Must watch for 9/11 conspiracy theorist

[Zooter]

Perhaps you guys would now like to answer my questions? 1) How did Building #7 fall? Pretend I don't even exist--take everything out of your mind. Just think for yourself. Imagine you are a detective completely on your own. A steel framed building simply collapsed on it's own due to fire? Fire from what? Fireballs that fell off from the twin towers? Never in the history of steel buildings can a fire (from jet fuel or whatever) actually melt steel to implode a building like #7. So how can it fall? ... just give it some thought. 2) How is it that the initial hole in the Pentagon was 16 feet wide? How can a place get "sucked into" a hole smaller than the plane? And where are the parts? Sure, the wings will be heavily damaged, as will the engines--but you should at least be able to see them--no one saw them. Even the reporters were saying ... "There's just no plane here." How is the grass immaculate? Can a passenger airliner fly just a few feet above the ground and cleanly hit a builiding wall? Wouldn't it "bounce" off the ground just a tad? How amazing was this terrorist pilot? And how did it vaporize after impact? No traces left except those little itty-bitty things you can stuff in the trunk of your own car.

[Zooter]

One little thing to append: you will believe me once you see the facts with an open mind. Imagine an axe being struck into a tree ... will the wood melt and the stump simply implode and fall at free-fall speed into the ground? Well, ... that's what steel-structured buildings are like. A plane slicing through them and causing fire CAN'T melt the building and cause to wither into itself--they just stay standing. Don't think of the building as made out of clay or legos or papier-mache, ... ... think of ... as the designer said, ... a network of something like mosquito webbing. And imagine a pencil being thrust into it. Will the entire net melt and collapse?? ... Then ask yourself: holy sh*t, ... ... how did I not know this? The answer: because the images that would prove it to you HAVE BEEN HIDDEN. You never saw that Kennedy footage before, did you? The Secret Service themselves telling the agents to stand down? You think Lee Harvey Oswald himself yelled at them from the Book Depository Building and they all obeyed?!? Or the photo of Kennedy's head being blown BACK--how can a gun shot come from the back and then enter the front of his head and then blow his head back. You saw those videos because people secretly kept them. The gov't has been trying to hide them and destroy them. Same with the Pentagon--the Gov't won't release the tens of other camera shots of the Pentagon wall being hit by whatever it was--if it was in fact a plane hijacked by terrorists -- then why not just release the damn tape and put everyone at ease?

[THX_1138]

dear zooter, let me answer your last post as i feel that little thing called reading that i do, uniquely equips me with the tools needed to dispell some of your misconceptions:

I can answer all your queries. I must repeat: the fact of the matter is' date=' most firefighers, cops, scientists and FBI agents now know that extra-governmental forces of the U.S. Gov't were involved. There has been a secret hand (the gov't inside the gov't, if you will) at work for quite some time in many projects. The people leading the charge (who hate Giuliani for instance) are the firefighters (that's right ... [b']the NYFD HATES Giuliani), the scientists, and the family members who lost loved ones on 9/11. They're the ones who have been stiffed over and over again from finding the truth--but it is finally getting out. About 40% of the American public now say they know the U.S. Gov't was involved--no joke--the secret is getting out.

of all that you wrote there, that is the only true phrase. and the reason? well simple the mismanagement of the 9/11 disaster, especially the post traumatic disorders suffered by the firefighters and other volunteers due to inhalation of arsenic laden gases near ground zero when the director of the EPA (a bush appointed partisan hack) said that the air near ground zero was not harmful for human beings (a statement she of course denies making today, inspite of having her on tape saying so). thus, this mismanagement and the later refusal of medical claims of the fire department led to this distrust and dislike of giuliani.

