Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I think u didn't grasp the issue yet the system which is in place currently itself is wrong.. What you will do when system itself wrong ? I fully grasp the issue. The trouble is I am talking from a mature democratic perspective and if anything this thread has fully convinced me that democracy in India is in its infancy. If the system is wrong you have to start replacing it step by step from the grass roots level over a period of time. This doesn't happen through any revolution. Name a successful revolution for me please if you can. What you are asking for is the kind of democratic systems in place in western countries which have evolved over 2-3 centuries to happen overnight in India. It won't happen oervnight or through some baba or anna fasting to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The day our Muslim people stop voting congress blindly we will see real secularism in this country... Until then congress will find communal angle in everything..I don't know how much more these guys going to stoop low.... Unfortunately people dont have a good alternative between Congress and BJP , both are corrupt and communal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I fully grasp the issue. The trouble is I am talking from a mature democratic perspective and if anything this thread has fully convinced me that democracy in India is in its infancy. If the system is wrong you have to start replacing it step by step from the grass roots level over a period of time. This doesn't happen through any revolution. Name a successful revolution for me please if you can. What you are asking for is the kind of democratic systems in place in western countries which have evolved over 2-3 centuries to happen overnight in India. It won't happen oervnight or through some baba or anna fasting to death. Changing system step by step / grass roots ? Who will do this When this will start How this will start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Changing system step by step / grass roots ? Who will do this When this will start How this will start Not who/when etc. It is you and me, starting from our homes and the immediate society around us. Start following rules, say no to bribes whatever the issue, start taking pride in yourself and your legal system. It will spread rapidly. Be fearless in saying no to graft or cutting corners. This is how these systems got built up in the so called "advanced" countries. The pity is we originated these ideas thousands of years before anyone else and have simply forgotten our own ethos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Changing system step by step / grass roots ? Who will do this When this will start How this will start Gunner is there to do it :) How ?? Stop paying bribes ? We overselves should stop it .Common ,how more years will it take all of us to understand .Are we waiting for some-kind of mutation in our brains to takes place , and make us understand this simple thing . People like you,me ,gunner need to join politics .Just saying Politics is full of mud doesn't make sense .Stop being a keyboard warrior . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 yes . Then you are simply being silly. Our existng laws cover for protection of minorities and for punishing those who indulge in communcal violence. More law is not the answer but rather the enforcement of existing ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I fully grasp the issue. The trouble is I am talking from a mature democratic perspective and if anything this thread has fully convinced me that democracy in India is in its infancy. If the system is wrong you have to start replacing it step by step from the grass roots level over a period of time. This doesn't happen through any revolution. Name a successful revolution for me please if you can. What you are asking for is the kind of democratic systems in place in western countries which have evolved over 2-3 centuries to happen overnight in India. It won't happen oervnight or through some baba or anna fasting to death. Can you please tell me what are the ways to change the democracy step by step? Problem with India is our democracy is going worse not better, we have a decent non-corrupt setup in 50's and 60s but today we are successful in corrupting every level of democratical setup. This is the reason why people are taking to streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViruRulez Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 As usual Congress spokesperson giving a communal twist to Ram dev's protest' date=' his reason is they were shouting Vande Mataram and Bharat Mata ki Jai :wall:[/quote'] The Congress spokesperson is the biggest @$$ and their party is a shame on the nation like are all the present lot of political parties. And his reasoning is BS. But Baba Ramdev gave communal angle and even Anna Hazare and Swami Agnivesh were disappointed by it. Anna at least never allowed his stage to be shared by politicians or controversial figures. I never disliked Ramdev as a yoga guru but he was turning a so called people's movement into a political and then a communal one. Swami Agnivesh even went to the extent of saying today morning that Ramdev called for police action by his actions of yesterday. That said Congress is not any less votebank based either and both of them needs to be eliminated from Indian democracy by a new youth oriented unbiased progressive party for the nation to move in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Then you are simply being silly. Our existng laws cover for protection of minorities and for punishing those who indulge in communcal violence. More law is not the answer but rather the enforcement of existing ones. I guess he is sarcastic with that post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Can you please tell me what are the ways to change the democracy step by step? Problem with India is our democracy is going worse not better' date=' we have a decent non-corrupt setup in 50's and 60s but today we are successful in corrupting every level of democratical setup. This is the reason why people are taking to streets.[/quote'] The answer to a lot of things lie in the human development index. We have to stop measuring our growth in terms of GDP % and start thinking about human development. You have to reach a literacy rate of 100% and basic standard of life for most citizens, without this the clean utopian government which you are asking for will only be a pipe dream. Look the greatest success story of any civil rights moment is that of the afro-american civil rights movement in the US, 40 years later with racist segregation etc gone has the economic situation of balck people in America significantly improved to the point that there are no poor balck people or all of them have equal opportunities? The answer is a resounding NO. It is better than 40 years ago but their dreams continue to remain unfulfilled. Why? Because they too kept looking for a messiah to lead them out of trouble instead of refining themselves starting from the grassroots. Education leads to better standard of life and awareness. Awareness leads to thoughts and analysis which in turn leads to new systems and an overall improvement for everyone. This is how a democracy grows. India will also have to go throw that painful growing up phase. We are certainly better than where we were 25 years ago and we will certainly be better off in the next 25 years. Have faith and start doing the right things around you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I guess he is sarcastic with that post... yes ,you got it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 yes ' date='you got it .