapta-sindhu would become utterly meaningless - or atleast, no more meaningful than some obscure patch of land in Brazil or equitorial rainforest Papua New Guinea. Hence i am not a nationalist.

Fair point so lets get to the bottom of this now. You insinuate that the culture(in this case Bangla culture) is based off people and have absolutely nothing to do with land which you do not have. First of all please confirm that this is indeed the case so that there is no ambiguity. Secondly tell me 5 things about Bangla culture that appeals to you. Something you like, or are proud of. What I would appreciate is explicit arguments. In other words dont tell me "I love Begali music"....be more specific like, "I like Ravindra Sangeet...or Baul sangeet". xxxx

[CC1981]

Re: Important - please vote here.

Not that alarming as CC explained But Global warming is gonna be the silent killer if no immediate measures are taken. In South India 3 states are fighting over one river for water. The latest Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has suggested widespread havoc by 2050 especially in Asia if this is not attended soon. So Yes Global Warming is dangerous situation and yes Al Gore if he runs for president will win :wtg:

Dude, its way too late to do anything about global warming. Global warming is a cumulative effect. Not some magical meter with a 'safe, dangerous and deadly-red' zone for the needle to hover over. Its not like the needle is at the 'deadly' zone now and if we reduced greenhouse emissions ( or as Gore/environmentalists are so fond of using for comparison - 'pre 1970s level') then the 'needle' goes down to the 'safe' zone. You can make the entire greenhouse emissions come down to zero tomorrow and 50 years from now, the gangotri still will disappear. Why ? because global warming is a cumulative effect and the earth (thanks to we humans !) has lost way too much foliage to reduce the CO2 fast enough to counter-act the temperature buildup. So right now, the solution is not just totally stopping greenhouse emissions, we actually have to somehow re-process the greehouse gases out of the atmosphere while planting massive amounts of trees. None of that is gonna happen. So in short, yes, we are very much doomed.

[The Outsider]

Re: Important - please vote here.

I am still intrigued by how there are 9 votes for Culture/Religion/Language. I would want to know the logic behind this school of thought. More importantly what was the vote for - language or religion or culture? The three are mutually exclusive identities really. Would be nice if people could explain their point of view on this one.

I voted for the second option because without culture, language, and religion the concept of a country is vacuous. So what comes first is a pretty straight forward answer in my view. Cultures and civilizations have and will continue to exist even when there has been no concept of a nation.

[yoda]

Re: Important - please vote here.

Predicting that India as a country will collapse due to that in some randomly pulled out 50 years is idiotic, and is stupid even by your own standards

If you don't know much about the topic, i'd expect you to have the cojones to say so. But what you lack in cojones is exposed by your sillyness anyways. A few facts for you : 1. '50 years' is not a randomly pulled out number for the recession of the gangotri 2. Over 500 million people in India alone are primarily dependent on the himalayan glacial melt-water for their basic needs. The himalayan-Tibetan-Pamir glacial systems are, conservatively i may add, expected to recede to 20 % of their 2000 size by 2050. The shortfall in water translates to an 'end of civilization' scenario. Forget India as a country- Asia as we know it will struggle to stay alive to fir India kiss kheth ki mooli haye ? I happen to know someone from University of British Columbia personally who happens to be one of the foremost authorities in global warming and if you really are interested in educating yourself about the enormty of the doomsday scenario facing India in this comming century, i will be happy to introduce you two.

Show me a study (not one pulled out of your a$$) which predicts "end of civilization in India by 2050 due to global warming".

[The Outsider]

Re: Important - please vote here. Not sure about the 50 year scenario, but global warming is a very real, threatening, and politically underplayed scenario and needs to be brought to the limelight to preempt some truly catastrophic scenes in the future. But more importantly its not just the number "50 years". It might be 10, 100, or 500. Global predictions on how quickly the Earth reacts are very iffy but they all point towards the same direction ie. disaster if we dont clean up our act and real fast.

[head coach]

Re: Important - please vote here.