The CIA is part of the gov't inside the gov't--they are the agency that helps orchestrate an attack like 9/11. If you remember the video I posted some weeks back, ... it was Michael Ruppert (ex-FBI Agent) who blew the lid on the CIA bringing in hard drugs into the U.S. in order to generate more liquid money transfer into the banking circles--and they're still doing this ... this is why Gov't officials right now are saying that the poppy crop in Taliban has increased by hundreds of percent from it's almost complete extermination under the Taliban (the one thing those basturds got right). Afghanistan is now the #1 producer of illicit drugs from being off the map completely--this during America and NATO's occupation of the country. If you remember, the Iran Contra Affair happened with the involvement of Oliver North and other shady characters, but not the majority of the Senators of the U.S. Gov't!

true, the columbian drug trade was started by the CIA and in particular, it was not for the Iran Contra issue where they used drug money, the drug money was used to fuel wars in El Salvador where the populist government attempted to nationalize the plantations owned by San Dole fruit company (the very same company whose monopoly was challenged by Queen Lulinquina or whatever he name was and to save the business interests, united states annexed Hawaii) and to fuel the war against the left wing sandanistas in Nicaragua. it was also used to help the likes of douglas pinochet in chile. the trade is no long in the hand of the CIA. its run by the medeline cartels in collaboration with the tihuana cartels.

So, in sum, ... my answer is this: 1) most gov't officials don't know that it was the extra-governmental forces at work ... they do honestly think that a plane hit the Pentagon, and that Building #7 must have just melted from the inside-out or something, and that jet airliners can destroy two towers causing them to fall at free-fall speed (another physics impossibility--just as impossible as if I asked you to reach escape velocity and land on the moon using just your leg muscles ... to ... uhh hmm ... ... jump really fast).

best explained as you talking out of the wrong end of your alimentary canal. i wonder what that analogy if it can even be called one has anything to do with the discussion. the buildings collapsed because the fires started by the ignited furniture and jet fuel weakened the steel strusses, remember steel loses its tangential strength rather quickly when heated.

2) the Officials that do know what really happened are part of the conspiracy--it does go high and reach far.

i love that "the officials". yeah i know, the black helicopters, the bright lights, and them all. seriously zooter were you abducted by aliens and then did they perform experiments on you? you know the, anal probe routine...

3) the intelligence agencies of the world laugh at the prospect that America suffered a genuine terrorist attack on 9/11--Russian Intelligence, Asian intelligence, etc. all have stated that it was a false-flag event.

of course you will have no press releases or statements or articles or op ed pieces to supplement that would you. just a friend of a friend of a friend who works for an intelligence agency barfed these details over a night of drinking and debarchary.

And as for the issue of the national debt--excellent point. A culture of a "War on Terror" has now officially been started by the powers that be. That's why the Patriot Act was created and that's why America is going to go to war with EVERYONE--looks like Iran is next. People are losing sight of the cost of war--except for a notable few like Ron Paul or Obama or ... ... actually there's many more. Look how far Vietnam went -- for decades!! And what happened? America accomplished nothing. The VC won, the U.S. had to leave with thousands of war dead and unmeasurable debt ... the same cycle is happening again. What do the bankers care?? They own the banking network which issues loans to teh U.S. Gov't -- more gov't debt is more money in their pockets for generations to come. That's the scam that's been going on for sooooo long ... .. the Rothschild family of Europe perfected it: they would fund both sides of a conflict and get money no matter who won or lost.

shows how much you know about american history. america was in vietnam since they felt that communism had to be contained, then they staged to gulf of tonkein incident to escalate their activities, but what happened eventually? chinese and russian gun runners managed to finance and arm the VC who eventually overrun the unprepared americans. victory was out of the question within the first year of combat when generals noticed how the terrain neutralized american weaponry. but did the americans leave? no they did not, till wall street felt the effects of the war. when the stock indices crashed, american involvement reduced. do this for an exercise instead of posting crap: graph the stock indicies of united states and the troop strength in vietnam on a graph and notice how well they fit each other. as long as financing the war was profitable for private agencies (like it is today for haliburton, becktel, exxon etc), the war was promoted, but once the drain of resources lead to a market crash, the americans seem to instantaneously withdraw. research this author: Robert Buzzanco. he has written some brilliant books, especially on the vietnam war and he explains rather well, with economic and statistical evidence, how american involvement in vietnam interacted with the economy back home.