[/quote'] Sorry mate, didn't realize you were being sarcastic. :icflove: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Not who/when etc. It is you and me, starting from our homes and the immediate society around us. Start following rules, say no to bribes whatever the issue, start taking pride in yourself and your legal system. It will spread rapidly. Be fearless in saying no to graft or cutting corners. This is how these systems got built up in the so called "advanced" countries. The pity is we originated these ideas thousands of years before anyone else and have simply forgotten our own ethos. If not for Anna and Baba we are NOT even discussing these issues..the only issues we re discussing is whether Sachin is great or Bradman... We have to give at least some respect to these guys for starting something which we are doing only in net by writing our opinions. May be now some people will think differently when Bribr situation came before them..if nothing happened nobody will care..u need publicity for everything.... Do u really think who ousted Mubarak and now Gaddaphi are all saints? They are also politicians..in cases like Muslim brotherhood it's even religious...only after they started Youth joined them.. As I mentioned earlier Middle class especially Youth are still in working hard and earn some money , during that process don't have time , patience for all these.. But now with constant media recognition youth may awake and genuine impact may happen.. You need some starting point somewhere....just because you and me stopped giving bribe corruption not stop...not all people in this country are lucky like us to survive without giving bribe forrn better future for themselves or their kids.. You need some breaking point..this may be the Begining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViruRulez Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Unfortunately people dont have a good alternative between Congress and BJP ' date=' both are corrupt and communal.[/quote'] That is the exact problem in the nation. This appeasing corrupt and votebank politics of the parties is destroying the nation. And not only the Congress and the BJP but every dam political party in India is corrupt to the core. To be fair enough, we have always been taught that Chinese communists are crap and BS and what not. But sometimes I feel their govt. is a million times better than us. At least their govt. cares about the nation, its people and its development. They somewhat preach atheism and force one child policy which are in a way helping their future. Maybe a two child policy would have been more sensible though. We do not need a communist govt. or party too but we need a balance where we have a new progressive youth oriented unbiased political party devoid of votebank and dirty politics and who only thinks about the nation's development and can implement strict rules for crime, population growth etc. if needed while still not harming anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 LOL' date=' and you presume that this issue will be solved by some civil moment led by a few middle class maharathis and a baburao? :giggle::giggle:[/quote'] so who else?? whats your solution mate?? Anna Hazare has been well known social activitist, Kiran Bedi we all know her stand against corruption, if not these guys who else?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 If not for Anna and Baba we are NOT even discussing these issues..the only issues we re discussing is whether Sachin is great or Bradman... We have to give at least some respect to these guys for starting something which we are doing only in net by writing our opinions. May be now some people will think differently when Bribr situation came before them..if nothing happened nobody will care..u need publicity for everything.... I entirey agree with your sentiment that all this has raised awareness. I am happy about that just don't let them draft laws for heaven's sakes. Do u really think who ousted Mubarak and now Gaddaphi are all saints? They are also politicians..in cases like Muslim brotherhood it's even religious...only after they started Youth joined them.. No, I think they are chewtiyas. Essentially they have destroyed those countries for years to come. As I mentioned earlier Middle class especially Youth are still in working hard and earn some money , during that process don't have time , patience for all these.. But now with constant media recognition youth may awake and genuine impact may happen.. You need some starting point somewhere....just because you and me stopped giving bribe corruption not stop...not all people in this country are lucky like us to survive without giving bribe forrn better future for themselves or their kids..You need some breaking point..this may be the Begining This is the important point. The Indian middle class still hasn't realized what a force it is, 300 million people saying no to bribe makes a heck of a difference to a country. By saying no, you are giving all the others below you an opportunity to stand up from oppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 so who else?? whats your solution mate?? Anna Hazare has been well known social activitist' date=' Kiran Bedi we all know her stand against corruption, if not these guys who else??[/quote'] O bhaisaab, you and me. Why do you want a messiah to do the right thing? There are 300 million middle class people in India who are in a position to follow the rules and say no to graft. Please do so and see the impact. Do you see what I mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabira Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 >If the system is wrong you have to start replacing it step by step from the grass roots level over a period of time. This doesn't happen through any revolution. Name a successful revolution for me please if you can. again your solution is great, and the person who has been doing is Anna Hazare and you already condemn him. People like him have been using RTI at grass root level to stop corruption. But I guess he should not do that as he is not representative of you and me :nervous: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 again your solution is great, and the person who has been doing is Anna Hazare and you already condemn him. People like him have been using RTI at grass root level to stop corruption. But I guess he should not do that as he is not representative of you and me :nervous: You are absolutely distorting what I said. I have no objection whatsoever in Anna or anyone else making use of the laws in place to bring accountability in public life. If anything that is absolutely fantastic and I am all for it. However that said I will not allow him to be my official spokesman or to draft laws for which I have elected a government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 O bhaisaab' date=' you and me. Why do you want a messiah to do the right thing? There are 300 million middle class people in India who are in a position to follow the rules and say no to graft. Please do so and see the impact. Do you see what I mean?[/quote'] You need a spark, a catalyst, an inspirational leader etc for any movement to start. Do you think 300 million middle class people wake up one day and suddenly decide to stop giving bribe?:giggle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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