Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 These two leaders are immaterial but they are raising the voices of majority of Middle class people like you and me and they are supported by masses which makes duly elected Govt to situp and listen to them' date=' thats what makes the difference.[/quote'] Which is fine and that is where it should stop. If they want to take the next step to draft laws please get elected so that you become accountable to me. You see what I mean now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 and you are saying this is not happening already?? Thats what lot of RTI activists have been doing and who inspired them Anna (so called baburao) Ok, we are just circling around the same point now. I am not saying that the baburao has no business raising concerns. However I am saying that if the said baburao wants to draft laws go and get yourself elected and become accountable to me. No, it is not happening enough. Even in temples I see middle class people trying to bribe their way to the front of the queue. This kind of corruption has become endemic to Indians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Not a single person, is it? No brother leader there. :D Dude, it was started by JP. He was the charismatic leader. Again you can't just gather 300 million ppl by spreading love using word of mouth. You definately need a leader without that its not possible. Do you know why 1857 revolution failed?? It did not have central leadership. People were doing their bit in different part of India. same thing applies here. Also you keep saying educated ppl should contest election as if they don;t already. Politicians like Manmohan Singh, Sibal, Chidabaram all are educated...what the f...k did they do?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Which is why I said earlier that more educated people should start standing for elections. Initially they moight be defeated but over a period of time they will start winning which will change the setup of the parliament. If you keep quiet then the rahul babas and babies of this world will get elected to replace their parents and then their children and so on until it will becomes an elected monarchy. Hahaha...You know nothing about the election process, do you? ? Have you heard of Jayaprakash Narayan of AP, an IAS officer. who floated a party to fight against corruption. He has been contesting elections from years but don't get even one seat, in spite of many educated voters voting for them. Why? Our electoral system is deeply divided on caste, communal lines and poor voters can easily be bribed. If you dont spend minimum of 10 crores, you can't imagine winning a legislative election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ok, we are just circling around the same point now. I am not saying that the baburao has no business raising concerns. However I am saying that if the said baburao wants to draft laws go and get yourself elected and become accountable to me. No, it is not happening enough. Even in temples I see middle class people trying to bribe their way to the front of the queue. This kind of corruption has become endemic to Indians. I asked you the question, which baburao is drafting the law?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Hahaha...You know nothing about the election process' date=' do you? ? Have you heard of Jayaprakash Narayan of AP, an IAS officer. who floated a party to fight against corruption. He has been contesting elections from years but don't get even one seat, in spite of many educated voters voting for them. Why? Our electoral system is deeply divided on caste, communal lines and poor voters can easily be bribed. If you dont spend minimum of 10 crores, you can't imagine winning a legislative election.[/quote'] Ok, and this problem will be solved by one charismatic leader, right? Fine go with that plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Dude, it was started by JP. He was the charismatic leader. Again you can't just gather 300 million ppl by spreading love using word of mouth. You definately need a leader without that its not possible. Do you know why 1857 revolution failed?? It did not have central leadership. People were doing their bit in different part of India. same thing applies here. Also you keep saying educated ppl should contest election as if they don;t already. Politicians like Manmohan Singh, Sibal, Chidabaram all are educated...what the f...k did they do?? ok, now a military example. :facepalm: I think my point is getting lost here in all this zeal for a brother leader. You guys go ahead with this master plan and throw the constitution of India out of the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I asked you the question' date=' which baburao is drafting the law??[/quote'] Isn't that fellow anna hazare part of this do good group who are trying to draft this lokpal bill with draconian and idiotic measures which cannot be implemented? Oh btw, graft is a punishable offence under CrPC if I remember correctly, so I have no idea why we need a new anti graft act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 ^No the problem is you have not read what Lokpal Bill stands for. Anna Hazare is on the committe but there are 5 other guys from government as well and who we elected din't we. Once they draft the law, it will go to Loksabha/Rajyasabha etc..this ppl are who we elected isnt?? There will be debates etc.. so again I don't see any issue of Hazare being part of drafting the Lokpal bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 In India, the Jan Lokpal Bill (Hindi: जन लोकपाल विधेयक) (also referred to as the citizens' ombudsman bill) is a draft anti-corruption law that would create an ombudsman called the Jan Lokpal; this would be an independent body similar to the Election Commission with the power to prosecute politicians and bureaucrats without prior government permission.[1] Drafted by Shanti Bhushan, retired Indian Police Service officer Kiran Bedi, Justice N. Santosh Hegde, advocate Prashant Bhushan, former chief election commissioner J. M. Lyngdoh in consultation with the leaders of the India Against Corruption movement and civil society, the bill proposes the institution of the office of Lokpal (Ombudsman) at the center and local Lokayukta at the state level. The bill is designed to create an effective anti-corruption and grievance redressal system that effectively deters corruption while providing effective protection to whistleblowers.