CC1981 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Such incidents, gorah,are still pretty rare & uncommon in India.Indian society is also quite differentiated in age-related basis. There is a deep & underlying 'four-phased life' in hinduism & the progression towards de-materialism with age is a common tenet in buddhism,jainism & sikkhism too. As such, there is a marked difference in opinions & viewpoints based on age-related demographics. What you said for instance is not uncommon in the high-school/university levels. But it is unheard of in an older demographics, particularly the middle-aged. I get a distinct impression that you havn't been to India or if you've been there, you didn't spend much time there. It might sound like nationalism but fact is, India is one country you cannot learn or know much about until you go there. Its just too diverse & too huge on a human scale to be understood by sitting outside. Indian society has many ills affecting it but racism really is not one of them. Its presence is a very fringe presence because race has never been an identifier in the Indian cultural conciousness till the British came. And lets face it, the British influence to Indian thought is minimal- this is not to belittle the British but when it comes to India, it is a nation of history that is at the very least 6000 years old. a 200 year history is just a small patch in the fabric. This is the reason that racism or race is not even a factor in Indian common conciousness. There are very few & isolated racist mentality people but outside of the cosmopolitan areas, it is unheard of. The only thing even remotely resembling a racial differentiation in India is that fair complexion is highly rated by ALL parties in terms of good looks. Thats it, really. This is not a mere claim- Indian history reflects this as well as Indian philosophy reflects this. Not only has India been a historic refuge of the persecuted ( from Jews to Xtians to Paarsis), its philosophical leaders have always put total emphasis on Dharma + Karma and openly denounced racism from the get-go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Neo-liberalism is an economic position. In North America, that term is often used to describe liberal minded people as a whole. Thanks the hardcore fundie right-winger community in North America - which is almost totally absent in mainstream Europe. But hey, i suggest you don't take this guy very seriously- he is an open admirer of Fox channel. That should tell you all, really. This person is also a very racist person- he is a bihari who hates Bengalis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Guess what - Britian aint very racist (or decadent lol) either - dosent mean these small instances arnt treated with due concern. I only ask that you dont be dismissive about what is real racism, no matter how rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share Posted June 10, 2007 Really enjoyed reading that post, CC. But does it let us off though? GP could say, "Well, so you are not racist. Big deal! You are still casteist. You are still sexist." Slightly digressing from the discussion here, but would love to know your views. Are we any less "----ist" than others because we practice a different form of "----ism?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 In North America, that term is often used to describe liberal minded people as a whole. Thanks the hardcore fundie right-winger community in North America - which is almost totally absent in mainstream Europe. But hey, i suggest you don't take this guy very seriously- he is an open admirer of Fox channel. That should tell you all, really. This person is also a very racist person- he is a bihari who hates Bengalis. Ironic isnt it, how the Republicans in America would have once-upon-a-time welcomed arguments in favour of laise-faire capitalism, and are now instead using neo-liberal to describe their political opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Guess what - Britian aint very racist (or decadent lol) either - dosent mean these small instances arnt treated with due concern. I only ask that you dont be dismissive about what is real racism' date=' no matter how rare.[/quote'] I wouldn't say Britain is racist in the same way it was 40 years ago. But i think the issues relating to race/racism still plays a big part in the british (and western) conciousness. So it is kind of not free from the effects. But the whole 'concept' of race is non-existant in the mainstream Indian culture. There is no racial construct in any sphere of Indian life, neither has there ever been. As vile as the caste system is, there was never a racial element in it- nobody in any part of India ever batted an eyelash at a super-dark brahmin or a super-pale and almost white untouchable. As per as being dismissive- i see no point in running after every Tom, Dick & Harry for everything. I am far more interested in the general picture and what the prevalent mentality is. These are far more societerial issues than individual issues to me since i can easily pick/reject individuals to my liking but society is unfortunately far harder to do that with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumble_rocks Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Meanwhile as we speak , another Sikh refuses to remove his kirpan at the airport. I say , ban these stupid religious customs . http://www.asianimage.co.uk/news/latest/display.var.1444870.0.man_refused_entrA victory for the religious faithful has been won by a Sikh man who was refused entry to passport offices while wearing the holy Kirpan. Tarsem Singh, 27, always wears the