[feverpitch]

It wasn't just the plantation owners who had slaves- almost every middle class/upper middle class Americans had slaves- not by the dozens like the plantation owners but atleast one or two. Therefore, it is a national responsibility to be borne by the collective, not to hide behind the referendum argument.

lets not forget the father of the merkin constitution, the champion of individual rights of human beings... ... ... and slave trader, Thomas Jefferson

[sandtest]

Zoots, Let me repeat what the guy in the cartoon says ... How the fack do you get thousands of FBI agents, fire fighters, cops , scientists , CIA yada ... yada .. yada to STFU and keep it a secret .... Ohhh and what did America GAIN from it all ? A country with a Budget surplus back in 2000 now is in deep sheet

Spot on!....no one should care reading all those lengthy justification for conspiracy theories....The above statement sums it up well. There definately will be one patriotic Amreekan who will break ranks with so called "Planners" in Bush Admin. and spill the beans. This is where all conspiracy theories end. For example history of Amreekan democracy has seen presidents such as Nixon who carried out secret bombing in Cambodia, carefully involving trusted few in CIA, but he got exposed later on. By the way, a few years back there was one more conspiracy theory doing the round -- "AMREEKA NEVER LANDED ON MOON AND ENTIRE EPISODE WAS SHOT IN A STUDIO" What happened to this conspiracy theory??....It died it's natural death. Conclusion is conspiracy theories are a product of fertile mind of those senile people who happen to be self-apologetic / sympathisers. They will die their natural death as usual. "Satyamev Jayte" --- TRUTH ALONE TRIUMPHS.

[CC1981]

There definately will be one patriotic Amreekan who will break ranks with so called "Planners" in Bush Admin. and spill the beans. This is where all conspiracy theories end.

You really have no idea how the governments work. neither does your lackeys here. I'd recommend reading Chanakya or Machiavelli- they are the blueprints on which ALL non-communist governments have been based since the last 300 years, atleast when it comes to governance. For one, there is no need for thousands of govt. officials etc. being in cahoots for a 9/11 US involvement- just like there was no need for thousands of people in cahoots for US running syphilis experiments on its own people or for deliberately letting Pearl Harbour happen. Simple fact is, it requires only a very small core of people- from the CIA/NSA- to do everything that is required and simply play the 'national security' card to shut up any investigation and challenges. I don't know if you realize this but in ALL goverments, the 'need to know' protocol is followed. When Sharif claimed that he didnt know Musharrif was moving nukes into Kashmir, he could very well have been right- there are still lots of things the US President or our Prime Minister doesnt know and is filled in only when it is necessary. As far as the rather ridiculous argument of what 'America has to gain from this', well here is a newsflash for you - American government does not CARE about what America has to gain from it. What they care about is what THEY and their particular LOBBY groups stand to gain from it. Its just that simple- its simply business. If it wern't so, US education, healthcare and social service would not have been weakened so severely in the last 30 years to give tax-breaks to the really rich. The biggest benefactor to the 9/11 fiasco and Iraq is not America, it is America's DEFENCE INDUSTRY- which happens to be America's biggest business sector.

For example history of Amreekan democracy has seen presidents such as Nixon who carried out secret bombing in Cambodia, carefully involving trusted few in CIA, but he got exposed later on.

He got exposed due to accident- some Democrats wire-tapped Nixon and produced evidence- such things are near impossible to do now.

What happened to this conspiracy theory??....It died it's natural death.

So what ? What does that have to do with this- not all conspiracy theories are right obviously- but not all are bull$hit either. This all or nothing approach underscores your ignorance on the topic more than any other quantum truth.

Conclusion is conspiracy theories are a product of fertile mind of those senile people who happen to be self-apologetic / sympathisers.

Fertile mind ? yes i do have a fertile mind indeed but i also happen to be an engineer. And if you are willing to dispute an engineer's extrapolation of a phenomena, you better be an engineer yourself or else you have no grounds to contest the judgement of someone specializing in applied science and dealing with an applied science phenomena. If you wish to debate the physics behind the Pentagon attack or the 9/11 tower collapse, be my guest but if you think that the government story matches up to what we all saw, i will be left with no other alternative but to question your understanding of applied science.

"Satyamev Jayte" --- TRUTH ALONE TRIUMPHS.

Thats a nice soundbyte but truth is usually the first casualty of a propaganda war. I will repeat it to you: the events of 9/11 that were shown on television and the subsequent govt. explanations do not match on a scientific and probability basis. Three buildings collapsing on its footprints due to an uncontrolled event in the space of 24 hours is more coincidental than you getting struck by lightning, hit by a car, run over by a bicycle and hit by meteorite on the same day. Consider that for a moment before you become too keen to buy the goobledegook fed to you. Similar goobledegook was fed to the American public about Pearl Harbour, Gulf of Tonkin, CONTRA etc. and they fell for it hook,line & sinker as well.