[2][3] For 42 years, the government-drafted bill has failed to pass through the Rajya Sabha, the upper house of the Parliament of India.[4] The first Lokpal Bill was passed in the 4th Lok Sabha[clarification needed What is this?] in 1969 but stalled in the Rajya Sabha. Subsequent Lokpal bills were introduced in 1971, 1977, 1985, 1989, 1996, 1998, 2001, 2005 and 2008 but all failed to pass.[5] Following the four day Anna Hazare fasting struggle,[clarification needed] Prime Minister Manmohan Singh stated that the Lokpal Bill would be introduced in the 2011 monsoon session of parliament.[6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 ^No the problem is you have not read what Lokpal Bill stands for. Anna Hazare is on the committe but there are 5 other guys from government as well and who we elected din't we. Once they draft the law, it will go to Loksabha/Rajyasabha etc..this ppl are who we elected isnt?? There will be debates etc.. so again I don't see any issue of Hazare being part of drafting the Lokpal bill. Trouble being, the measures he asks for will have to be introduced in the bill because he has leverage over the government as the face of this struggle. I am worried about this. I would be more comfortable if he would get himself elected actually then we know he is accountable. Once this bill is passed there is no turning back even if it has draconian measures which cannot be implemented. Then there is also the question of how much of public privacy etc affected because of this quest for putting graft takers to the sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 ^ LOL...Don't worry too much as you spend rest of your life in Europa. Let us ,resident Indians, worry about our laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 >Trouble being, the measures he asks for will have to be introduced in the bill because he has leverage over the government as the face of this struggle. I am worried about this. I would be more comfortable if he would get himself elected actually then we know he is accountable. Draft is already there and original draft was prepared by Shanti Bhushan. Apart from that there are 5 individuals from government. He is on the committee to just force Government to work it seriously. There wil be several rounds of talk. See I don't have problem with Anna being on the committee, My problem is why din't governemnt ask opposition to be on committee as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Lokpal bill itself is not an answer but it is a start. Also we have eminent lawyers in Prashant Bhushan and Shanti Bhushan, Present lokpal of Karnataka and Former judge of supreme court Mr Hegde etc in the committee, I'm sure they know better than me or you about the legal system and which is draconian, which is not etc. Main problem I see is Govt will somehow derail the process and not allow Civil society to draft the law. Initially they released videos about Bhushans and went offensive against Mr. Hegde inspite of his excellent work in Karnataka. Now they are using Ram dev to derail the process. I'm 100% sure this law will never be drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 ^ LOL...Don't worry too much as you spend rest of your life in Europa. Let us ' date='resident Indians, worry about our laws.[/quote'] That is just unfair. I was born there and lived 22 years of my life there and there is no reason that I wont be back to live out my life in my own home country. This is not the way to debate someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Draft is already there and original draft was prepared by Shanti Bhushan. Apart from that there are 5 individuals from government. He is on the committee to just force Government to work it seriously. There wil be several rounds of talk. See I don't have problem with Anna being on the committee, My problem is why din't governemnt ask opposition to be on committee as well. Correct, I agree with this. The main opposition parties should have a representative (i.e.) both NDA and the communists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 :omg: People are advocating for a dictatorship :omg: You just have to look over to the padosi nation to see how that works out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 We shoulnt discredit Baba ramdev's movement just because he belongs to the religious right. Any individual in a democracy is free to participate in a peaceful protest. That is the very foundation of democracy. However I find two disagreeable aspects of Baba Ramdev's movement 1) His demand for an ordinance is not right. An individual cannot demand for a constitutional change just on the basis of the media attention or displaying mass power. The whole idea of democracy is to keep decision making power with a larger group rather than few individuals 2) His emphasis on bringing back black money. Black money isnt labelled black that we can just demand that the swiss hand them over. There are lot of steps to this and some which contravene privacy laws of certain nations. India needs to use diplomatic clout which takes time and patience to convince banks to reveal the account holders. This emphasis on black money diverts attention from the root cause - corruption. Hazare's movement was right - it targeted corrruption and sought to bring government officers under a civilian watchdog. Ramdev is looking for some quick fix solution which has no clear direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Saw this thread late. As for the question : Should gurus and babas lead political campaigns ? My answer would be simple yes. If chors , gundas and Traitors can become ministers, Sure the gurus and babas can lead a political campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I am for people doing their bit to raise awareness, but not for these "fast until death unless you meet my demands and pass laws which include clause as dictated by me". Whether we like it or not, we are a democracy, which means you elect people and then let them govern. Yes, peaceful protests are part of the game when your elected government does something wrong, but if in every corner of the country if we have these fasts and govt is asked to meet their demands, there will be no end to it. That said, I think we need to commend people who are trying to raise awareness of these issues instead of being in a motive questioning business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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