Ram Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Heard the Indian Olympic Association has signed an agreement with Eccelstone guy to hold a F1 race in Mumbai in 2009.. Conservative estimates say , it would cost $300 million to build the track and a further $30 million for licensing fee every year... Isnt it ironical that , in a city of million of slum dwellers , you are going to have one of the most visible signs capitalist consumerism -- An F1 race, with all the glitz , glamour and vulgar expression of wealth. And I just saw an article in IEEE spectrum magazine about how India is going to spend $30 billion or arms buying in the next 5 years.. If only people can see shun symbolism and adress reality.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Agreed. Waste of time, money and space. I have never been a fan of F1 racing anyway. I mean sure I can sit and watch some of the Grand Prix events but not the kind of fan that would exclusively visit a club to sip beer and watch the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 i agree its wasteful, its decadent, and above all it fraks the environment. but hey i still love it. so yeah i support F1 in india, even though it is the quintessential embodiment of all that i find deplorable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Agree there on the F1....but not on the arms thingyy... What are you going to fight with when friendly neighbours trouble again?.....I could understand if we were a country that hadn't seen wars....but with our history, being well prepared to defend is a very sound investment in the future.Anyone who thinks we are wasting money is just a dreamer.We need to cut out wasteful expenditure and make sure the money is used to get us the best training and the most effective weapons.It is very important if we have to defend our freedom and all that goes with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Heard the Indian Olympic Association has signed an agreement with Eccelstone guy to hold a F1 race in Mumbai in 2009.. Conservative estimates say , it would cost $300 million to build the track and a further $30 million for licensing fee every year... Isnt it ironical that , in a city of million of slum dwellers , you are going to have one of the most visible signs capitalist consumerism -- An F1 race, with all the glitz , glamour and vulgar expression of wealth. And I just saw an article in IEEE spectrum magazine about how India is going to spend $30 billion or arms buying in the next 5 years.. If only people can see shun symbolism and adress reality.... I would look at the money having F1 brings before leaping to any conclusions about it being a waste - if the government earns back 300mn, then it obiously isnt a waste at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Why do you guys look at it as an expense and not an investment ? You guys realize that hosting an F1 race is HUGE business ? I dunno about european GPs but i know for a fact that during the Canadian GP weekend, the total economy of Montreal increases by 80 million every year ! The number of tourists, thousands of top-brass techincal personnel, media, driver, sponors etc. showing up means BIG BIG business for the city. Seriously, its the biggest travelling circus in the world- not only is it good news for Delhi, i HOPE that Delhi GP stays for atleast 10 years.....Delhi could make hundreds of crores of rupees over this. And the best part is, this revenue isnt from sponsorships that some politician will eat up. This is the revenue from increased tourists,trade, hotel,food services, etc. industry and is a direct injection into the economy. Basically, hundreds of thousands of tourists show up and all these tourists are fairly rich, some super-rich.Maybe less in the first couple of years but if the track is a good design and its an exciting race-track like Suzuka or Spa, it'll definitely take off ( provided Delhi's infrastructure can handle a few hundered thousand tourists) and Delhi will be counting the money. F1 is big business...Michael Schumcher make Tendulkar seem like a bhikhaari in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator_05 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Not to mention the number of jobs that will be created when the construction project commences. People expressed similar sentiments about the Delhi Metro when it was first proposed; "yaar, why are we shelling out all this cash on some stupid train when people are dying everyday...blah blah blah". The country will go nowhere if people have such a defeatist attitude about everything. "Vulgar expression of wealth" ? Tell me, why should India's burgeoning middle and upper classes feel ashamed of their hard earned wealth ? Besides, i doubt the public will take to the idea anyway. Chandrababu Naidu was talking about bringing F1 to Hyderabad, and he duly got the boot for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Thats what pisses me off about 'waste of money' objections - they display a juvenile knolwedge of how the world works. I guess some people dont have a clue what the word investment actually means, and why a country should attract it. They think that if you buy a new race course or transport system, that the money for it stays locked up in that system until it rusts away, and only the people who use it benefit. Wrong - the whole point of investment is to generate greater money than the initial amount put in - say you spend 500mn on a new transport system - you do this in knolwedge that it will bring back 1000mn within ten years, and create millions of jobs: 1). Because it is built by needy workers for a salary. 2). Because the city that uses it is a better business environment, creating jobs. 3). Because the people who run the system once it is built are also employed. I can understand a small child not grasping the need to attract projects like F1, if their experience of capitalism amounts to paying for sweets and consuming them, but a teenager or adult should really know better - this is very basic stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I would look at the money having F1 brings before leaping to any conclusions about it being a waste - if the government earns back 300mn' date=' then it obiously isnt a waste at all.[/quote'] There are a few holes in that theory GP. 1) F1 does not rank in top games amongst Indians. I think we can safely suggest the number of die-hard F1 fans in India would most likely be in single digits(%age wise). How fair it is to then spend 300 millions or thereabouts on such a game and not say Badminton which is far more popular. Indeed the latter is a case in point since Bombay, a traditional badminton powerhouse and the city where F1 track is supposed to be built, does not get any Badminton events to host these days because of lack of infrastructure. 2) India does not rank amongst the top F1 countries, and frankly I do not see us doing very well either barring a candidate here and there. Why invest in such a game then? Why not in say Hockey instead? Our National Game, and a sport in which we were World Champions once. Can you imagine how many Astro-turfs stadium can be erected from 300 m?? 3) This move shall benefit the F1 sports. Even if 5% of India watches the game that will be about 50 million new viewers perhaps as many people as Australia. But what do India gain out of it? Exposure to a completely alien sports and investing in a game where we have little chance of succeeding? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 F1 does not rank in top games amongst Indians. I think we can safely suggest the number of die-hard F1 fans in India would most likely be in single digits(%age wise). How fair it is to then spend 300 millions or thereabouts on such a game and not say Badminton which is far more popular. Doesnt matter. As Malaysia, Japan, Hungary etc. have found out- you dont need a home following to rake in the money. Just the # of die-hard F1 fans willing to travel, the thousands of support crew comming in, staying, eating out, shopping etc. is more than worth its weight in gold. F1 economics is simple- the place where F1 is held, a few hundred thousand people show up ( media + engineers + drivers + pit crews + chicks + fans + corporate money) and spend a lot of money over 3 days, regardless of where the race takes place. All it needs is the course to be either an established one or a well designed one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Doesnt matter. As Malaysia, Japan, Hungary etc. have found out- you dont need a home following to rake in the money. Just the # of die-hard F1 fans willing to travel, the thousands of support crew comming in, staying, eating out, shopping etc. is more than worth its weight in gold. So basically what you are suggesting is to have F1 come to India so non-Indians can have a picnic?\ Ridiculous as that sounds help me understand why does Indian Olympic Association needs to get involved then? Is IOC the same as Department of Tourism? xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 There are a few holes in that theory GP. 1) F1 does not rank in top games amongst Indians. I think we can safely suggest the number of die-hard F1 fans in India would most likely be in single digits(%age wise). How fair it is to then spend 300 millions or thereabouts on such a game and not say Badminton which is far more popular. Indeed the latter is a case in point since Bombay, a traditional badminton powerhouse and the city where F1 track is supposed to be built, does not get any Badminton events to host these days because of lack of infrastructure. 2) India does not rank amongst the top F1 countries, and frankly I do not see us doing very well either barring a candidate here and there. Why invest in such a game then? Why not in say Hockey instead? Our National Game, and a sport in which we were World Champions once. Can you imagine how many Astro-turfs stadium can be erected from 300 m?? 3) This move shall benefit the F1 sports. Even if 5% of India watches the game that will be about 50 million new viewers perhaps as many people as Australia. But what do India gain out of it? Exposure to a completely alien sports and investing in a game where we have little chance of succeeding? xxxx Your argument seems to be based on the rather isolationist view that India should never sell its services to foreigners - but the world economy is based on that very principle - that there are no borders. You need to bear in mind the full picture - i.e. thousands of F1 fans pouring into Mumbai every year from other countries and contributing an unknown sum to the local economy - also TV rights being sold to other countries for millions - millions in advertising, etc. (Not to mention that thousands of jobs I mentioned). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 So basically what you are suggesting is to have F1 come to India so non-Indians can have a picnic?