[CC1981]

the buildings collapsed because the fires started by the ignited furniture and jet fuel weakened the steel strusses, remember steel loses its tangential strength rather quickly when heated.

Except that steel doesn't melt at the temperature at which the jet fuel burns and a temperature magnification event (where a contained reaction is heating up because it is exothermic) is inapplicable to a scenario where you have a plane barging into a building and there are big gaping holes in the structure- your containment factor that is necessary to magnify the temperature is missing. Its just that simple, really. PS: Have you figured out yet just which X-files episode was the Tuskagee experiments on or are you still intent to talk about issues you do not understand very well ?

[THX_1138]

lets not forget the father of the merkin constitution' date=' the champion of individual rights of human beings... ... ... and slave trader, Thomas Jefferson[/quote'] i resent that... he is a founding father of a country very dear to me and a personal hero. he was by no means a slave trader, he owned slaves and he dutifully freed them, infact he embraced his black wife and the children they had... he was one of the first few to suggest that all men be held equal including black americans. your remarks are malicious, misinformed and rather derogatory. had i been a lesser man i would have ripped your heart out for such a thoughtless insult but its thomas jefferson's very ideals that teach me otherwise. you owe all americans here and all over an apology, you dont see anyone saying things about gandhi, nehru, valabhai patel do u?

[THX_1138]

Except that steel doesn't melt at the temperature at which the jet fuel burns and a temperature magnification event (where a contained reaction is heating up because it is exothermic) is inapplicable to a scenario where you have a plane barging into a building and there are big gaping holes in the structure- your containment factor that is necessary to magnify the temperature is missing. Its just that simple, really. PS: Have you figured out yet just which X-files episode was the Tuskagee experiments on or are you still intent to talk about issues you do not understand very well ?

listen dickweed, heat a steel bar under tremendous stress, once it loses adequate tangential strength, it will collapse under the weight it is supporting.

[THX_1138]

Spot on!....no one should care reading all those lengthy justification for conspiracy theories....The above statement sums it up well. There definately will be one patriotic Amreekan who will break ranks with so called "Planners" in Bush Admin. and spill the beans. This is where all conspiracy theories end. For example history of Amreekan democracy has seen presidents such as Nixon who carried out secret bombing in Cambodia, carefully involving trusted few in CIA, but he got exposed later on. By the way, a few years back there was one more conspiracy theory doing the round -- "AMREEKA NEVER LANDED ON MOON AND ENTIRE EPISODE WAS SHOT IN A STUDIO" What happened to this conspiracy theory??....It died it's natural death. Conclusion is conspiracy theories are a product of fertile mind of those senile people who happen to be self-apologetic / sympathisers. They will die their natural death as usual. "Satyamev Jayte" --- TRUTH ALONE TRIUMPHS.

that theory is what i call a product of a diet high in urea.

[THX_1138]

Guys, i think it's time to finally come clean. I AM ELVIS PRESSLEY

can i date your daughter? hear she is single since cage dumped her.

[CC1981]

he was by no means a slave trader, he owned slaves and he dutifully freed them, infact he embraced his black wife and the children they had... he was one of the first few to suggest that all men be held equal including black americans.

Now i am forced to ask - which show of X-files was this on ? Can you even TRACE the name of Jefferson's 'black' child and what did he inherit ?? There is another word for such lucid expositions : publicity stunt.

your remarks are malicious, misinformed and rather derogatory

No, its right on the button- Jefferson himself was a slave owner and he did NOT advocate for abolition of slavery when America became independent. Those are the cold hard facts.

you owe all americans here and all over an apology, you dont see anyone saying things about gandhi, nehru, valabhai patel do u?

Err..that is because Gandhi, nehru or Patel didnt keep slaves. Not only did Jefferson own slaves, he was one of the few who owned slave-drivers as well - ie, 'semi-freed slaves' or bonded labourer who's armed with a whip and whips the slaves to work inhumanely hard. Jefferson talked the talk but never walked the walk. Jefferson's own words when it came to interracial relationships: The amalgamation of whites with blacks produces a degradation to which no lover of his country, no lover of excellence in the human character, can innocently consent. I am sorry that he is dear to you. I really am.

