CC1981 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 That dosent sound like the conclusion that would be reached by a non-biased examination of British influence on India.How so ? We are talking culture here...you surely arnt gonna say 'democracy' or anything from governance-related stuff,are you ? For one, brits adoped a LOT of governance practices from observing India (essentially, Sher-Shah's works observed later in Jahangiri period). For two, i fail to see the 'cultural impact' of britain that is in any way a british culture..except for cricket. And as popular as cricket is, its still negligible in the entire cultural spectrum...no sport is that valuable. And even if you were to be right, it still doesnt qualify as a 'part of our cultural sphere' since it is too short a period (couple of hundred years) as opposed to several thousand years in total for Afghanistan-India relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 You dont get to pick and choose culture - even the most remote influence is 'part' of our culture - never mind two centuries of pervasive British influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 CC, There is obvious influence of British on our culture, atleast the way India is today. For example as late as during 1850's most Indians would stay up till late and wake up late. To put some sort of time they would get up at noonish and stay up till midnight or later. The situation was obviously different for farmers but otherwise bulk stayed like this. This tradition continues today in many of old towns. For example if you go to Indore the market starts assembling around 3-4 pm and goes as late as 12 pm or later. British culture was obviously different. Brits would get up early and slept up early too. You are looking at getting up at 4 am and hitting the bed around 9 pm or so. Now if you look at the way an average Indian lives today we typically follow more of a British timeframe than Indian. Another example could be how the chewing paan has declined over the years. It is as Indian as one can get, and one can trace it to thousand of years, maybe even more. However it declines by the day and is abhored by "educated" populace. On the other hand tea-drinking or coffee is thought of as good habits. Well guess where did they come from. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 You dont get to pick and choose culture - even the most remote influence is 'part' of our culture - never mind two centuries of pervasive British influence. Which is what, exactly ?What is the cultural influence of the british culture ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holysmoke Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 tea-drinking or coffee is thought of as good habits. Well guess where did they come from. xxxx not really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varun Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 here's a good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_India Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 not really Aaj kya shorthand mein hi baat karega?? :damnmate: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Lurker..i agree with the cultural effects of coffee/tea...but i disagree with the waking-up practice example...early sunrise has been a very big part of Indian culture from ancient times...true, not everyone followed it and many lived different hours..but that is the story with India. Comming from a brahmin family, i know that early morning bath and 'surya pranaam' prayers at dawn are integral to the 'hindu way'. Besides, i meant what 'new' things did the British culture bring in that we didn't have ? There are aspects to our culture we had before that we lost and re-discovered...whether through the british or even before or after british is irrelevant...those you cannot count as 'contributions of the british culture'...that signifies a cultural trait/custom introduced that wasn't there before. Tea/Coffee/Pan/Cricket...i agree with..which is why i said they had 'little' influence, not 'no influence'....i can easily argue that India's cultural influence on Britain is far greater than the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 ^^ how can you think of cricket as a little influence on Indian culture CC? Frankly cricket is one of those things that ties India together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 ^^ how can you think of cricket as a little influence on Indian culture CC? Frankly cricket is one of those things that ties India together. I dont see it as a HUGE influence...atleast not on an overall cultural scale....its just a sport, not even a religion and religion is far more encompassing and influential on your way of life/thought/interactions than a sport is or ever will be. Yet when sharing religions arnt considered sharing cultures, cricket doesnt enter the picture in the grand scale. As i said, there is some fringe influences on cultural basis, but not much on overall...Iran has influenced us more i think than the British. And i still don't get how being influenced by another foreign culture is the same as being the same culture in India and ancient Afghanistan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I suppose then the question become what do you define as culture and what do you think of some of the important ingredients of a culture. A non-Indian who comes to India for example would be hard-pressed to find things that are more prevalent, widely followed and respected than the game of cricket. To you it may be a little influence but to a non-Indian that would be a huge influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I dont see it as a HUGE influence...atleast not on an overall cultural scale....its just a sport' date=' not even a religion and religion is far more encompassing and influential on your way of life/thought/interactions than a sport is or ever will be. Yet when sharing religions arnt considered sharing cultures, cricket doesnt enter the picture in the grand scale. As i said, there is some fringe influences on cultural basis, but not much on overall...Iran has influenced us more i think than the British. And i still don't get how being influenced by another foreign culture is the same as being the same culture in India and ancient Afghanistan[/quote'] Again, this stuff about 'overall scale' basically is your personal opinion. Cricket was a great example, but you need not look far to see others: - English is the de-facto langauge of secular Indian interaction - There are 600 pubs in Bangalore - Field hockey is the national sport etc, etc, etc Its tempting to think in terms of Huntingdon's 'Clash of Civilizations' and talk about cultural purity - but there is no such thing - culture is pure when it is most pluralistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Huge impact is not just popularity..there are fads that've lasted a few generations and vanished too..not saying cricket is one but its just a caution against using popularity as the sole impact-guage. It isnt even that big a guage because impact of cultures/cultural infleunces is felt