Kirpan, a symbolic three inch dagger, as it is one of the five K's which he is required to wear as an initiated Sikh, and he was offended by the way he was treated when he went to the Identity and Passport Service buildings in London Victoria to change his passport picture. He said he was humiliated by security guards who perceived him as a threat and insisted he could not enter the building without removing the dagger. He said: "I felt like they were talking down to me and didn't look at me as a British citizen even though I was born here. It made me feel very small and it was really disheartening. "Before I became seriously religious, people saw me as more a part of the community, but now because I was wearing a turban people looked at me as if I am a part of Al-Qaeda and that is a horrible experience." Mr Singh took the opportunity to change the rules for other members of the Sikh community, and with the support of his manager, Wilson Chowdhry at AA Security in Cranbrook Road, he has managed to turn things around. advertisement do_dp_ad(); Sikh customers entering IPS premesis whilst carrying the Kirpan will now be asked to place it in a small box which has been blessed at a Sikh gurdwara (temple) and it will be retained by security guards until they leave. A Home Office spokeswoman said: "Sikh customers who do not feel able to follow the procedure outlined will be able to conduct their business at a specially designated window thus ensuring the customer's needs are met." Mr Singh said: "I'm happy about the fact that we can now go in as citizens, because we are a part of Britain and we want to be able to go into the buildings as anyone else can. "We just want to be able to carry on with our lives as everyone else does." y_over_sikh_dagger.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rajiv Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 And Rajeev' date=' London's cool. If you haven't visited, take the plunge. Unforgettable.[/quote'] I would love to, been there in 1983 but spent more time in Manchester Don't take those comments so seriously, it's customary to add fuel to a fired up thread :cantstop: Ahh, UK..now there was another girl there..but nevermind if my earlier post was a tall tale, this would sound a yash chopra script :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Slightly digressing from the discussion here, but would love to know your views. Are we any less "----ist" than others because we practice a different form of "----ism?" I think all forms of discrimination are bad but i specially highlight racism for being distinctly worse than any. This is because discrimination due to ideological reasons are felt less individually and it is also relatively easy to free yourself from. But racial discrimination is something you are stuck with. For eg, if you are an untouchable, you can learn some Gita, move to a new town and live like a Brahmin. Nobody will ask/doubt you etc. But if you are a black man living in 1900s Britain, how do you escape it ? You don't. Racism being discrimination based on something you cannot control at all is inherently more crippling and thus inherently worse than any other form of discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I fail to see how 'sacchi mohabbat' or 'jhoothi mohabbat' is a factor when meeting girlfriend equals 1500 dollar plane ticket + horribly over-priced English motels. Well obviously it'd have been different if one of us came from a millionaire family. But we don't! Abhe Bollywood ka example meine diya aur tab bhi tuje mera joke samaj nahi aiya? Bada touchy hai re tu :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 My thoughts exactly. What a sh*thole. Watch it! :hysterical: It's not like US of A is any better! :thumbs_down: You are kidding yourself man - saying it dosent constitute racism because its India and stuff. Do you know how false that sounds? How much of a lame excuse that is? Are you one of the people who think white women are sluts' date=' etc? [b']I think ill leave this thread alone - because all ive dug up is a load of bigotry. I guess you missed the thread where our so called logic driven friends were saying that white parents don't love their kids like Indian parents do :hysterical: Indians can be as racists if not worse. Caste system on it's own covers our white dhoti full of **** :omg_smile: Just read any shadi walla advert :hysterical: CC I know caste system is not = racism but the effect can be similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 CC I know caste system is not = racism but the effect can be similar. If you think that, then all i gotto say is, your western masters have taught you well, o minion. Seriously, you have no idea...none ! Just because you are Indian in ethnicity, doesn't mean you know India- especially for someone in your position (born & brought up in foreign country). Either listen to what we have to say or go live in India to form an opinion. But until then, fact remains that you are talking total poppy****. Samjhe, vats ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Yes. You are a renowned fundie-hindu and muslim-basher here. We all know that. Thanks for further broadcast. Another garbage filled response when faced with road-block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Neo-liberalism is an economic position. Says who, these clowns pontificate on everything under the sun while wearing that tag how can it remain just econmic position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 In North America, that term is often used to describe liberal minded people as a whole. Thanks the hardcore fundie right-winger community in North