[CC1981]

listen dickweed' date=' heat a steel bar under tremendous stress, once it loses adequate tangential strength, it will collapse under the weight it is supporting.[/quote'] And pray tell, wtf does that have to do with steel that is designed to hold the weight of the plane and far more ??? ( err- you know, the SAME steel columns are holding the weight of the 5-6 storeys above them and are build with atleast 2x factor of safety- ie, able to support 2x the weight of 5-6 storeys, which is definitely much much higher than the weight of your plane) What you said above is true but is classic misinformation- a little bit of truth to fudge the issue (and a lesser man than me would assume malicious intent but i am more inclined to blame it on your ignorance). Yes, steel heated to near-melting point under tremendous stress will buckle and then melt. Its more accurately found through Young's modulus and phase diagrams, FYI. As far as 'adequate tangential strength' eh ?!? WTF is tangential strength ? Did you just pull that out of where the sun doesn't shine ? Did you perhaps mean tensile strength ? And if you did, you'd still be wrong- because you do not know just what is the Young's modulus for steel and what its phase diagram curve shows either. But the problem with this 'theory' is that neither the weight of the aircraft nor the temperature achieved by the jet fuel were sufficiently high to melt the core columns. An implicit proof of this stands in the case of a skyscraper fire in Spain a few years before 9/11 ( i forget the name of the building)- but it was an electrical fire (which FYI, can easily get hotter than your jet-fuel fire without containment) and the building burned for 11 hours straight- yet, it didn't fail structurally. And ironically, this building was built by the EXACT same bolt-n-struts pattern of the WTC. Problem is, you are being fed garbage and you either lack the skills or choose not to analyze the phenomena and its presented explanation.

[Zooter]

of all that you wrote there' date=' that is the only true phrase. and the reason? well simple the mismanagement of the 9/11 disaster, especially the post traumatic disorders suffered by the firefighters and other volunteers due to inhalation of arsenic laden gases near ground zero when the director of the EPA (a bush appointed partisan hack) said that the air near ground zero was not harmful for human beings (a statement she of course denies making today, inspite of having her on tape saying so). thus, this mismanagement and the later refusal of medical claims of the fire department led to this distrust and dislike of giuliani.[/quote'] Agree with you 100%. But your query essentially was: why aren't enough people screaming at the top of their lungs if this was in fact a false-flag event? And my point is: they are -- like you wouldn't believe -- they're all trying to blow the lid off this.

true' date=' the columbian drug trade was started by the CIA and in particular, it was not for the Iran Contra issue where they used drug money, the drug money was used to fuel wars in El Salvador where the populist government attempted to nationalize the plantations owned by San Dole fruit company (the very same company whose monopoly was challenged by Queen Lulinquina or whatever he name was and to save the business interests, united states annexed Hawaii) and to fuel the war against the left wing sandanistas in Nicaragua. it was also used to help the likes of douglas pinochet in chile. the trade is no long in the hand of the CIA. its run by the medeline cartels in collaboration with the tihuana cartels.[/quote'] Also correct on your part--but I wasn't linking everything together. My point actually was: there is something like a shadow government or a network of people within and outside of government that plans stuff like ... bringing in hard drugs to destroy Black America so that Wall Street can profit. The Established government -- your average Jo Shmo Senator knows nothing about it or even if he does is powerless or too scared to do anything about it. For example, you know, and I know and now we all know -- that the CIA brings in drugs to essentially create a drug war. You think the Senators don't know this if small time guys like you and me know--of course they do--but they can't/won't do anything about it. And so in the case of 9/11, ... YES the terrorists hijacked the plane ... ... and teh "secret Gov't" or whatever you want to label it orchestrated a "Stand Down" or whatever so that the U.S. could get their false flag event to exert their global power in this century.

