Must watch for 9/11 conspiracy theorist

[Guest dada_rocks]

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[King]

I have one question about 9/11 though. I know it was bad and all those that perished that day didn't really deserve it. That said hasn't there been an attack of a bigger scale in which thousands lost their lives? Now 9/11 is made to sound like a dark day (it is all right) over and above any dark day on earth. I've seen CNN, BBC and the rest of the world promote as it was a dooms day. I have full sympathy for the ones that died for no reason but the media portrayal is so important in such issues isn't it. Now I've seen movies made on 9/11 (I was watching WTC the other day, it was a touching movie), Natgeo, Discovery carry a featured 9/11 program every fortnight once. I think the media always comes with an agenda.

[Guest dada_rocks]

I have one question about 9/11 though. I know it was bad and all those that perished that day didn't really deserve it. That said hasn't there been an attack of a bigger scale in which thousands lost their lives? Now 9/11 is made to sound like a dark day (it is all right) over and above any dark day on earth. I've seen CNN' date=' BBC and the rest of the world promote as it was a dooms day. I have full sympathy for the ones that died for no reason but the media portrayal is so important in such issues isn't it. Now I've seen movies made on 9/11 (I was watching WTC the other day, it was a touching movie), Natgeo, Discovery carry a featured 9/11 program every fortnight once. I think the media always comes with an agenda.[/quote'] Now we are talking.. not only them world over people have adopted 9/11 as synonym of unfortunate happening.. U will see even on indian tv this or that thing being talked about India's 9/11.... No doubt there have been bigger man-made tragedy around the world

[Gaurav]

Nothing can beat the amount of coverage ME gets! Any little thing that happens there ends up as headline. Hardly any consistent coverage about Darfur (half a million dead ).

[CC1981]

America is a world leader in that regard too and its amazing how the entire contry closes rank and stands united.

The entire country stood united too when it was time to genocide the native Americans and enslave the Afro-Americans. Spare me that sort of jingoism. India is fine- much much more fine on a moral level than Amrikka.

[CC1981]

Oh and D_R- there isnt a facking thing scientific about Bill Maher's show and there aint an iota of science either you or Bill Maher are qualified to teach me. As i said, not one but TWO towers came down in a fashion that is picture-perfect match with a controlled demolision. The chances of that happening from random impact is almost nil and therefore, i must yet again toss your this rant into the category of 'D_R doesnt know wtf he is talking about', since you ran away from my 9/11 comments. So much for being a 'professor' of crap.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Oh and D_R- there isnt a facking thing scientific about Bill Maher's show and there aint an iota of science either you or Bill Maher are qualified to teach me. As i said, not one but TWO towers came down in a fashion that is picture-perfect match with a controlled demolision. The chances of that happening from random impact is almost nil and therefore, i must yet again toss your this rant into the category of 'D_R doesnt know wtf he is talking about', since you ran away from my 9/11 comments. So much for being a 'professor' of crap.

It was meant for those who have some grey-cells not for idiots and am not surprised u got nothing out of it..

[Guest dada_rocks]

The entire country stood united too when it was time to genocide the native Americans and enslave the Afro-Americans. Spare me that sort of jingoism. India is fine- much much more fine on a moral level than Amrikka.

Spare me that jingoism but give me supine character in face of mass migration from across the border... As we speak within space of three decades bengali demography has seen sea change thanks to the bangaldeshi incursion in mass. And bengali legislators leaders like A B bardhan had to say this : " If an Indian can go on H1B to USA bangaldeshis have right to illegally enter India. He further added u guys complain becuase those muslims vote for commnist" And travesty is that idiots keep electing clowns like this over and over again.

[CC1981]

Spare me that jingoism but give me supine character in face of mass migration from across the border... As we speak within space of three decades bengali demography has seen sea change thanks to the bangaldeshi incursion in mass.

No problems from me for that.

It was meant for those who have some grey-cells not for idiots

Yeah yeah. we all know how much grey cells you have. Asked you a few simple engineering questions and you ran away with your tail between the legs. Seen wannabes like you before too.

[Donny]

The entire country stood united too when it was time to genocide the native Americans and enslave the Afro-Americans.

And where do you get that sort of info, Sandro ? The entire country ?? Did the government of the day hold a referendum to approve slavery where the people voted 100% in favour ? No. Did they ask the people and find all were in favour of the proposed treatment of native Anericans ? No. That you see fit to generalise and exaggerate so often is sad because it cheapens some of the good points you often make. :regular_smile:

[THX_1138]

The entire country stood united too when it was time to genocide the native Americans and enslave the Afro-Americans. Spare me that sort of jingoism. India is fine- much much more fine on a moral level than Amrikka.

what orifice is this coming from? the entire country united against the genocide of Native Americans? well no, it was mostly plantation owners in Georgia and the inept jack ass called Andrew Jackson who pushed them onto the reservations. infact, the supreme court in cherokee vs the state of georgia in 1820 decided in the favor of the ownership of the native americans. ready your fcuking history google ninja and yeah, about the slavery issue, do you know of the underground railway, or the civil war, or this git with a bad beard: abraham lincoln? you know that stupid idiot with his idealism and his whole bit about united the country and that crap...

