Muhammad is the 2nd most popular boy name in the UK !

[CC1981]

t's blatantly obvious how your logic is effected by your religious convictions.

I am not religious because i do not follow any religion or have any idea about the 'higher being' question.

You have provided zero proof for any of your religious claims.

True. And you've provided zero proof for any of your atheistic claims.

Atheists are just saying provide proof for your claims so I don't see how you can say that atheists are like religious folks.

It is very simple. Based on proof, logic and evidence at hand, the question of 'God' cannot be answered as of today. We cannot prove the existance of God but we cannot disprove the existance of God either. Atheists do not have scope for the argument that 'God exists, he/she/it created this universe but this God is nothing like any God mankind made up in its religions- one day when we are advanced enough to travel galaxies, then we'll see the proof'. Atheists make the common error in thinking that lack of proof equals non-existance. Ie, if no proof, then said claim ( ie, God) is false and therefore i don't believe in him/her/it. That is a fundamentally flawed position logically because lack of proof does not mean non-existance of the claim in all scenarios. The correct answer to the situation is agnosticism, since agnosticism means God may/maynot exist. The religious ones believe in exitance of God and Atheists believe that God doesnt exist. Both are equally retarded positions to hold based on any scientific, logical and factual basis on the subject. As i said, the answer to this question is indeterminate, not 'yes' like religious folks believe or 'no' like atheists believe. The correct answer is ' i don't know'. Which is beyond the realms of both atheism and religion.

[gorah_pindu]

CC - While I call myself an agnostic for the sceptical purposes that you mentioned, in reality the atheist position is more likely than the theist one :)

[CC1981]

CC - While I call myself an agnostic for the sceptical purposes that you mentioned' date=' in reality the atheist position is more likely than the theist one :)[/quote'] I don't consider that to be empirically true either, since this is the 'reality' we are talking that is restricted to our understanding and perception of reality. My position is that i have no clue if God exists or not and neither do i give one hoot. I am sure if there was a God and he/she/it/they wanted me to know for sure they existed, they'd have left a note somewhere in Godly fashion. Otherwise,he/she/it/they either don't exist or obviously they have more pressing issues to worry about than notifying their existance to one lil blob of flesh(me) on a speck of rock going aroung one ordinary star in a universe with 3948239043249023485092849 stars. I will find out one day or i won't. No big deal to me. Many other things i wont find out in this universe as well, so why get into knots about God ? So far my life doesnt have any reason to focus on this issue. If he/she/it is really gonna judge me on some set of rules before fulfilling the basic obligation of letting me know FOR SURE that these are the 'rules of the universe', well, then it sux to be me. Too bad.

[Gaurav]

True. And you've provided zero proof for any of your atheistic claims.

See these books contains CLAIMS that have ZERO evidence to back them. In fact daily life clearly shows that the claims contained in these books are just wishful thinking. So I am not the one claiming hocus pocus stuff! People who take these books as fact are the one making outlandish claims. So if you agree that there is no proof then on what basis are people following these books and f@king up this world?

...or obviously they have more pressing issues to worry about than notifying their existance to one lil blob of flesh(me) on a speck of rock going aroung one ordinary star in a universe with 3948239043249023485092849 stars.

Yeah must be really busy your god :hysterical: Created 3948239043249023485092849 stars but can't keep track of things. What a knob jockey your god!

Based on proof, logic and evidence at hand, the question of 'God' cannot be answered as of today.

So why follow it until you know? :haha:

We cannot prove the existance of God but we cannot disprove the existance of God either.

Yeah just like we cannot disprove that there is a special invisible plastic dildo permanently orbiting your head :haha: It's there honestly! You just can't see it! Have faith my dear friend :hysterical: CC you might not be a religious nut but Buddhism/Buddha has softened you :tounge_smile: Answer one question. This goes out to Ravi, CC or anyone else. What exactly will happen to me if I don't believe in God? + if I reject him and call him a jack@ss? It's a serious question. So try to answer it. What exactly am I loosing by not following any religion or not believing in a personal god?

[CC1981]

See these books contains CLAIMS that have ZERO evidence to back them. In fact daily life clearly shows that the claims contained in these books are just wishful thinking.

True. But so what ? Your idea that God doesnt exist is just as wishful thinking !