Not that alarming as CC explained But Global warming is gonna be the silent killer if no immediate measures are taken. In South India 3 states are fighting over one river for water. The latest Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has suggested widespread havoc by 2050 especially in Asia if this is not attended soon. So Yes Global Warming is dangerous situation and yes Al Gore if he runs for president will win :wtg:

Dude, its way too late to do anything about global warming. Global warming is a cumulative effect. Not some magical meter with a 'safe, dangerous and deadly-red' zone for the needle to hover over. Its not like the needle is at the 'deadly' zone now and if we reduced greenhouse emissions ( or as Gore/environmentalists are so fond of using for comparison - 'pre 1970s level') then the 'needle' goes down to the 'safe' zone. You can make the entire greenhouse emissions come down to zero tomorrow and 50 years from now, the gangotri still will disappear. Why ? because global warming is a cumulative effect and the earth (thanks to we humans !) has lost way too much foliage to reduce the CO2 fast enough to counter-act the temperature buildup. So right now, the solution is not just totally stopping greenhouse emissions, we actually have to somehow re-process the greehouse gases out of the atmosphere while planting massive amounts of trees. None of that is gonna happen. So in short, yes, we are very much doomed.

Monina, be optimistic read this book and find 101 solutions: http://www.amazon.ca/Stormy-weather-solutions-global-climate/dp/0865714215

[CC1981]

Re: Important - please vote here.

You insinuate that the culture(in this case Bangla culture) is based off people and have absolutely nothing to do with land which you do not have. First of all please confirm that this is indeed the case so that there is no ambiguity.

Could you please rephrase that ? I so totally failed to make sense of that.

Secondly tell me 5 things about Bangla culture that appeals to you. Something you like, or are proud of.

I am way too young to fully appreciate the scope of any culture, not just bengali culture. However, stuff bengali that appeals to me : 1. Bengali cuisine when it comes to fish 2. The most diverse and acclaimed saree-making tradition in the world 3. Rabindra Sangeet, Nazrul Geeti, Baul geeti 4. Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyaye, Sukumar Roy, Sarat Chandra, Satyajit Ray- their works, etc etc. 5. The still-surviving 'noonka-maajhi' ( boatmen) culture of the vast bengali waterways that is truely unique in its nature. I am not saying this because i am a bengali - but it is a fact that over the last 200/250 years, the bengali culture has been the most productive/illustrious culture from the subcontinent and Bengalis played the major part in forming the modern indian conciousness as well as much of its core philosophies. I think that fact is illustrated by the unparalleled ( amongst indians) luminaries from Bengal in this time period.

[Lurker]

Re: Important - please vote here.

I voted for the second option because without culture, language, and religion the concept of a country is vacuous. So what comes first is a pretty straight forward answer in my view. Cultures and civilizations have and will continue to exist even when there has been no concept of a nation.

Shwetabh. The question here is NOT that what exists when other doesn't. The question is what comes to you first. Who cares if a language survives more than a country does? I mean in this billion year old planet a nation survives for 200 years and a language 1000 year. Big deal!!! Out of percentage of human years how would that compare? Say 0.0000067 for language and 0.00000061 for country. Big difference indeed!!! And why are we indeed worries about demise here? All me, you and everyone else has to worry about is 100 years of our life that we live on this planet and for that 100 years India comes ahead for me than Bihari culture. Heck what is Bihari culture? We have 3 major languages(if not more) - Magahi(from Magadh), Bhojpuri(Patna), Maithili(North Bihar/Nepal). All within same state! I am as pukka Bihari as they come but India comes first. xxx

[The Outsider]

Re: Important - please vote here.

The question here is NOT that what exists when other doesn't.

But it is. The very idea of a country is nebulous to say the least without other primary, fundamental factors which in one way or the other bind a certain population into an emotional bond.

[CC1981]

Re: Important - please vote here.

Show me a study (not one pulled out of your a$$) which predicts "end of civilization in India by 2050 due to global warming".

End of civilization is my extrapolation. But i can show you several studies that predict the Gangotri to be less than 80% its size ( ie, effectively ending the ganga) in 50 years time. And if you think i am pulling this 'end of civilization' stuff out of my a$$ or from smoking some good weed, i think you are utterly deluded to think that a country where more than half its population ( and that amounts to over 500 million) depend on glacial melt-water of the Ganga-yamuna river basin could survive the drying up of its main source of water. WTF do you think will happen from haryana to bengal when there is no water to drink, irrigate or run your tanneries on because the ganges dried up ? If that is not an 'end of civilization' scenario, i don't know what is. History already shows us that our civilization collapsed once due to the death of a river ( the Saraswati river drying up) and that was only due to tectonic events that re-directed the water along different channels - the sutlej joined the indus, the yamuna joined the ganga and poor saraswati dried up. But the total flow of water was constant and despite collapsing, our civilization managed to rebound because of that. Now, with the very source of the water (himalayan glaciers) going away really fast, the total volume of water itself is going to fall dramatically. And just like IVC, this current Indian civilization too will collapse i think. Just that this time it will be far far worse because this is not a local event but a global event.

[CC1981]

Re: Important - please vote here.