[THX_1138]

for the thread's topic... please i have had enough of this idiots who defy logic, facts and science when they claim that 9/11 was a conspiracy... so please refrain from such nonscense guys.

[living]

As a Civil Engineering student, loads of my professors have emphasized the fact that, it is almost next to impossible for a building to collapse like that after one explosion, which is no where near the base. There was no catalyst for the building to topple the way it did. And Bill is no better than Charlie Sheen on this matter, both want publicity and they are stating their opinions.

[CC1981]

'

As a Civil Engineering student, loads of my professors have emphasized the fact that, it is almost next to impossible for a building to collapse like that after one explosion, which is no where near the base.

Dude, why bother with retards ? As a fellow engineer, the divergence between the FACTS and government claim is obvious...but some of us here arnt that well read in science and logic to extrapolate the errors in the govt. story. The simple fact is, the WTC buildings were brought down by controlled demolition. Having one building collapse on its own footprints due to natural reasons (ie, no advanced demolition planning) is rarer than once-in-a-blue-moon. THREE buildings comming down in the space of 12 hours that collapse on its footprints ? Sorry but thats too much coincidence and 'blind luck' for me to buy.

[CC1981]

And where do you get that sort of info, Sandro ? The entire country ?? Did the government of the day hold a referendum to approve slavery where the people voted 100% in favour ? No. Did they ask the people and find all were in favour of the proposed treatment of native Anericans ? No. That you see fit to generalise and exaggerate so often is sad because it cheapens some of the good points you often make. :regular_smile:

It wasn't just the plantation owners who had slaves- almost every middle class/upper middle class Americans had slaves- not by the dozens like the plantation owners but atleast one or two. Therefore, it is a national responsibility to be borne by the collective, not to hide behind the referendum argument.

[Ram]

' Dude, why bother with retards ? As a fellow engineer, the divergence between the FACTS and government claim is obvious...but some of us here arnt that well read in science and logic to extrapolate the errors in the govt. story. The simple fact is, the WTC buildings were brought down by controlled demolition. Having one building collapse on its own footprints due to natural reasons (ie, no advanced demolition planning) is rarer than once-in-a-blue-moon. THREE buildings comming down in the space of 12 hours that collapse on its footprints ? Sorry but thats too much coincidence and 'blind luck' for me to buy.

No democratically elected govt will be foolish enough to orchestrate an attack as big as the 9/11. And these claims sound more hollow , when Bin Laden himself has claimed responsibility for these attacks.

[CC1981]

No democratically elected govt will be foolish enough to orchestrate an attack as big as the 9/11. And these claims sound more hollow , when Bin Laden himself has claimed responsibility for these attacks.

There are various different levels of collusion and 'help' involved. As far as what Bin Laden has claimed- that is rather irrelevant. US agent Bin Laden will obviously say it to give America the reason. And America repaid the favour by letting him escape in Tora Bora and then shifted the war to iraq. Sorry but the material evidence ( ie, collase of the tower and the pentagon incident) and the events of Afghanistan invasion clearly points towards a collusion. As far as 'foolish enough to orchestrate the attack' argument, it is a rather simple reason : America NEEDS its wars for its economy to survive, right now, the biggest economic sector in America is the defence sector. And without 'constructing' wars like Iraq and heightening tension so that nations like Saudi would buy American weaponry, the largest economic sector of America would go bust and millions would lose their jobs. You see, after the fall of the soviet union, the Pentagon has had a far harder time justifying its defence budget and keep up their spendings. So a little bit of 'self inflicted injury' is the manna for the upsurge in the defence industry. Unfortunately, that is the bottomline. And completely in line with a nation that used to do cruel and inhumane experiments on its own human citizens until 25-30 years ago. As far as claims sounding hollow, sorry but Engineers really do know 'better' about simulating these events and what their outcomes will be and what their outcomes won't be. It is what we do for a living- design or simulate events and find their solutions. Living's comments arnt just an isolated comment- i am yet to find more than 1 or 2 engineering professors who buy the US government's story about what happened and what brought the towers down. Most engineering or physics professors i know laugh at the idea that the planes brought down the WTC and it was a plane that hit the pentagon. But they will all pretend to side with the story officially because otherwise they will lose their jobs- CIA, NSA, CSIS etc. have quite a formidable team of scientists and they arn't averse to destroying someone's career if they 'analyze the truth'. None of us cares that much about the 9/11 issue to put our careers on the line- it is not even a Canadian incident to begin with! A 110 story building- correction, TWO 110 storey buildings dont collapse on its footprints after a critical failure event near the top without some 'help'. That is, if it can even BE a critical failure event at the top.