So if you agree that there is no proof then on what basis are people following these books and f@king up this world?

The same basis as to which atheists think there is no God - atheists don't need proof of God's non-existance either to believe.

Yeah must be really busy your god :hysterical: Created 3948239043249023485092849 stars but can't keep track of things. What a knob jockey your god!

One can easily say that this 'God' could have far far heavier issues to worry about than us and we are bout as significant to this God as one hair follicle in a a$$ hair we have. Hence he can't be 'arsed' to bother with us.

So why follow it until you know?

Umm..who is saying to follow religion ? Can your mind think in anything but 'on-off/us vs them/ if not true, then opposite must be true' kind of thinking mode ? What i am saying is that atheism and religion are EQUALLY UNJUSTIFIED. Hence my position is agnosticism. If the answer is 'maybe', then it makes just about as much sense to say 'the answer is Yes God exists' and run with it like a religious git as saying 'the answer is No, God doesn't exist' and running with it like an atheist git.

Have faith my dear friend :hysterical: CC you might not be a religious nut but Buddhism/Buddha has softened you

This has nothing to do with buddhism or religion. This question of agnosticism was raised by some very prominent thinkers- including Neitzche, Descartes, Pascal, etc. and no amount of counter-argument from the atheist club can nullify the PERFECTLY LOGICAL possibility of God existing but we having no means (yet) to detect him/her/it/them. Your argument of 'if no evidence present, then God must not exist' is just as stupid as saying 'if no evidence present, murder did not happen'. We clearly know that not all murderers leave evidence worthy of trial, but yet that happens too. While presence of evidence can establish, without a shadow of doubt, that the said phenomenon corresponding to it exists, the lack of evidence cannot lead to the conclusion, without a shadow of doubt, that the said phenomenon doesnt exist.

What exactly will happen to me if I don't believe in God? + if I reject him and call him a jack@ss?

Who knows ? Nothing might happen to you or your ar$e might fry in boiling oil forever. You'll have to wait to find out.

What exactly am I loosing by not following any religion or not believing in a personal god?

Nothing. But by ruling out the possibility of God's existance, you are comitting a logical fallasy because there is no reason to conclude with any certainty that God doesn't exist.

[King]

Answer one question. This goes out to Ravi, CC or anyone else. What exactly will happen to me if I don't believe in God? + if I reject him and call him a jack@ss?

How would I know? I'm not god's messenger. I don't care in what you believe and what you don't. As for I'm concerned I have a right to follow my heart and mind. I don't give you folks a chance to tell me how should I live. I live life according to my thoughts. That is all I care about. I don't go around preaching my religion to you folks so I don't understand what's your problem? Did I ever suggest to you folks how you should lead your life? The right of speech should be for both sides. Anything that you see as strange can be strange from my POV. That exactly is what I want both folks to understand. A person has a free will to follow what he likes. Whether he follows nationalism, socialism, marxism, communism, religion or his culture it is his business as long as it is not unlawful. The same atheists worry about nationalism though. These folks talk in glorious terms about America, freedom of speech, nationalism, flag burning middle east folks but draining down a Quaran or pissing on the images of religious symbols or god is ok with you folks is that? Why do you guys condemn the rest of the world when they burn your flag? Isn't it just a piece of cloth? I show respect for a lot of things that may not really mean much to you folks but I expect you guys not to tarnish it just because you like it. I'm not expecting you folks to follow our belief but why not leave it to the ones that respect it?

[Gaurav]

Most atheists don't give a f@k about nationalism Ravi. Atleast the ones I know. Atheists are probably 4% of US population so are you sure you are not confusing them with right wing christians? Plus atheists are freethinkers and as a result you can find all types of atheists. We don't have some central manifesto which makes us all similar :wink_smile: People in ME can burn as many flags as they want. I don't give a f@k. Does not mean that I am not going to call them out for their cry baby antics.

As for I'm concerned I have a right to follow my heart and mind. I don't give you folks a chance to tell me how should I live. I live life according to my thoughts.

Sure you can follow whatever you want. When did I stop you?

I'm not expecting you folks to follow our belief but why not leave it to the ones that respect it?

Because unlike you most religious folks use their religion to f@k people up! Is that so difficult for you to understand? Would you respect my belief if it consisted of getting rid of you? We would not give a f@k if religious folks believed whatever they want in their own space. The problem is they want to impose their way on EVERYONE!!!!

Nothing. But by ruling out the possibility of God's existance, you are comitting a logical fallasy because there is no reason to conclude with any certainty that God doesn't exist.

Dude that is why people like Dawkins say that it's 99.9% certain that god does not exist. They leave the .1% probability purely for arguments sake because they are scientists and won't rule out any thing 100%. Does not change the ground reality though does it? You can play as much as you want with words but you are still clutching at invisible straws CC :wink_smile:

Your argument of 'if no evidence present, then God must not exist' is just as stupid as saying 'if no evidence present, murder did not happen'. We clearly know that not all murderers leave evidence worthy of trial, but yet that happens too. While presence of evidence can establish, without a shadow of doubt, that the said phenomenon corresponding to it exists, the lack of evidence cannot lead to the conclusion, without a shadow of doubt, that the said phenomenon doesnt exist.

Not all murderers leave evidence but the phenomenon of murder is a fact and well known! We know that there is such a thing as murder because it happens all the time. We have seen it, we find dead bodies, murdered people are missed etc etc. You are comparing that with something that has never been seen my sane people? A god that has never revealed himself? Jeez CC comparing apples with oranges aren't we? :thumbs_down:

[King]

Most atheists don't give a f@k about nationalism Ravi. Atleast the ones I know. Atheists are probably 4% of US population so are you sure you are not confusing them with right wing christians? Plus atheists are freethinkers and as a result you can find all types of atheists. We don't have some central manifesto which makes us all similar

Sounds good in fairy tale. I can show you thousand quotes by the same atheists about their country and nationalistic flavour. It is easy to write down something that you don't follow. Do you feel a pinch when India or the country you reside in loses in a game to say Pakistan or Australia? If you do then you are nationalistic. I can pick your own quote from this forums and show that you are as nationalistic as the next guy. You know that too mate. Writing is easy, following it is hard. The same atheists that don't give a f@k as you say are thumping their chest in the youtube videos and claiming US of A as non bending, great nation.

Because unlike you most religious folks use their religion to f@k people up! Is that so difficult for you to understand? Would you respect my belief if it consisted of getting rid of you? We would not give a f@k if religious folks believed whatever they want in their own space. The problem is they want to impose their way on EVERYONE!!!!

Why don't you guys visit say Iraq, Pakistan or Palestine and do the same if you are so concerned about a religion? Why don't folks that make youtube video go join the army or organize a rally against religion? To be honest likes of this will ever remain anonymous, that's all they are worth. They will be the first to do a runner when faced with a situation. The bloody whiners that cry all day for a video taken off youtube are fighters :hysterical: You guys are saying as if I should go hunt every muslim in town and should flush their book down the drain. Wake up fellas, not every muslim is a killer and that is the fact. Some religions say we should head to a peaceful place and meditate for ever to attain nirvana but do you reckon people that follow that religion do that? I'm not siding with Islam here but just stating the obvious. You guys make it sound as if every muslim in every home is walking out with a shot gun or a sniper and killing people around. Haven't you met a muslim that isn't a murderer? You make is sound as if atheists are one of the cleanest blokes in the world doing good for the world. You make it sound as if they are over hate, nationalism and everything. Talk is pretty cheap mate but these guys are as gullible as the bloke next door:regular_smile: In fact stupid atheist such as that cap or whatever crap his name is will ensure for every 1000 people that watch his video, 900 will side with the religious ones. Uncivilized, hatred ones like that are no better than a terrorist IMO. One uses the gun to spread hatred, the other media.

[Gaurav]

Sounds good in fairy tale. I can show you thousand quotes by the same atheists about their country and nationalistic flavour. It is easy to write down something that you don't follow. Do you feel a pinch when India or the country you reside in loses in a game to say Pakistan or Australia? If you do then you are nationalistic. I can pick your own quote from this forums and show that you are as nationalistic as the next guy. You know that too mate. Writing is easy, following it is hard. The same atheists that don't give a f@k as you say are thumping their chest in the youtube videos and claiming US of A as non bending, great nation.

Ravi I have not been to India in almost 10 years (20+ years if you take out one brief trip) and have no intention of going there any time soon (if ever). I rejected arranged marriage and married a non-Indian. I have reject Indian religions and tons of Indian cultural customs...amongst various other things. Hardly nationalistic mate. Like you said yourself "It is easy to write down something that you don't follow"...so maybe which ever post of mine you are referring to are not 100% what I truly feel about India or how I act in real life. They are accurate but not as India mad as they might appear :sad_smile: Even if I support Indian cricket team then does that makes me hardcore nationalist? You think I have never seen someone burn Indian flag before? Just because I don't believe in god and I don't blindly support everything Indian does not mean that I don't have some love for my roots. So sorry you are making no sense! You are just obsessed with that atheist guys video because he seems to have really pissed you off about some 6 handed Indian demi god. The guy has put his face on all his videos so I don't understand how you can keep repeating that he is chicken? Just for you knowledge if you go to intellectual atheist forums then you would find that most people think that "Captain awesome" is not so awesome.

Why don't you guys visit say Iraq, Pakistan or Palestine and do the same if you are so concerned about a religion? Why don't folks that make youtube video go join the army or organize a rally against religion? To be honest likes of this will ever remain anonymous, that's all they are worth. They will be the first to do a runner when faced with a situation. The bloody whiners that cry all day for a video taken off youtube are fighters :hysterical:

They do organize and take part in rallies. Depends on the person. Anyway what is wrong with personal security and being concerned for the safety of your loved ones? There are atheists who choose to do stuff openly and there are ones who don't. What is the beef? I don't understand your point? Why does it have to be about going to Iraq and fighting some religious nut? For example Richard Dawkins chooses to write books and reaches out to people in that way. No1 on Amazon list, No 1 on NY times list...etc etc. He also runs a foundation and has been to ME to interview religious nuts and try to understand the fanaticism . http://richarddawkins.net/foundation http://richarddawkins.net

You guys are saying as if I should go hunt every muslim in town and should flush their book down the drain. Wake up fellas, not every muslim is a killer and that is the fact. Some religions say we should head to a peaceful place and meditate for ever to attain nirvana but do you reckon people that follow that religion do that? I'm not siding with Islam here but just stating the obvious. You guys make it sound as if every muslim in every home is walking out with a shot gun or a sniper and killing people around. Haven't you met a muslim that isn't a murderer?

By saying "you guys" you are doing exactly what you are accusing us of doing. Atheists can be conservative and atheists can be ultra liberal. The onlyl thing that unites us is the faithlessness NOTHING ELSE! Who told you to go and flush muslim books down the drain? No one told you that! If someone wants to do that and block their toilet then that is their choice. If say 99.9% of christians, muslims, jews...don't commit murder then that still does not change the fact that their perfect religious texts call for murder, bigotry etc etc. Any intelligent atheists knows that NOT all muslims are murderers. Most atheists are attacking their religious teachings/text and the fanatics it creates. Hell even a nutty atheist like "CaptainAwesome" said that he does not hate every muslim but he does think that the ones who follow such teachings are missing few marbles. And he is correct.

You make is sound as if atheists are one of the cleanest blokes in the world doing good for the world. You make it sound as if they are over hate, nationalism and everything. Talk is pretty cheap mate but these guys are as gullible as the bloke next door In fact stupid atheist such as that cap or whatever crap his name is will ensure for every 1000 people that watch his video, 900 will side with the religious ones. Uncivilized, hatred ones like that are no better than a terrorist IMO. One uses the gun to spread hatred, the other media

Uncivilized hatred toward paper, text and imaginary gods? Plezzzeee Ravi! You should look at the history of religion when it comes to torture/slaughter/murder/violence to get better idea of uncivilized, hatred. Btw I never made it sound that rejecting god makes you a good person automatically. Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. I am definitely out of this chat as we seem to be going in circles from one thread to another. It's difficult to work and type such long posts :hysterical:

[King]

Come on GKD, this is only a discussion. You don't have to stop chatting on these things. If we do the world will get a bit boring. I know clearly you aren't that mental type and are a respectable fella. We are not dumb to hate each other's post or views. We respect each other's views and move on. It's only a discussion and does good to the community. It's an education and forum software is the best to happen to internet. The world will get stereotype if we don't question each other's POV.

I have reject Indian religions and tons of Indian cultural customs...amongst various other things. Hardly nationalistic mate.

Have you ever thought why you love to post photos of India/Western connections such as that elderly Idnain pair sitting with a white family or the white chicks dressed in a sari That is proof to your connection with your culture and not proof of your rejection of your culture. You can take anything away from a man but not the roots. Heck I've lived 20+ years outside India and still have fair bit of connection with my roots.

Ravi I have not been to India in almost 10 years (20+ years if you take out one brief trip) and have no intention of going there any time soon (if ever). I rejected arranged marriage and married a non-Indian.

Come on GKD, you didn't mary a non-Indian just because you wanted to reject arranged marriage or Indian culture. You married her foremost because you liked her. What do you reckon everytime I had a non-Indian partner I did it to dislike my culture? No way. I got along because I liked her, nothing to do with rejecting culture or root.

Just because I don't believe in god and I don't blindly support everything Indian does not mean that I don't have some love for my roots.

I thought you said you aren't close to culture or roots and have rejected tons of customs.

So sorry you are making no sense! You are just obsessed with that atheist guys video because he seems to have really pissed you off about some 6 handed Indian demi god. The guy has put his face on all his videos so I don't understand how you can keep repeating that he is chicken?

You talk about him putting his face as if he is Aero Smith or George Bush. If he walks past me tomorrow I wouldn't know him. If he was gutsy enough he would have organized a rally against Islam or would have gone outside Youtube and posted his videos on a different webhost where he could be tracked. He is a chicken and it is pretty evident. No second thoughts about it. This lad looked like he was on a drug when one of his videos was taken off from youtube. He calls for an islam bash week on youtube and people follow him. Now he has a clan of his own. You see a bunch of people post videos bashing islam because the great leader called for it as his video was taken off This guy has a following, how stupid is that? Am I obsessed with him or are you obsessed with having to defend an atheist just because you are one as well(not lunatic but a sensible one) even though he comes across as a retard? I'm not defending religious leader here mate, you are defending a fella atheist though. As I said before I care a hoot if he calls a Hindu god a 6 handed wan..ker. You are defending that bloke because I called him a lunatic Who's obsessed here GKD? You are the one defending his actions. I'm not defending a terrorist here. Looks like you have a preconceived notion about guys that believe in the existence of god. Yes I do believe in the existence of god but I don't care if my family members don't follow the same let alone the rest of the world. What I'm pissed about of course is the ignorance of such lunatics and the way they misuse freedom. If everyone was like him harmony will be a word that will have to be removed from the dictionary.

[King]

BTW we both have over taken Bheem, CC and DR with our long posts :wink_smile: It had been a long time since I wrote so much. Thanks to Varun now I can post more and work less on the website :thumbs_up:

[Gaurav]

Come on GKD, this is only a discussion. You don't have to stop chatting on these things.

I thought you would be happy if I left religion walle threads alone :tounge_smile: J/K

If we do the world will get a bit boring. I know clearly you aren't that mental type and are a respectable fella. We are not dumb to hate each other's post or views. We respect each other's views and move on. It's only a discussion and does good to the community. It's an education and forum software is the best to happen to internet. The world will get stereotype if we don't question each other's POV.

Yaar no worries. I said I want to stop because I spent hours typing when I should have been working. Just look at my avatar and post count...I could type crap all day :hysterical:

Come on GKD, you didn't mary a non-Indian just because you wanted to reject arranged marriage or Indian culture. You married her foremost because you liked her. What do you reckon everytime I had a non-Indian partner I did it to dislike my culture? No way. I got along because I liked her, nothing to do with rejecting culture or root.

Yes exactly but what I was trying to say was that if I was nationalistic type (like some of my x-mates at uni) then I would have made sure that I got hitched to an Indian girl (love or arranged). You know keep the culture thing going and stuff.

I thought you said you aren't close to culture or roots and have rejected tons of customs.

I have but like I said I am not ashamed of my roots or non-appreciative of the good parts of my culture.:thumbs_up: Does not nullify what I said before.

I'm not defending religious leader here mate, you are defending a fella atheist though. As I said before I care a hoot if he calls a Hindu god a 6 handed wan..ker. You are defending that bloke because I called him a lunatic Who's obsessed here GKD? You are the one defending his actions. I'm not defending a terrorist here.

Aree yaar he is not my jigree doste/friend. He is just someone out there debunking religion (granted with crude methods). Still there is no comparison between him and a terrorist who kills people. You are right in that if that guy walks past you then you won't even remember him but religious fanatics are not like you mate. A religious fanatic would know exactly who he was and where he lived. No wonder he gets death threats and has clearly said that he is armed to the teeth :bowwow:

Looks like you have a preconceived notion about guys that believe in the existence of god. Yes I do believe in the existence of god but I don't care if my family members don't follow the same let alone the rest of the world. What I'm pissed about of course is the ignorance of such lunatics and the way they misuse freedom. If everyone was like him harmony will be a word that will have to be removed from the dictionary.

Ok good on you. Yes I do have preconceived notion about people who take religious books like Quran, Bible, Tora as god's word and condemn me to eternal hell or worse. Still if I meet a muslim/christian/jew then I have absolutely ZERO hatred for them unless they give me a real world reason. Same applies to Hindus, Buddhists and others but in general an educated Hindu, Buddhist...I generally find to be lot more reasonable...at least on the surface. Although when it comes to andwishwas then they all take the cake :cake: Waise harmony konse hai is world mein yaar? People are dying every day in religious fights all over the world. Captain walla is hardly the source of all these religious conflicts. He is just a reaction to all that crap. Think of him as Robert de Niro from the movie Taxi Driver :hysterical::hysterical: Ok back to work :teeth_smile:

[kumble_rocks]

Jesus ! I wonder if a scenario would ever occur wherein both GKD and DR embrace Islam !:teeth_smile::embaressed_smile:

[Lurker]

Jesus ! I wonder if a scenario would ever occur wherein both GKD and DR embrace Islam !:teeth_smile::embaressed_smile:

You know what they say about men who absolutely desist gays KR? That maybe there is a gay man trapped inside them....so who knows :marchmellow:

[Gaurav]

Jesus ! I wonder if a scenario would ever occur wherein both GKD and DR embrace Islam !:teeth_smile::embaressed_smile:

Shia or Sunni? :hysterical::hysterical: CC would be wahabbi sunni :haha::thumbs_up::teeth_smile:

[Lurker]

Shia or Sunni? :hysterical::hysterical: CC would be wahabbi sunni :haha::thumbs_up::teeth_smile:

I think you are already half-way on your way to embracing Islam GKD. Afterall you are standing on an oilship farting away an aag ka gola...must be Middle East me thinks.. :hmmmm:

[Gaurav]

Wait you said DR and not CC. I read wrong. Well in CC's case we know the answer---> packing his bags :hysterical: DR does not need to convert as he is already Younis Khan :hysterical: In my case I would fight. Did you not see my long hair walle photo holding a big gun? The only conversion I would do would be a temporary one if my loved ones life was at stake. After that at the first chance my gun would do the talking.

[gator]

it is a fad to call oneself an atheist nowadays.... tht is on one hand.... on the other, u have these bomb-wearing idi0ts who can wait for their fair share of virgins in heaven..... fack, wat happened to moderate, religious and pious people...

[Lurker]

it is a fad to call oneself an atheist nowadays.... tht is on one hand.... on the other, u have these bomb-wearing idi0ts who can wait for their fair share of virgins in heaven..... fack, wat happened to moderate, religious and pious people...

Athiesm is the easiest philosphy in the world. You dont do anything and still get to pretend you are better than the rest. A religious person will atleast spend a few hours every week(if not every day) praying and trying to reach for his God. An athiest would not spend even an hour meditating trying to figure out if God exists or not. The worse thing is when Athiests try to prove Religion and cr@p. That itself wont be wrong if they have answers to the question - like how this world came into existence. However they clearly do not know but still chastise the religious ones. Me suppose I am partly agnostic partly athiest..and partly lazy too :haha:

[gator]

yeah.. thts wat i think... atheism is jus another word for mental laziness.... the reluctance to explore ur own mind, let alone the universe, spirit, deeds, blah blah.... as for me, i have tremendous belief in God and i feel, hinduism offers me ample space to gain knowledge as well as explore on my own....