The question here is NOT that what exists when other doesn't.

But it is. The very idea of a country is nebulous to say the least without other primary, fundamental factors which in one way or the other bind a certain population into an emotional bond.

Bingo ! And this is why country cannot come before culture and in the grand scheme of things, rarely does. One way of looking at what is more important is to ask yourself what is more fundamental/basic ? For eg., is it more important for me to make a trip to China or have enough food to eat ? The answer to that is obvious. Similarly, a 'nation' is a concept that is formed on the back of culture and therefore, culture is more basic. You cannot have a nation without a culture but you sure can have a culture without a nation - our history is proof of that. That is why nation is secondary to culture. What defines us as Indians and gives us our own unique identity that is different from that of an Arab or Chinese or an European is not our country's borders but our culture.

[Lurker]

Re: Important - please vote here.

Could you please rephrase that ? I so totally failed to make sense of that.

Sure. What I mean is this. You insinuate that the culture(in this case Bangla culture) is based off people and have absolutely nothing to do with land. You consider Nationalism as love for land, an emotion you do not share. In your case love for culture is basically love for its people.

However, stuff bengali that appeals to me : 1. Bengali cuisine when it comes to fish

So lets get to the bottom of this now. The first thing you suggested is your love for fish. A trait shared by most Bengalis. Now can you help me understand how would Bengalis develop this love for fish, rohu/katla and what have you, had they not actually lived and flourished in the exact location they are in? The land of Hubli, Damodar and Sunderban delta. You mentioned somewhere that you would still love Bengali culture is Bengalis move to Siberia. Are you telling me you would love fish?? Heck do they have fish in Siberia?

2. The most diverse and acclaimed saree-making tradition in the world

Disagreed with the "most diverse" claim. There are tons of great beavers in Bhagalpur who can diss out what they produce on other side of Ganges. Not to mention Benares etc. However the question is not "most" thingy. The question is why is Bengal rich in saree making tradition? The answer to that would be the rich silk, muslin or malmal(remember the phrase Dhaake ki Malmal) that Bengal, Orrissa and Bihari artisans have access to. And why did they have access to this and not say Delhi waalahs? Well the sea route to Java, China etc. DO you see the part geographical location plays here?

4. Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyaye, Sukumar Roy, Sarat Chandra, Satyajit Ray- their works, etc etc.

The works of most of these great artists(specially Bankim and Sharat Chandra) are but a reflection of the Bengali land and its situation there in. You can practically pick out a Sharad Chandra novel and see West Bengal of 19th century right there. If you take a Sharad Chandra and put him in London are you telling me you would still like his works?

5. The still-surviving 'noonka-maajhi' ( boatmen) culture of the vast bengali waterways that is truely unique in its nature.

Indeed. And one aspecy that has so enriched Indian movie music. Right from the songs of "O Majhi Re" to "Mere Saajan hai us paar, main iss paar". No wonder SD Burman and RD Burman worked wonders with such folk based music. The question then is can you have this Maanjhi culture without the rivers, without the deltas and what have you? Why doesnt a Gujrati movie have a Maanjhi song? Why doesnt a movie set in Delhi has an actor reminscing on a boat? Why are Bhojpuri actresses seen praying to Ganges singing, "Ganga Maaiya tore piyari charaiho?". Why does a JP Dutta make movie in Rajasthan and why is Uttam Kumar seen on a boat in a Bangla movie? It is the geography my friend that defines culture. The land, the rivers, the mountains, the valleys that leaves its imprints on the culture. You are mistaken if you think its just land. xxxxxxx

[CC1981]

Re: Important - please vote here.

You insinuate that the culture(in this case Bangla culture) is based off people and have absolutely nothing to do with land. You consider Nationalism as love for land, an emotion you do not share. In your case love for culture is basically love for its people.

Yes. That would be accurate.

So lets get to the bottom of this now. The first thing you suggested is your love for fish. A trait shared by most Bengalis. Now can you help me understand how would Bengalis develop this love for fish, rohu/katla and what have you, had they not actually lived and flourished in the exact location they are in? The land of Hubli, Damodar and Sunderban delta. You mentioned somewhere that you would still love Bengali culture is Bengalis move to Siberia. Are you telling me you would love fish?? Heck do they have fish in Siberia?

I don't get this - obviously if Bengalis moved to Siberia and then started eating reindeer, i'd then be the bengali culture. But yes, its obviously due to the location - location influences culture far more than arbitary lines on a map. Thats what i've been saying all along. So are you unwittingly agreeing with me ? :hic: