Predator_05 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 http://www.rediff.com/sports/2003/jul/28chandhok.htm When Formula One was telecast live on Doordarshan, we had a viewership of 60-70 million. For the live interview I did with Mr. Ecclestone, from the race track at Silverstone on a Sunday at 8 pm, the viewership was 91.3 million! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I am no fan of non-Indians coming to India for an event which has little or no relevance to India. And thats where your argument is falling apart - should we not sell ICT services to foreign countries either then, just because hardly any Indians use a computer? That is the sort of nationalistic isolationism you are arguing for, by insisting that India only spends on things Indians enjoy. I will repeat what I said above: Who cares? As long as the money comes from somewhere, why are you complaining - I really dont understand how you can be picky about where India gets its money from - you should be glad whatever the hell we end up with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Who cares? As long as the money comes from somewhere, why are you complaining - I really dont understand how you can be picky about where India gets its money from - you should be glad whatever the hell we end up with! So in sports does the game come first or money. I have always thought of revenue as a by-product of sports not the other way around. Your arguyment that we should go for things that only Indians enjoy is what I am calling isolationist. The world makes money by selling its services to others - and your argument that India shouldnt invest in F1 sounds like idealistic Nehruvian isolationism - the very thing that kept India poor for 50 years. You read Friedman's book - so you know what I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Thanks to Gandhian nationalism, and Nehruvian socialism, India persued the juvenile policy of trying to build an isolated economy for years, ruining every sector. At the same time, countries like South Korea and Japan lept ahead by selling their products to the world, and getting rich. Now India is finally taking part in the world again like a normal economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 And thats where your argument is falling apart - should we not sell ICT services to foreign countries either then' date=' just because hardly any Indians use a computer? That is the sort of nationalistic isolationism you are arguing for, by insisting that India only spends on things Indians enjoy. [/quote'] Errr no. Thats where your argument is falling apart if anything. You are comparing ICT with Formula 1! ICT is a business. It is pure economics. Companies are in here to make money. Sports on the other hand is NOT about money and hence I do not quite see the analogy. Let me ask you this - Do you think MONEY drives a sports or it is only a byproduct? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Thanks to Gandhian nationalism, and Nehruvian socialism, India persued the juvenile policy of trying to build an isolated economy for years, ruining every sector. At the same time, countries like South Korea and Japan lept ahead by selling their products to the world, and getting rich. That is economics and I have no problem with that philosphy. However to say economics and sports are one and the same thing is ridiculous. It is not. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Personally I find that idea distasteful. I mean I am not a firm beleiver in "Ends justifying the means" - so long as we make money it is all good and all. There is nothing distasteful in making money that way- everyone is the winner..indian economy, people who come over, the racers, the viewers..nobody getting shafted...everyone either making top money for providing services or paying top money for services. Still for arguments sake how do you know that we are going to invite such tourists in the first place. because that is the standard size of 'tourist influx' for F1 events in established events...like i said, the number wont be hundreds of thousands early on..the track needs to establish itself over a few seasons first... In the same vein why are we assuming that India will attract the same number of crowd as does a Japan, Hungary or Malaysia? Because there isnt any reason why it'd be any different in India's case. I am no fan of non-Indians coming to India for an event which has little or no relevance to India. It has huge relevance to India...as much relevance, if not more than setting up SEZs for its a huge economic potential/investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 ICT is a business. It is pure economics. Companies are in here to make money. Sports on the other hand is NOT about money and hence I do not quite see the analogy. 1. F1 isnt a sport in the true sense. Even F1 drivers admit this- it is entertainment with 'rules'. No genre is sport when the result is 80% dependent on the equipment/machine and 20% on the man operating it! 2. F1 too is a business for making money by selling entertainment..nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 So in sports does the game come first or money. I have always thought of revenue as a by-product of sports not the other way around. Let me explain the difference in thinking - you dont run a state - you are just a fan. Those who do run governments long ago learnt the economic value of sport. Not quite. Isolationist would be if we played cricket and played cricket all the time at home. A sort of take on age-old era where Indians refused to go saat-samundar paar lest they be thrown out of their caste. What is not isolationist is when you are more than happy to invest in your main sports to become a powerhouse. To invest in complete alien sports which does not have a fan base, nor any Indian player in top ranks suggests that it is being done for non-sporting reasons. Plain and simple. Calling it 'alien' displays a xenophobic view of the world - as if a sport can ever be 'alien' in a global world - and as if it matters. Most countries welcome any sport they can host - your attitude on the other hand is more like that of an extremist state - the idea that a country should reject 'alien' things, and focus on its 'native' culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator_05 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 To invest in complete alien sports which does not have a fan base' date=' nor any Indian player in top ranks suggests that it is being done for non-sporting reasons.[/quote'] Who cares ? The primary objective is to generate revenue. I also take issue with your statement that the project is being carried out entirely for non-sporting reasons. Thanks to this - India's racing infrastructure develops as a consequence, so we might well witness another Indian racing a top Formula 1 car in the near future. Karthikeyan's breaking of the ice 2 years ago with Jordan was ample indication that there IS a huge market for F1 in India and it speaks volumes of the # prospective F1 enthusiasts there are in the country. I suggest you read the figures i quoted in my last post on this thread - 91 million was the top viewership recorded for an F1 race the last time it was broadcast live on DD. Hockey - even with the advent of the PHL, doesn't even compare as far as overall viewership is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Errr no. Thats where your argument is falling apart if anything. You are comparing ICT with Formula 1! ICT is a business. It is pure economics. Companies are in here to make money. Sports on the other hand is NOT about money and hence I do not quite see the analogy. Let me ask you this - Do you think MONEY drives a sports or it is only a byproduct? xxxx "ICT is a business but F1 aint" - how nieve can you get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 There is nothing distasteful in making money that way- everyone is the winner..indian economy, people who come over, the racers, the viewers..nobody getting shafted...everyone either making top money for providing services or paying top money for services. Of course there is distaste in it. Simply because you have a sports in your country for primarily non-sporting reason. What is there to like about it then? because that is the standard size of 'tourist influx' for F1 events in established events...like i said, the number wont be hundreds of thousands early on..the track needs to establish itself over a few seasons first... Thats what most of the events are suggested to be. Thousands of people travel for a good sporting event. But the number of tourist that will travel to Australia is always more than than in West Indies let alone India. So we need to be careful about this whole - look how many people made it to Japan or Malaysia. Because there isnt any reason why it'd be any different in India's case. It is different in cricket, different in hockey, different in tennis. Sorry I would much go by what happens than what "may" happen. It has huge relevance to India...as much relevance, if not more than setting up SEZs for its a huge economic potential/investment. I will repeat what I have said to the other poster. All the support for F1 is being based on one and only one line of thought - Money. Noone has yet given me a different reason for F1 to be welcomed in India. A sport coming to India for largely non-sporting reasons. Why should I be happy about it? xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 There is nothing distasteful in making money that way- everyone is the winner.. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 To invest in complete alien sports which does not have a fan base, nor any Indian player in top ranks suggests that it is being done for non-sporting reasons. Plain and simple. When the non-sporting reason brings in hundreds of millions of dollars in the economy over the long run, especially to a developing economy,it is far more important an reason than any sporting reason that revolves around hollow ideas like nationalism or pride. End of day, people living better lives is worth more than some meaningless chest-thumping rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 "ICT is a business but F1 aint" - how nieve can you get? You skirted my question GP. Let me put it again. You are comparing ICT with Formula 1! ICT is a business. It is pure economics. Companies are in here to make money. Sports on the other hand is NOT about money and hence I do not quite see the analogy. Let me ask you this - Do you think MONEY drives a sports or it is only a byproduct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Money quite obiously drives a sport. Even hardcore football fans in Italy and Britian are willing to admit that. Not that this has jack to do with India making money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Who cares ? The primary objective is to generate revenue. I also take issue with your statement that the project is being carried out entirely for non-sporting reasons. Thanks to this - India's racing infrastructure develops as a consequence, so we might well witness another Indian racing a top Formula 1 car in the near future. Two things. Firstly you suggest that this is primarily for revenue. Which is basically another support on the whole MONEY saga. My criticism for F1, a sports, is mostly based on sporting reasons. While the supports of F1 are basing all their supports of non-sporting reasons. That is kinda hilarious no? I mean I would have loved to see the reasons why F1 will be popular in India, not why F1 will make money. Secondly, witnessing another Indian racing a Formula 1 is a different cup of tea. He may, he may not. As karthik showed we do not need a F1 base to have that. That merits a question. Where does India, as a country, rank in F1 circuit? F1 supporters please throw some light. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Simply because you have a sports in your country for primarily non-sporting reason. What is there to like about it then? this is what there is to like about it: When the non-sporting reason brings in hundreds of millions of dollars in the economy over the long run, especially to a developing economy,it is far more important an reason than any sporting reason that revolves around hollow ideas like nationalism or pride. End of day, people living better lives is worth more than some meaningless chest-thumping rights. Thats what most of the events are suggested to be. Thousands of people travel for a good sporting event. But the number of tourist that will travel to Australia is always more than than in West Indies let alone India. So we need to be careful about this whole - look how many people made it to Japan or Malaysia. And i am telling you...F1 is the BIGGEST travelling circus in the world by a country-mile. If you want to see # of visitors, its easily over hundred thousand for Malaysia or Japan. It is different in cricket, different in hockey, different in tennis. Sorry I would much go by what happens than what "may" happen. eh ???! Wtf is hockey or cricket doing there ? The entire idea is about F1 and its fans and they travelling..if they are travelling to Malaysia, Japan, Bahrain etc, they will travel to India too. Noone has yet given me a different reason for F1 to be welcomed in India. Doesnt need one over the money. A sport coming to India for largely non-sporting reasons. Why should I be happy about it? Because it is gonna make lives better for a lot of Indians and its as fail-safe garantee as you can get...ie, its far more profitable than any other sporting event that comes and goes for 3-4 days a week. Far more important a reason than chest-thumping rights over some meaningless notions of nationalism. Cash influx to the economy directly is far more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I mean I would have loved to see the reasons why F1 will be popular in India, not why F1 will make money. I dont give one hoot about how popular F1 becomes in India...its far more important as to how much money F1 will generate for India. That merits a question. Where does India, as a country, rank in F1 circuit? F1 supporters please throw some light. Nowhere. India is more of a footballing superpower than F1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Money quite obiously drives a sport. Even hardcore football fans in Italy and Britian are willing to admit that. Not that this has jack to do with India making money. Then we can close this discussion as we would never come to a conclusion and I do not want to waste my time, and yours. Money, to me, is very important in a sports but the day money starts driving a sport, the sport loses all its charm, innocence and appeal. Brazil's soccer team is world champion precisely because of love of the game as is Australian cricket team. As for money driven English clubs or BCCI well we both know where they stand, dont they? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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