\ Ridiculous as that sounds help me understand why does Indian Olympic Association needs to get involved then? Is IOC the same as Department of Tourism? xxx And to ask another question - why shouldnt they be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 So basically what you are suggesting is to have F1 come to India so non-Indians can have a picnic?\ Hell yes! If the non-Indians picknicking in India for 3 days brings in hundreds of croes of rupees, i say do it every year for the next 100 years! Ridiculous as that sounds help me understand why does Indian Olympic Association needs to get involved then? Is IOC the same as Department of Tourism? I have no facking idea on this..i dont care who gets involved and who builds what...just so long as someone builds an F1 track in India. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Your argument seems to be based on the rather isolationist view that India should never sell its services to foreigners - but the world economy is based on that very principle - that there are no borders. Not sure where did that argument come from. You need to bear in mind the full picture - i.e. thousands of F1 fans pouring into Mumbai every year from other countries and contributing an unknown sum to the local economy - also TV rights being sold to other countries for millions - millions in advertising, etc. (Not to mention that thousands of jobs I mentioned). What is so unique about F1 fans that is sorely missing in say a Hockey or a football or a tennis or any other sports that we play. Why are we so quick in assuming that F1 fans would jump in coming to Bombay but not say a Badminton or a Lawn Tennis or Hockey for that matter? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 What is so unique about F1 fans that is sorely missing in say a Hockey or a football or a tennis or any other sports that we play. $$$$. F1 fans are much richer on average than most other fans...i dunno why but there is something about F1 that attracts the upper-middle class as its fanbase. Why are we so quick in assuming that F1 fans would jump in coming to Bombay but not say a Badminton or a Lawn Tennis or Hockey for that matter? because F1 event is about 3483290845923490284 the scale of a Badminton or Lawn tennis event...both in terms of head-count and the $$ the average joe brings in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator_05 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Not sure where did that argument come from. What is so unique about F1 fans that is sorely missing in say a Hockey or a football or a tennis or any other sports that we play. Why are we so quick in assuming that F1 fans would jump in coming to Bombay but not say a Badminton or a Lawn Tennis or Hockey for that matter? xxxx ...because no one gives a damn about hockey, badminton or tennis ? ESPN STAR have live coverage of F1 every weekend - they don't do the same for badminton or tennis (bar the grand slams, of course). The potential market for F1 in India is far bigger than what you may perceive it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Not sure where did that argument come from. What is so unique about F1 fans that is sorely missing in say a Hockey or a football or a tennis or any other sports that we play. Why are we so quick in assuming that F1 fans would jump in coming to Bombay but not say a Badminton or a Lawn Tennis or Hockey for that matter? xxxx Who cares? As long as the money comes from somewhere, why are you complaining - I really dont understand how you can be picky about where India gets its money from - you should be glad whatever the hell we end up with! Your arguyment that we should go for things that only Indians enjoy is what I am calling isolationist. The world makes money by selling its services to others - and your argument that India shouldnt invest in F1 sounds like idealistic Nehruvian isolationism - the very thing that kept India poor for 50 years. You read Friedman's book - so you know what I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorah_pindu Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Also, as just pointed out - F1 is big money, and nobody gives a **** about field hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Hell yes! If the non-Indians picknicking in India for 3 days brings in hundreds of croes of rupees, i say do it every year for the next 100 years! Personally I find that idea distasteful. I mean I am not a firm beleiver in "Ends justifying the means" - so long as we make money it is all good and all. Still for arguments sake how do you know that we are going to invite such tourists in the first place. As an example if 10,000 English fans visit while Ashes is on, maybe 5000 visits Carribean when a series with West Indies is going, 3000 when a series against South African is on and perhaps 1000 when an Indo-England series is on. It is ridiculous to suggest that 10,000 English fans descend upon West Indies, South Africa and India whenever England play a series. In the same vein why are we assuming that India will attract the same number of crowd as does a Japan, Hungary or Malaysia? By the way just for the record let me say that while I love the idea of having tourists in India, I am no fan of non-Indians coming to India for an event which has little or no relevance to India. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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