America - which is almost totally absent in mainstream Europe. But hey, i suggest you don't take this guy very seriously- he is an open admirer of Fox channel. That should tell you all, really. This person is also a very racist person- he is a bihari who hates Bengalis. U are the biggest castist I have ever seen. Reason when I see a guy going on and on about his ancestors I see here is the casteist clown. yes for the record I don't hate bengali per se Gangu dada wud not have been my fav cricketer clown but I certainly am ashamed of certain attributes of these folks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 If you think that, then all i gotto say is, your western masters have taught you well, o minion. Seriously, you have no idea...none ! Just because you are Indian in ethnicity, doesn't mean you know India- especially for someone in your position (born & brought up in foreign country). Either listen to what we have to say or go live in India to form an opinion. But until then, fact remains that you are talking total poppy****. Samjhe, vats ? ' :hysterical: CC you are full of cr@p! Just because I talk about negative parts of our culture you accuse me of being a "minion"? :hysterical: You are all hot air and no substance! Zakir Naik of ICF?:hysterical: You truly are funny I must say! Not that it matters but I was born in India and lived almost 15 years in various parts of the country from extreme North all the way down to Maharashtra and everywhere in between (excluding east and south India) :cantstop: Only in Kashmir I found cast system almost non existent as everyone there was Brahmin/Pandit anyway. Everywhere else cast system and discrimination was very much alive! People like you brush the problem under the carpet instead of highlighting and fixing it. Get off your high horses as your verbal kung fu might impress some people but it won't have any effect on me :hysterical: :devil_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 U are the biggest castist I have ever seen. Totally baseless accuasation ! I have never propagated anything about caste, infact i've said caste system is evil many many times.You cannot show a single post from me where i've supported caste system.I realize that you have the urge to potray me as equally bigoted since i've proven you to be a pucca racist here but if you want people to buy it with even a shadow of confidence, you must try better than resorting to boldfaced lies that cannot be backed up by a single quotation and/or insinuation from my part. With that, begone ! yes for the record I don't hate bengali per se Gangu dada wud not have been my fav cricketer clown but I certainly am ashamed of certain attributes of these folks .It is not just me - SEVERAL acclaimed posters here consider you racist towards Bengalis thanks to your comments about Bengalis that are not only prejudiced but also utterly false. Something that i proved historically and you ran away like a lil coward when confronted with facts. And like a dumb racist, you keep repeating the same incorrect spiel despite being corrected by facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Gai, I still stand by what i said if you consider the effects of the caste system to be similar to racism- which is categorically not true. People like you brush the problem under the carpet instead of highlighting and fixing it. Please- spare me the nonsense. I've categorically said caste system is evil & it needs to go many many times here. Just because i am arguing that caste system is nowhere as bad in its effects as racism (no other form of discrimination is, i stated the reasons for that and i don't see you take that up !) ,it does not make me a caste-backer. But then again, you are one of those 'on/off' brigade who thinks that if i say you are wrong, i am automatically endorsing your opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feverpitch Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I don't think this story would have been featured on BBC or the existence of this thread for that matter if the Sikh girl converted to Hinduism or Christianity Its quite likely that BBC featured this event because the underlying threat of communal conflict. As for the issue in itself, the girl is 18 years of age, and as such is old enough, imho, to take an independent decision. The problem imho lies elsewhere. Inevitably, one feels, patriarchy has a role to play in the way communities react to such an event. a. on most occasions where an emotional bond [love] leads to conversion in the hope of conjugal union, the women are expected to convert. b. simultaneously, in the wider community of the male, there is a sense of having emasculated the community of the female. c. and it follows that in the wider community of the female, there is a sense of shame and emasculation at having lost 'one of their' women. what is significant is that in all the above steps, the wider community tends to look at their women as 'property', which is why such feelings arise. its likely because of the child bearing capability of women [something denied to men by nature] that this happens. women are necessary for the continuation of a patrilineal heritage, and their loss is thus construed as a loss of property. the matriarchs of all communities are, imho, as much responsible in bearing such feelings as the patriarchs. what they do is generate patriarchal bias. very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 the wider community tends to look at their women as 'property', which is why such feelings arise. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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