the buildings collapsed because the fires started by the ignited furniture and jet fuel weakened the steel strusses' date=' remember steel loses its tangential strength rather quickly when heated.[/quote'] Yes, steel can lose it's strength. Steel when heated hot enough can be maleable. But never in the history of steel buildings (even when planes rammed into them) has the jet fuel created a fire so hot that the entire steel structure melts, gives way, ... and the building collapses into itself. The world's FIRST example of a steel building having it's steel deform and give way to drop the entire building: the first world trade center, ... the world's SECOND example: the 2nd WTC. And in the history of steel buildings, ... the 3rd example: the WTC which experienced nothing other than fires--never hot enough to melt steel. Also, all 3 WTC buildings fell at free fall speed--that physically cannot happen. A building cannot fall as fast as object dropped (from the same height) which experiences no resistance on it's way down. The only way floors of the WTC can fall at free fall speed is if something like those thermate lines are used (i.e. explosives) to cut the steel supports before the floor above them reaches their level. That's how demolition experts drop buildings at free-fall speed.

america was in vietnam since they felt that communism had to be contained' date=' victory was out of the question within the first year of combat when generals noticed how the terrain neutralized american weaponry. but did the americans leave? no they did not, till wall street felt the effects of the war. when the stock indices crashed[/quote'] Right--and that was actually my point. The question posed to me was: if war is so expensive, why would America start a war? It's the huge debt and stock crash (sub-prime just recently crashed) that brings in a war. And that's exactly what's happening--the entire Democratic platform is to start coming home. It's just the Republicans (save Ron Paul) that want to God-forbid ESCALATE teh war effort -- and maybe even nuke Iran preemptively! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anybody want to take a crack at any of my questions ???: 1) How does a plane "disappear" into a Pentagon wall by being sucked into a 16-foot diameter hole? Let's say a plane did hit the Pentagon, .. ... where the hell is it?? Not ONE tiny piece of the jet engine or the wings or the rear stabilizers--in ALL crashes, they get destroyed but you can still see them there burnt and broken. At the Pentagon crash site, ... nothing, ... absolutely nothing. Just watch that video again. 2) How does a fire (even from jet fuel) take down an entire steel structured building at free-fall speed?? When it pancakes down, ... it can't fall as fast as an object experiencing zero resistance on its way down. This was true for the North and South Towers and #7. One more thing you f*cking c*nt .. don't ever get cute with me.

[CC1981]

How does a plane "disappear" into a Pentagon wall by being sucked into a 16-foot diameter hole?

Hey man, i already did- didn't you know that the Pentagon has a gigantic hoover vaccum parallel universe portal installed inside of it ? Its like a stargate behind the building walls. :haha:

When it pancakes down, ... it can't fall as fast as an object experiencing zero resistance on its way down. This was true for the North and South Towers and #7.

Hey man, when there are people here who don't bat an eyelash when a building collapses on its footprints without any lateral collapse due to totally random events(ie, a plane just flies into a random part at a random point), do you think they possess enough analytic skills or scientific knowledge to see your much more advanced ( but still pretty valid) zero resistance free-fall ?

[living]

How the fack do you get thousands of FBI agents, fire fighters, cops , scientists , CIA yada ... yada .. yada to STFU and keep it a secret ...."

You don't need thousands of the above said personnel to plant explosives in a building. It could also be foreign nationals for all we know who even might have been executed after they did their job. (I know this is far fetched, but not as far fetched as you people not admitting that something was wrong) See, it is impossible to know EXACTLY what happened. But you ave to admit that all the three buildings fell in a unnatural way, as fast as an object being dropped and free falling. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE. Fuel burns at high temperatures, but not long enough to effect the steel columns. The other fires burning are insignificant. There are many scenarios as to how the whole thing was orchestrated. Once you admit that there was something wrong, we can have some fun on that front.

[living]

Oh yeah and don't underestimate the power of $$$$

[Donny]

And so, once again, a fascinating 'debate' degenerates into schoolboy namecalling (posts #55 & #60). How sad.

[King Tendulkar]

And so' date=' once again, a fascinating 'debate' degenerates into schoolboy namecalling (posts #55 & #60). How sad.[/quote'] Your are a fine one to talk. I have had posts were you have abused me. So get of your moral high horse and stop being a hypocrite!

[Donny]

Your are a fine one to talk. I have had posts were you have abused me. So get of your moral high horse and stop being a hypocrite!

The worst I've done, dsr, is to call your posts childish prattle. Does the truth hurt ? Anyway, I don't recall you being involved in any debate.