yoda Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark I have already said why he used the term Dravida - its for the rhyme. I'd like the touchie southie here to substitute dravida with karnatak-kerala-andhra-tamil nadu and get the anthem to rhyme. And again - this is yet another example of a touchie southie getting worked up over nothing. There are several places Tagore didnt mention. Nothing more than nitpicking in my opinion. what a mornic explanation. the guy was simply indifferent to the lower half of the country trying to covering it all with one word. anyways, my respect for the anthem is for the fact that it is the national anthem, definitely not for it's (selective) words or for the writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark what a mornic explanation. Moronic ? If you think the choice of words in a poem/lyric is not influenced by their ryhme ability, then you know utterly squat about lyrics and poetry. Take it from someone who is the son of a professional singer/composer. Like i said - try using any of the words thrown out by your fellow mate 'touchie southie' and get the poem to ryme. Go ahead- try Cauvery, try Tamil , Tamil nad, Tamil nadu, karnataka, kerala, malayalam, kannada, andhra, etc etc. and stick it in there. As i said, he classifies the southernmost four states as Dravida - its no big deal to harp on because he doesnt even mention the seven sister states - except for classifying them with himalaya. If you actually tried to approach this as a song and then an anthem, you would realize that tagore is actually naming ALL of akhanda bharatam in his poem. I like this anthem simply because rarely is an anthem descriptive of a nation and i think that super. And lets face it, there is no point in even thinking about changing it if we wanted to retain the idea of an anthem describing a nation. There are so many zillions of individual elements in India that naming all of them would be impossible. And to make it a stupidly ideological poem without any description of the nation it is about would be a very sad thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark no, i am not allowed to play music or sing at work.... how come ur wild imagination never thought of this possible reason.... Kya? Some job is more important than patriotism now!! Chhaa!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark i didnt play it, hence didnt stand up... why u refusing to remove ur head from inside ur bottom, mad-prof.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailesh Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark shame on murthy..and there was a talk of this guy to be nominated for Prez? :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Moronic ? If you think the choice of words in a poem/lyric is not influenced by their ryhme ability, then you know utterly squat about lyrics and poetry. Take it from someone who is the son of a professional singer/composer. Yea right. Disregarding lower half of a country in writing a national anthem in one word cause he couldn't find more than one which rhymed with the rest of the song to describe them. :hmph: I am sure your dad has a better explanation if he is a pro singer/composer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Disregarding lower half of a country in writing a national anthem in one word cause he couldn't find more than one which rhymed with the rest of the song to describe them. Lower half ? Boy is your geography wonky.He used Dravida for four states only. He didnt disregard it- he did mention the lower half by dravida. What you fail to understand is that some regions were represented by their geography and some regions by their tongue- it is far harder to define bengal/gujrat/punjab/maratha/sindh/orissa by using any geographical features and its not a seperate linguistic tree like Dravidian languages are. Thus while using Dravida can describe the south, you cannot describe bengal/maratha etc. in the context of the poem (ie, in one word) without the way Tagore did. Ofcourse, you would not know such things because you've never sat down and treated the anthem as a song in your own words. I am sure your dad has a better explanation if he is a pro singer/composer. 1. My dad is not a pro singer/composer. My mother is. 2. No one can be certain of why a poet picks the word he/she does but it is commonly accepted in Bengali circles that Tagore's works have always been heavily influenced by his desire for symmetry and as i said - using dravida in the narrative works a helluva lot better than Tamil Nad/Karnatak/Kerala etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Oh and if you think you can find better words than Dravida to encompass all four of the southern states AND keep the poem cohesive, be my guest. Go ahead and try - you can play around with the geographical/linguistic order of mention and squeeze in your beloved four states somewhere but i can garantee you that it will sound a lot sillier than using Dravida. I think you doth protest too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Disregarding lower half of a country in writing a national anthem in one word cause he couldn't find more than one which rhymed with the rest of the song to describe them. Lower half ? Boy is your geography wonky.He used Dravida for four states only. I am sure your dad has a better explanation if he is a pro singer/composer. 1. My dad is not a pro singer/composer. My mother is. 2. No one can be certain of why a poet picks the word he/she does but it is commonly accepted in Bengali circles that Tagore's works have always been heavily influenced by his desire for symmetry and as i said - using dravida in the narrative works a helluva lot better than Tamil Nad/Karnatak/Kerala etc etc. Let me help you here. Jana-Gana-Mana-Adhinayaka, Jaya He Bharata-Bhagya-Vidhata Punjab-Tamil-Gujarata-Maratha- Kerala-Utkala-Kannada Line 3 of states Line 4 of more states Vindhya-Himachala-Yamuna-Ganga Ucchhala-Jaladhi Taranga Tava Subha Name Jage Tava Subha Ashisha Mage Gahe Tava Jaya Gatha. Jana-Gana-Mangala Dayaka, Jaya He Bharata-Bhagya-Vidhata, Jaya He, Jaya He, Jaya He, Jaya Jaya Jaya, Jaya He Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Punjab-Tamil-Gujarata-Maratha Tamil does not rhyme in there. Moreover, the naming is in groups of three - you cannot just 'stick' in another one and expect the poem to keep its form. Tagore is describing entire India as one land by its language or geography. There is nothing for the southies to complain about, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Btw even selection of jan gan man was because the band could play it better but then again all these things are commentary basic sentiment matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Btw even selection of jan gan man was because the band could play it better Anecdotes and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Disregarding lower half of a country in writing a national anthem in one word cause he couldn't find more than one which rhymed with the rest of the song to describe them. Lower half ? Boy is your geography wonky.He used Dravida for four states only. I am sure your dad has a better explanation if he is a pro singer/composer. 1. My dad is not a pro singer/composer. My mother is. 2. No one can be certain of why a poet picks the word he/she does but it is commonly accepted in Bengali circles that Tagore's works have always been heavily influenced by his desire for symmetry and as i said - using dravida in the narrative works a helluva lot better than Tamil Nad/Karnatak/Kerala etc etc. Let me help you here. Jana-Gana-Mana-Adhinayaka, Jaya He Bharata-Bhagya-Vidhata Punjab-Tamil-Gujarata-Maratha- Kerala-Utkala-Kannada Line 3 of states Line 4 of more states Vindhya-Himachala-Yamuna-Ganga Ucchhala-Jaladhi Taranga Tava Subha Name Jage Tava Subha Ashisha Mage Gahe Tava Jaya Gatha. Jana-Gana-Mangala Dayaka, Jaya He Bharata-Bhagya-Vidhata, Jaya He, Jaya He, Jaya He, Jaya Jaya Jaya, Jaya He be happy man tagore didn't consider southern part subservient to some tin-pot king of britain.. actually it's a compliment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Btw even selection of jan gan man was because the band could play it better Anecdotes and nothing more. vacuuous spin-doctoring are those anecdotal claims nothing else.. i have already proven how and why in ur other thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Here are the facts. In Calcutta session of INC which began on 16 Dec 1911 King George V was to be guest and he was to be there on second day of the seeion please note second day not first day. INC had approached Tagore for a welcome poem for the king and he penned those and handed it to INC. Yeats one of the admirer of Tagore claimed he was very disturbed over this request of poem of welcome [ Translation he may not have wanted to write eulogy but bottomline is he did] . Anyway I am not going to read much into this given he was not averse to accepting Knighthood which he later on relinquished ( after jalianwala bagh massacre). So him writing some poem eulogising king doesn't seem out of question. I wud have laughed if someone had said Subhash chandra Bose penned some euology somewhere for king which is not the case here. Point to note u invoke God in any conference on very first day in the beginning given tagore was tallest of personality in litaray world in those times so one can't really claim some other poem or verse was given precedence over Tagore's poem for the opening day solilcitation of God's good-will mercy whatever. Tagore's poem was sung in the beginning of second day which was fully booked for King's program, as a token of introduction to the King. Spin doctors now claim that once again God was invoked on second day of session but to any impartial eye that claim sounds vacuuous we don't see practice of invoking almighty everyday in any conference anywhere unless of course it's religious conference then well every session is kind of invokation of GOD. BTW Tagore didn't refute the claim either for quite some time so if any refutation came it was an after-thought. Anyway for me my feeling matters while singing any song. As tulsidas would say, "Jaaki rahi bhawana jaisi, prabhu murat dekhi teen taisi." PS: CC by claiming that it was not eulogy of King u are putting believers section of indian in yet another quandary viz a viz Jan Gan Man too so far only Vande Mataram has that distincition. Technically speaksing they should have problem with this kind of Godly eulogy of King too but historically it has been seen they don't find much problem with worshipping white one way or another. It's the hindu symbolism they find objectionable. Even during indepdence socalled muslim league indepedence movement leaders at best used to be indifferent towards throwing the yoke of british rule. Jinnah saheb used to get active only when sensing INC is closing in to achieve sthg. Even Sir Sayayad Ahmed Khan had no problem with English rule. PPS: We don't have to show our heros above every kind of reproach. It's oke if he wrote that as King's eulogy bottomline is that how we perceive it as of today. It's a damn beautiful verse to say the least. _________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Disregarding lower half of a country in writing a national anthem in one word cause he couldn't find more than one which rhymed with the rest of the song to describe them. Lower half ? Boy is your geography wonky.He used Dravida for four states only. I am sure your dad has a better explanation if he is a pro singer/composer. 1. My dad is not a pro singer/composer. My mother is. 2. No one can be certain of why a poet picks the word he/she does but it is commonly accepted in Bengali circles that Tagore's works have always been heavily influenced by his desire for symmetry and as i said - using dravida in the narrative works a helluva lot better than Tamil Nad/Karnatak/Kerala etc etc. Let me help you here. Jana-Gana-Mana-Adhinayaka, Jaya He Bharata-Bhagya-Vidhata Punjab-Tamil-Gujarata-Maratha- Kerala-Utkala-Kannada Line 3 of states Line 4 of more states Vindhya-Himachala-Yamuna-Ganga Ucchhala-Jaladhi Taranga Tava Subha Name Jage Tava Subha Ashisha Mage Gahe Tava Jaya Gatha. Jana-Gana-Mangala Dayaka, Jaya He Bharata-Bhagya-Vidhata, Jaya He, Jaya He, Jaya He, Jaya Jaya Jaya, Jaya He Excellent Rhyming Yoda. This CC is Typical Bong who knows jack sh$it about South India. This regional minded Bong accuses me of being touchy southie time and again and routinely takes cheap shots at South Indians. I know for a fact that even you feel the same way. Who the heck he thinks he has to speak on behalf of south indians . I for one am more interested in the opinion of South Indians and fair minded North Indians than a misguided Buddhist Bong about the fact that south india is adequately represented in the National anthem by this bengali Tagore or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark I have already said why he used the term Dravida - its for the rhyme. I'd like the touchie southie here to substitute dravida with karnatak-kerala-andhra-tamil nadu and get the anthem to rhyme. And again - this is yet another example of a touchie southie getting worked up over nothing. There are several places Tagore didnt mention. Nothing more than nitpicking in my opinion. A regional minded buddhist bong like you need not tell me whether national anthem is representative of south indians or not. After all , he is a bong like you and you will naturally support him. And Why the heck did he have to mention Bengal , Punjab, Gujarat etc. He could have used "Uthara" to describe entire North India just like "Dravida" for south india. Only a linguistic clanish bengali like you will see nothing wrong in south indians being ignored like this. FYI , I am an Indian first , then kannadiga ,not a Dravida. What are you BTW , a "Uthara" ? . I have noticed that bengalis like you want to be called bengalis , not north Indians and have the gall to call me south indian , not a kanadiga. That sucks man. Anyway , I am sick and tired of you taking cheap shots at south indians. Is it because we are a minority ? :shrug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark what a mornic explanation. Moronic ? If you think the choice of words in a poem/lyric is not influenced by their ryhme ability, then you know utterly squat about lyrics and poetry. Take it from someone who is the son of a professional singer/composer. Like i said - try using any of the words thrown out by your fellow mate 'touchie southie' and get the poem to ryme. Go ahead- try Cauvery, try Tamil , Tamil nad, Tamil nadu, karnataka, kerala, malayalam, kannada, andhra, etc etc. and stick it in there. As i said, he classifies the southernmost four states as Dravida - its no big deal to harp on because he doesnt even mention the seven sister states - except for classifying them with himalaya. If you actually tried to approach this as a song and then an anthem, you would realize that tagore is actually naming ALL of akhanda bharatam in his poem. I like this anthem simply because rarely is an anthem descriptive of a nation and i think that super. And lets face it, there is no point in even thinking about changing it if we wanted to retain the idea of an anthem describing a nation. There are so many zillions of individual elements in India that naming all of them would be impossible. And to make it a stupidly ideological poem without any description of the nation it is about would be a very sad thing to do. Again , a clanish , regional minded linguistic bong will obviously like the anthem written by a fellow bengali. Looks like you know jack shi.t about South India. If the author had any knowledge about south india , he could have used words like Krishna instead of Yamuna river and it would have rhymed perfectly. And why the heck did the author mention bengal explicitly . Why not a southern state like Andhra ? Shows his regional mentality. And the gall of CC to indirectly criticize US national anthem which has no mention of any states by calling it ideological stupid. Goes it show who is stupid here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Where are Kashmir, Harayana, UP, MP, Rajasthan, Bihar, Assam etc. etc. Atleast, South India was mentioned as a collective unit what about these and many more states. I dont see many raising a fuss over that. Where are Brahmaputra, Gandak, Kosi, Gomti rivers? Why only mention of Ganga and Yamuna? What about the Aravalli Hills, Nilgiri Hills? Why mention only Himalayas and Vindhyas? Much ado about nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Re: Murthy apologises for anthem remark Why shouldn't entire North India be mentioned as a single collective unit and be called "Uthara" or whatever is the word for it. Why should south indians only have this unique privilege. After all we are different people with different identities. That's why , in my opinion this national anthem should be scrapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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