[Ram]

Lets assume the govt was indeed involved in this. Then why take the ridiculously stupid route of hijacking 4 planes and ramming 2 of them into the towers.Such a plan would have required official connivance at so many levels , which would be almost be impossible to secure. Might as well set off bombs in the first place and accuse the terrorists of doing it. And Bin Laden isnt American agent anymore. If he were , why would he bomb the USS Cole , or the Embassies in Africa ? America DOES NOT a terrorist attack to go to war. There are enough reasons out there to garner support for a war. A large scale terrorist attack IS NOT needed.

[CC1981]

Such a plan would have required official connivance at so many levels , which would be almost be impossible to secure..

Exactly. Hence,more like 'intelligence picks up info on these terrorists--------> some guy sees the opportunity in this attack-----> covertly 'maximizes' effects of the terrorist's plans'. Hell, they even tossed in a missile attack to the Pentagon but wanted us to believe that a bunch of terrorists who had barely passed flight school could fly a passenger jet like a Sukhoi and still be dumb enough to target the only unoccupied section of the world's largest building (yes, the side that the Pentagon got hit had been empty for weeks, with some big interior renovation and construction taking place). First rule of self inflicted injury is to make it look bad but making sure it isn't a critical blow. Sort of like how if you cut yourself to claim assault and remove you from the suspect's list, you dont excactly slice your jugular ! A small chunk of Pentagon blowing up gets top marks in 'special effects' (it certainly looks very bad) and in avoiding a critical blow ( by targetting the one wing of pentagon that has nothing in it). That is not just the most efficient route, it is also the most logistically safe route- that way you involve far less # of people. Its like letting Pearl harbour- the US knew the Japs were comming, the US government was very KEEN to get into the war ( they saw it- correctly- as their one opportunity to dominate the world in the future) but its public was not- they were still quite upset over WWI casualties. So what does it do ? When it heard the Japs were comming ( FYI, the japanese shortwave radio code was already cracked by the US by 1937- so in other words, they knew exactly what the Japs were doing before the war started and US monitors were present in Phillipines), they simply sailed out their Carriers from Hawaii ( 3 days before PH, Hawaii had 4 aircraft carriers anchored, 36 hours before the attack, the carriers left for an 'exercise' near LA) and let the Japs cripple its surface fleet for the 'excuse' to get it in war. It knew that Japan would not be a big threat- bombing Pearl harbour (almost midway between Japan and hawaii) is one thing, showing up in California is an insanely harder thing to do ( and the Japs had no reason to invade the US- they'd much rather swallow up China and half of Asia than look at the US). So it didnt fear invasion- just let its pacific navy get ploughed for the excuse for war. America also knew that its industrial output was 4x that of Japan's so it'd catch up to Japan and outstrip Japan's production easily, thus winning the war. And this is not my 'wild fantasies comming true', a US Senetorial committee in the 80s found the US government was aware of Pearl harbour plan atleast 48 hours before Pearl Harbour happened. So there is precedence to US doing a little bit of self-inflicted damage to try and get the big cheese too.

America DOES NOT a terrorist attack to go to war.

Or so it claims and wants YOU to believe.

And Bin Laden isnt American agent anymore. If he were , why would he bomb the USS Cole , or the Embassies in Africa ?

Not an agent- a tool, object of manipulation. Doesn't make Binny a saint either- make no mistake, he is a total nutter- but that doesn't mean America is not gonna try and exploit his image either. It is, afterall, as much a war of propaganda as anything else.

There are enough reasons out there to garner support for a war.

Such as ? There arn't many reasons left for America to justify a war to its OWN PEOPLE. Can't exactly fight for conquest anymore, atleast not openly. Can't fight for resources, especially when you are richest and biggest economy. So what else is left to 'make an issue out of' to keep the defence industry alive ?? America's policy is quite easy to understand- just study Rome and you'll get it. America is the new Rome, ie, a classic example of a hard power. Sorry but i prefer the 'soft power' methodology of certain Chinese empires, India, Carthage, Japan, etc. Dude, you keep forgetting- US is run by ultra-capitalists- for them, there is only one equation that matters and that is the equation of power. US is certainly no stranger to a tragedy or two to serve as an excuse and there is much of USA's 300 year history most Indians know of. The power circles of the US, like in any other nation, is a stratification beyond the common circles. So don't use one to judge the other. This is why despite my rather strong anti-US stance, i don't advocate mysery on the US people or advocate attack on their populace. US will become mexican anyways, so i am not that worried.

[sandtest]

CC 1981 So you are among those who believe that 9/11 was Amreekan Conspiracy. Here in India too we have ridiculously smart people like ArunDhatti Roy who claim that Indian Parliament attack was Indian governments conspiracy and not terrorist attack. The best thing to deal with such deshdrohi-gaddar people is that government should plan some really genuine conspiracy and eliminate all these conspiracy theorists so that they can go to heaven and enjoy 72 houries....enough of dhimmitude.