not just in following a trend but what are the thoughts, intellectual developments and sociological impact of that trend... To vast majority of Indians, cricket is still a very small aspect of life and to many,its non-existant. Personally, i am not sold on cricket being that popular in India either- there is HARDLY any interest in cricket from north-eastern India....plus i've personally come across many many Indians who are quite apathetic to cricket or even hate cricket. Its popular,allright..but not very much so. And by the total cultural spectrum, i mean philosophy, art,literature,language, performance-arts, social customs, etiquette customs, etc etc as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 - English is the de-facto langauge of secular Indian interaction It merely displaced Urdu as de-facto language, thats all...but whats more important is that English language is pertty much a mode of formal communication or goverance in India..there is very little cultural presence in English...the field of english drama, english opera, english poetry, english entertainment (ie, indegenous produced) is minimal...but overall, i grant you that it is a pretty good contribution...though not on a cultural scale but communications scale. - There are 600 pubs in Bangalore There were pubs in India before the maniac muslim rulers showed up, too! Indian brewing was legendary in the past- even the Babylonians and Persians used to crave our 'soma' and have mentioned it in their literature as one of the most eagerly-sought luxury from India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 ^^ You can not compare the impact of British on Indian culture with say the impact of Hinduism on Indian culture. Reason being the former had been in India for what 300 odd years while the latter has been for many thousand years. My point being British influence started around 300 years back and still there is a significant impact. We can argue that you dont consider it huge and that I do but we can not dispute the impact itself. Who knows if India 200 years from now would be the way we know it or more Western than the West? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 You can not compare the impact of British on Indian culture with say the impact of Hinduism on Indian culture. I am not... Who knows if India 200 years from now would be the way we know it or more Western than the West? I pray that India doesn't go the way of the west. But it may be too late. If India goes along the western lines, here is what to expect: a civil war somewhere down the road, then total nukage of Pakistan, we cut down all the forests, elephants are only statues, peacocks are only in paintings, colourful and diverse construction of city gone and replaced with giant LEGO-style housing blocks/office towers, sprawling freeways, family life is a distant memory-most people living their sad lil lonely lives like today in the west, world ecology further devastated due to the loss of India's biomass...Indian population around 2-3 billion....curry-take outs and fast-carry joints dime-a-dozen...lot of stupid kids with cars and wiping out doing stupid stuff or drunk-driving.... That is 'India as the west'....not where i'd want to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 ^^ I don't want it either but it surely seems to be going that route. Hindi movies are Hindi no more. Indians seem to be happy with a foreign language to be the "bridge" than one of the native language. Indian traditional medicine system is down the dumps, as is the traditional guru-shishya parampara. Indian folk music is losing its roots and movies and television are becoming a carbon copy of West. Indian sports are looked at with disdain while foreign sports rule the roost. Give me a reason to think we wont end up as a West in the East. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varun Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I pray that India doesn't go the way of the west. But it may be too late. If India goes along the western lines, here is what to expect: a civil war somewhere down the road, then total nukage of Pakistan, we cut down all the forests, elephants are only statues, peacocks are only in paintings, colourful and diverse construction of city gone and replaced with giant LEGO-style housing blocks/office towers, sprawling freeways, family life is a distant memory-most people living their sad lil lonely lives like today in the west, world ecology further devastated due to the loss of India's biomass...Indian population around 2-3 billion....curry-take outs and fast-carry joints dime-a-dozen...lot of stupid kids with cars and wiping out doing stupid stuff or drunk-driving.... That is 'India as the west'....not where i'd want to go! Hah, that's never happenning CC. Back to roots is what's hip in india these days. The nuovo riche with their drunk-driving-take-out-joints is slowly dissolving. Go to any high-end place, and you'll find find that they are integrating rural indian crafts with modern technology. And it's not just the decor, even utility items and utensils, children's games, architecture, etc are being revived. I know 'coz my sis is into that, and it's the big thing these days. It encourages rural crafts (where there is a LOTT of talent) and provides them with sustenance while also highlighting our rich cultural heritage which continues to survive in the villages. I agree that most of the middle class is just aping the west, but remember when it was the upper-class which was aping the west, but it filtered down onto the middle class later. I believe you'll find a similar trickle down effect of what's "cool", and therefore more widely adopted by the middle class soon. What comes along with such a revival of arts and crafts, is a sense of belonging and awakening among the populace. They identify themselves with India more and the "aping-the-west" effect is morphed into an amalgam of our cultural heritage with the comforts of modern technology. So fear not, I believe we'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I agree with most except the classical/folk music & dance scene..yes, it is not super-popular like bollywood masala is but higher art forms are a fringe popularity everywhere,even in the west. This is because the higher art forms have little or no appeal to the 'instant gratification' mind- one needs to understand the basics of raag or taal to really enjoy a sitar recital... But fortunately, India's traditional art/dance form is not only alive, it is actually thriving and at the moment, taking root in the west. Its the era when Russians are taking to Kathak and Saris are proliferating in London..My mother is involved in the indian classical scene very intimately...she is quite annoyed/angry that it has so little government backing like arts have in the west..but one thing she isnt concerned about is the genre's survival. Our 'high arts' are safe...for the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=3010&highlight=Muslim+Woman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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